Q&A Tactical Deployment - Roy Q&A Thread

[EnGarde]

What can Roy do to bayo or rosa? or any other top tiers really. It's gotten to the point where i literally dont touch any buttons and i just play keep away as soon as I get a lead and if they get a stock lead I usually just play stupid aggressive or lra+start

Info on Rosa:

Spoiler: Rosa MU information

Doc on the Match-Up: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wr59aiRBezYokEWB6y72EPlQSZvs4KpjSCD3Xj_NjO4

Video Analysis on the Match-up:

Info on Bayo:

Spoiler: Bayo MU Information

Master document of currently compiled Roy MU info:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13bl7NfZ_ufMVUp9Rs03Ozz8qHYF3kjPtz494wDekXlM

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Does Roy get more combos out of D-throw when he has a higher amount of rage?

 

[EnGarde]

Does Roy get more combos out of D-throw when he has a higher amount of rage?

dthrow > uair works for a very long time, but doesn't kill.

 

[Krysco]

Uair depresses me. Sweetspot uair can't kill vanilla Shulk on the lower Battlefield platforms at 180% with no rage. I know that Shulk is on the heavier side of the cast, Battlefield has a higher ceiling than most(?) legal stages and that rage could change the outcome but it's a sweetspot and he's already closer to the blastzone than he could be and he's at 180%! And the only reason I know this is because without di (haven't gotten to Shulk yet with the di testings) dthrowing Shield Shulk around 180% can pop him onto the BF platforms and if he runs out of Shield Monado at that point, you can get a kill with usmash.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

dthrow > uair works for a very long time, but doesn't kill.

Are there any other followups? I've been able to connect moves like Fair and Nair after D-Throw is a lot of my matches when I've around 50% rage and it doesn't look like it can be escaped.

Uair depresses me. Sweetspot uair can't kill vanilla Shulk on the lower Battlefield platforms at 180% with no rage. I know that Shulk is on the heavier side of the cast, Battlefield has a higher ceiling than most(?) legal stages and that rage could change the outcome but it's a sweetspot and he's already closer to the blastzone than he could be and he's at 180%! And the only reason I know this is because without di (haven't gotten to Shulk yet with the di testings) dthrowing Shield Shulk around 180% can pop him onto the BF platforms and if he runs out of Shield Monado at that point, you can get a kill with usmash.

Its more of a combo / juggling move than a killing move. Sweetspotted Uair can lead into a ton of stuff like Grab, Jab, and all of Roy's aerials at low to mid percents and the move does linger for quite some time, which is nice for catching airdodges.

 

[Krysco]

Are there any other followups? I've been able to connect moves like Fair and Nair after D-Throw is a lot of my matches when I've around 50% rage and it doesn't look like it can be escaped.

Its more of a combo / juggling move than a killing move. Sweetspotted Uair can lead into a ton of stuff like Grab, Jab, and all of Roy's aerials at low to mid percents and the move does linger for quite some time, which is nice for catching airdodges.

Yeah, it's not a bad move and it certainly has its uses. Doesn't kill directly but can set up into kills. I just found that little discovery very depressing since the idea of a sweetspot is to have more power and Marth's tipper uair can kill earlier than that iirc. Certainly not Roy's most worthless move. That honour probably goes to dair or bthrow.

 

[EnGarde]

Are there any other followups? I've been able to connect moves like Fair and Nair after D-Throw is a lot of my matches when I've around 50% rage and it doesn't look like it can be escaped.

Its more of a combo / juggling move than a killing move. Sweetspotted Uair can lead into a ton of stuff like Grab, Jab, and all of Roy's aerials at low to mid percents and the move does linger for quite some time, which is nice for catching airdodges.

Yeah, it can combo into most other aerials as well. Uair is the easiest. If you can condition DI out on your opponent, you can start setting up for interesting fthrow tech chase options mid percents, such as the fsmash / upsmash / up+b tech chases.

---

Krysco In that situation, why not use bair? In general, Roy's aerials flow for comboing, not killing. Bair has the best killing potential out of all of them, though I do agree that closing stocks while the opponent is in the air is more challenging with Roy.

Roy's uair in particular is better for comboing. It has lower damage output, but better hitbox placement. If you compare the back hitboxes of Roy's falling uair to Marth's you'll notice that Roy HAS hitboxes where Marth just...does not. Marth's has better raw damage output, but to get that tipper generally requires setting it up.

Also remember that rage is really important to test on Roy. His moves, sweet spots in particular, scale with rage a noticeable amount.

 

[Krysco]

I tested utilt, usmash and every aerial with this since I was curious if no matter what, Shulk would lose a stock. Uair was the big one that stuck out to me. I don't recall if the other moves kill or not, save for usmash. I believe utilt doesn't since it's the tip but sweetspot uair was just a surprise to me. Bair works fine and it's actually one of my favourite moves since it has uses at low percents and high percents and is 'balanced' by not being spammable. This all being said, I find it incredibly amusing with what you say in regards to Marth's uair hitboxes and Roy's uair hitboxes. -checks kurogane- yeah, they both start frame 5 but Marth's ends frame 9 to Roy's frame 12. Compare that to Melee

 

[EnGarde]

I tested utilt, usmash and every aerial with this since I was curious if no matter what, Shulk would lose a stock. Uair was the big one that stuck out to me. I don't recall if the other moves kill or not, save for usmash. I believe utilt doesn't since it's the tip but sweetspot uair was just a surprise to me. Bair works fine and it's actually one of my favourite moves since it has uses at low percents and high percents and is 'balanced' by not being spammable. This all being said, I find it incredibly amusing with what you say in regards to Marth's uair hitboxes and Roy's uair hitboxes. -checks kurogane- yeah, they both start frame 5 but Marth's ends frame 9 to Roy's frame 12. Compare that to Melee

Oh how times have changed. ~

@ColdWeatherr this makes me sad pic.twitter.com/r1zvgARs12

— GDFR (@airliftNA) August 21, 2016

 

[Fabulous32]

I was curious what true follow up there are for jab at low percentage? I though jab to grab was a thing, but I was getting jabbed out of the grab by fox when playing online. Is jab into grab ever true?

 

[anas abou]

Whats the optiomal playstyle for roy ? i picked him up because he seems to favor controlled rushdown over bait-n-punish, but my mixup game is weak.

 

[Halcy0n]

What can I do about Megamans lemons? Or some tips about the Roy vs MM matchup?

 

[Fabulous32]

Anyone got tips on edge guards and roys best OOS options?

 

[Phill-Bot]

Any tips for the Zelda match up? Every time I get close, she uses her neutral B. Does anything reliably out space her neutral B?

 

[medofbr]

What can I do about Megamans lemons? Or some tips about the Roy vs MM matchup?

This is one of roy's most annoying MU so to win you have use your shield well, stay on the ground more than when you would when playing other characters and i sometimes like to use the armor on grounded up B to ignore the lemons.

Any tips for the Zelda match up? Every time I get close, she uses her neutral B. Does anything reliably out space her neutral B?

I would try to space it out with sourspot Nair or use DED (preferebly well spaced to start) to get in.

also does anyone know how i can apply dash dancing to improve my game, i learned it but can not seem to apply it.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Can someone teach me a few things about Roy? I want to learn how to DI/SDI his moves properly and what he's weak to. Hyper beat me 3-0 at a tournament, to include one of his kills being a tech-chase FSmash on the corner, which I feel is quite hard to evade.

Also, it's true that all of his aerials are unsafe on shield, correct?

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Can someone teach me a few things about Roy? I want to learn how to DI/SDI his moves properly and what he's weak to. Hyper beat me 3-0 at a tournament, to include one of his kills being a tech-chase FSmash on the corner, which I feel is quite hard to evade.

Also, it's true that all of his aerials are unsafe on shield, correct?

According to this, they shouldn't be unsafe. That being said, the Aerials themselves need to be properly spaced to avoid getting shield grabbed.

 

[Jiac]

Can someone teach me a few things about Roy? I want to learn how to DI/SDI his moves properly and what he's weak to. Hyper beat me 3-0 at a tournament, to include one of his kills being a tech-chase FSmash on the corner, which I feel is quite hard to evade.

Also, it's true that all of his aerials are unsafe on shield, correct?

Yeah, I've seen some of your matches with Hyper. Since, I'm a good soul I'll actually give you tips on how to beat Roy with Ike lol. Even though I really want to see Hyper get some amazing results ;p.

I think the biggest thing with Hyper is that he loves to hit confirm a ton with Roy, since that's usually how Roy gets those really devastating combos. It's far better if you try to evade these/outspace these than just shield them. You don't want to let Roy move all over you, you want to move with Roy. Since Ike has limited OoS options (Jab becomes negligible because Roy has a disjoint) you really don't want to try to get stuck in shield. This is because Roy really loves having the freedom of playing around his opponent's space when they decide to go on the defensive. Our hit confirms are N-Air, F-Air, Up-Air and Jab typically (though a lot of Roy's moves literally combo to anything lol)

You really want to attempt to play more spacing mindgames/traps with him, so you can whiff punish Roy's attempt to N-Air you, or place hitboxes in a way that challenges Roy kind of hard. (When he Dash Dances, space your Down-Tilt in the middle of the Dash Dance range, or Dash Attack to cover his Dash back) Now this may seem hard, since Roy is really fast. However, if you can refuse Hyper from trying to be aggressive (through the means of shutting down his game or establishing some really scary threat that causes him to act a little bit more hesitant), you can begin enforcing your Ike stuff. I'll could analyze one of your matches later, and make a second post for more specific examples and things you could do better with the MU to help you out.

I think your gameplan as Ike, should be to space Roy out and establish zones that Roy should watch out for. Once Hyper starts respecting these zones or gets hit enough where he starts playing more defensively. That's when you should start grabbing him, and bullying him with your range and grab combos.

How you should DI most of Roy's combos are Down and Away typically. Stuff like Jab --> Blazer is not a real kill confirm because you can DI Away to avoid the Blazer (though reacting to the Jab isn't really forseeable) However, I don't think Hyper really uses Jab --> Blazer. He typically does more frame trap stuff, and a lot of incredible combo extensions for some of his kills. Roy super punishes DI-in, you should almost never DI-in unless you're absolutely sure Roy can no longer hit you.

F-Throw Tech Chase to F-Smash in the corner is actually one of the few dumb things with Roy. You kind of need to be smart with your techs, like tech-in-place shield typically beats this option if his timing is off. A lot of the times we prefer to react to roll, but in the corner it's a mathematical 50-50, for DI-in or cover everything for DI-out. But, if he throws you too close to the corner, you could try DI-in completely out and land on ledge/offstage (it might be a little bit better than a 50-50 death situation).

Nah Roy's aerials are safe on shield. A lot of Roy things are actually safe on shield. Unfortunately, our character is plagued by misconceptions D:. Like Roy's N-Air spaced right can be +2 on shield and out of shield grab range.

I hope this helps you out. I'll probably look at one of your matches versus him with a closer eye later to tell you stuff you could do better in the MU or avoid doing.

 

[EnGarde]

and here I thought I was the only one still watching here, lmao. I'll add in a few thoughts. Quoting Jiac, talking to Rango.

Yeah, I've seen some of your matches with Hyper. Since, I'm a good soul I'll actually give you tips on how to beat Roy with Ike lol. Even though I really want to see Hyper get some amazing results ;p.

^ditto

It's far better if you try to evade these/out-space these than just shield them. You don't want to let Roy move all over you, you want to move with Roy.

To this effect, I ask, how well have you implemented perfect pivots? You want to force Roy to slightly mis-space options (not land on shield) and whiff punish, and traditional evasion tools would put you too far away. Can you perfect pivot jab, or perfect pivot dtilt? I'd imagine that kind of micro-spacing tool would net you good results, and the option is low committal, since you can still perfect pivot shield. Perfect pivot away > dtilt on a predicted approach, specifically, sounds pretty scary against me as Roy lol.

How you should DI most of Roy's combos are Down and Away typically. Stuff like Jab --> Blazer is not a real kill confirm because you can DI Away to avoid the Blazer (though reacting to the Jab isn't really forseeable)

Slight correction. There's two points at which you can DI on jab > blazer: the first is on the jab, di out and it won't connect into blazer at kill percent. The second is DI out on the blazer after it hits, in case you miss the DI on the jab (which is common, jab is unreactable). If you DI out on the blazer, it shouldn't kill until fairly late, because DI out prevents you from getting KO'd off the top. This IS reactable. Floaties get KO'd off the side a bit earlier in this scenario because light floaty, but Ike isn't in that category, so less of a worry for you. Remembering to DI out when you only get hit by the last hit of blazer is the only case I personally have had trouble reacting to in the second case, personally.

F-Throw Tech Chase to F-Smash in the corner is actually one of the few dumb things with Roy. You kind of need to be smart with your techs, like tech-in-place shield typically beats this option if his timing is off. A lot of the times we prefer to react to roll, but in the corner it's a mathematical 50-50, for DI-in or cover everything for DI-out. But, if he throws you too close to the corner, you could try DI-in completely out and land on ledge/offstage (it might be a little bit better than a 50-50 death situation).

I'm not sure of the specifics on Ike. He might be floaty enough he can avoid the tech chase scenario if he DI's up on fthrow. Floaties can escape fairly early, mid-weights at reasonable percents as well. You can experiment I think.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

I thought that lost the MU mainly because of Ike's superior disjoint and because how early Counter shuts down Roy's recovery.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I thought that lost the MU mainly because of Ike's superior disjoint and because how early Counter shuts down Roy's recovery.

Recovery mixups, coupled with Roy's speed, makes that difficult. The fact that Counter activates on Frame 9 AND you can be stage spiked makes it a less-than-worthy option.