Swordsmen are all the same?

[DonkaFjord]

It's because there are already 9 Sword fighters, I'm counting Mii Swordfighter, 11 counting Pit and Dark Pit because their melee attacks look like swords. 12 if you want to count Ganondorf (I'm not). Out of those characters, 3 play very similar, two play similar, 2 others play similar, and the rest are clos-ish. Most of them have a counter. It's not as much as you think but to some people it's like half the roster is a sword-fighter. But overall it's because of the clone characters, Marth, Roy, Lucina being the biggest and Ike isn't much of a jump from that.

That is less than a quarter of the roster and I was counting 13/56 (23% of the roster) (Link, Toon Link, Marth, Ike, Roy, Lucina, Robin, Shulk, Meta Knight, Pit, Dark Pit, Mii Swordfighter, Cloud Strife.) I am not a fan of any of the sword fighting characters and how they play, but they definitely have variation in styles and don't feel like half of the roster (although I can't speak for everyone.) If anything the sword fighters share things in common with the other characters from their series more so than other sword fighters in general. I actually have more of a gripe about the amount of human like humanoids than sword fighters, and even then it is a pretty small gripe.

These are the same type of people that said that would be a clone so...

Same with Rosalina and Peach or Bowser and Bowser Jr., etc. But it was never said for Ganondorf and Captain Falcon- I think with speculation you can never really know how the team would implement the characters in the allotted time frame.
I always see speculation threads saying "Character XYZ would be so unique and unlike any other character" or "Character ZXY would just be a clone of so and so" and it drives me crazy because it isn't a guarantee either way- At best it should be "Character ZYX would most likely be unique because..."

 

[Foxus]

I honestly find it difficult to accept the conclusion that swordmen in this game are not at all similar. With the exception of Robin (who reminds me of Harry Potter, if anything), the FE characters have their share of similarities. You can't argue that animation of the counter move between Lucina and Ike are not the same. In general, the differences between them are their modeling and the victory stance. Dark Pit and Pit have more differences than the FE characters, nor Link to Toon Link for that matter.

If you were to main Ike, then decide to take up Lucina, you most likely would be able to make that skill transferable, because they are so similar to each other, adaption of any kind isn't really required.

 

[MrMajora]

I honestly find it difficult to accept the conclusion that swordmen in this game are not at all similar. With the exception of Robin (who reminds me of Harry Potter, if anything), the FE characters have their share of similarities. You can't argue that animation of the counter move between Lucina and Ike are not the same. In general, the differences between them are their modeling and the victory stance. Dark Pit and Pit have more differences than the FE characters, nor Link to Toon Link for that matter.

If you were to main Ike, then decide to take up Lucina, you most likely would be able to make that skill transferable, because they are so similar to each other, adaption of any kind isn't really required.

Though I agree that they're all similar in the fact they all have disjoints, but I wouldn't say that you'd be able to make all the skill transferable though I do agree certain swordsmen are similar enough to atleast be able to play similarly to some extent, though talking about Ike here, Playing Ike is nothing like playing Metaknight or Link/Tink, but. I do agree that most FE characters are similar. though, playing Lucina/Marth compared to Ike is a little different. Spacing is far more important on Marth then Ike, and Grab games are much different as well.

 

[Foxus]

Though I agree that they're all similar in the fact they all have disjoints, but I wouldn't say that you'd be able to make all the skill transferable though I do agree certain swordsmen are similar enough to atleast be able to play similarly to some extent, though talking about Ike here, Playing Ike is nothing like playing Metaknight or Link/Tink, but. I do agree that most FE characters are similar. though, playing Lucina/Marth compared to Ike is a little different. Spacing is far more important on Marth then Ike, and Grab games are much different as well.

I've never smashed as those characters, but Ike to Marth is like Fox to Falco. Marth is faster with less power, and Ike is slower with more power. Lucina and Roy are more like Marth, with Roy only having the difference in fire exerting from his sword. If I'm not mistaken, isn't Ike's sword bigger, therefore requiring more spacing?

 

[MrMajora]

Ike also doesn't have a tipper, and most of his attacks are strong all around, meaning you don't need to space as effectively to get the most out of his moves, whereas Marth is rather lackluster in aside from the Tipper, with his crappy damage/speed lightweight. Roy has shorter reach then Marth in this game on most of his moves, and the obvious strength at the middle/base of his sword, meaning to get the most out of his kit requires a bit more risky spacing, and Roy is much faster both on ground/air then Marth now as well. meaning he can get in much easier and his grab game is much stronger, making a much different playstyle. sure they're all swordsmen. but all three can have be played similarly and differently to varying degrees of success

 

[predator_21476]

I've never smashed as those characters, but Ike to Marth is like Fox to Falco. Marth is faster with less power, and Ike is slower with more power. Lucina and Roy are more like Marth, with Roy only having the difference in fire exerting from his sword. If I'm not mistaken, isn't Ike's sword bigger, therefore requiring more spacing?

Marth and Ike don't have anything in common other than being blue haired swordsman from fire emblem. They play completely differently with very different moves. Other than similar looking forward airs and a counter they don't have much in common.

 

[Foxus]

Marth and Ike don't have anything in common other than being blue haired swordsman from fire emblem. They play completely differently with very different moves. Other than similar looking forward airs and a counter they don't have much in common.

Remember, I've never smashed as these characters, only observations from others using them.

 

[Lady Kuki]

I'm guessing people are complaining because either they're salty that their favorite character hasn't gotten in yet, or because of how samey the sword fighters look. Heck, maybe it's a mixture of both. Time to play devil's advocate!

Characters like Shulk, Ike and Link may fight differently from one another, but they look similar in terms of character design; they're young, attractive anime guys with swords. The amount of clones/semi-clones wielding swords doesn't help either. Technically five of the twelve sword fighters fight similarly to one another. You have Link and Toon Link, and then you have Marth, Lucina and Roy. When you have characters that share the same weapon and bear a similar design, you're bound to get complaints, but here's what I think of it:

Swords are not only a very common weapon in fantasy, but they're also a very common weapon in gaming. There are countless amounts of characters that wield swords, especially in RPGs. You can't say that about other weapons in gaming, such as axes, maces, lances etc. There aren't many iconic RPG characters who use weapons outside of swords, so you're bound to get quite a few sword fighters in Smash. That's just reality. Until Nintendo or any other big company makes a popular, iconic RPG game that stars a character wielding a unique weapon, we're probably going to keep getting more sword fighters and I'm actually okay with that.

Character design wise, you're also bound to get many pretty anime characters. Anime is Japanese, and so is Smash. People like playing as pretty characters, because people like to look at pretty things. In fact, the sword fighters in Smash are probably some of the most popular character types. There's exists a lot of fan art and pairings between the anime sword fighters. Every time I would invite one of my friends over to play Smash, they would pick someone like Ike or Pit. Not everyone is interested in playing as a monster or a cartoony looking character. Gotta keep that in mind. There are still way more cartoony characters than there are anime characters, and I'm sure that there will be plenty more.

Also, so what if the sword fighters look similar and fight similar? There's only so much you can do with character design here. I mean King K. Rool and Wolf aren't exactly original either; you have another overweight reptile and another space animal. However, if they got into Smash, I wouldn't care. Wanna know why? Because I play Smash for the characters, and not for representation. Representation is so subjective; what we may think is iconic and unique, another person may not. "Another animu sword fighter" may not sound interesting to you, but neither does "another fat lizard" and "another space animal". If you classify a character as "another whatever", of course you're not going to find them interesting. You're judging a character simply by how they look, and not on what they can offer. Just wait until they get in the game, and then you can make your judgement there. No need to shoot down a character because he or she isn't the one you wanted.

 

[Kurri ★]

Remember, I've never smashed as these characters, only observations from others using them.

Then stop talking

 

[MrMajora]

Then stop talking

don't be rude, he said that he was only making an observation beforehand.

Foxus if you haven't played much as them though, give them a few rounds. try em out. It'll help you understand.

 

[Foxus]

Then stop talking

I think I can at least offer my input. Maybe learn something in the process.

 

[Kero the Invincible]

I honestly find it difficult to accept the conclusion that swordmen in this game are not at all similar. With the exception of Robin (who reminds me of Harry Potter, if anything), the FE characters have their share of similarities. You can't argue that animation of the counter move between Lucina and Ike are not the same. In general, the differences between them are their modeling and the victory stance. Dark Pit and Pit have more differences than the FE characters, nor Link to Toon Link for that matter.

If you were to main Ike, then decide to take up Lucina, you most likely would be able to make that skill transferable, because they are so similar to each other, adaption of any kind isn't really required.

.........You completely lost me here.

Even the tier list has stopped separating the two Pits, because they always end up right next to each other.

You honestly believe that the exact. same. character. with the exact. same. moves. with only slight mechanical differences in their Neutral B and Side B moves, have less in common than Marth and Ike? That Marth is closer in appearance to Roy, than Pit is to a literal clone of himself? A character that is LITERALLY a palette swap with a frowny face? Sorry if I'm being abrupt, you just really caught me off guard with that.

I accept that there are only so many ways to "swing sword forward on ground" or "swing sword downward in air" but even those animations are different if you look. Also, Counter is basically pivotal to gameplay in any Fire Emblem game, to the point you could almost call it FE's signature move. I find it more "neat" than unimaginative.

Lucina can hardly be called into account in regards to design or roster, because she is literally Marth without a tipper. Basically an alt costume in the same vein as Alph or the Koopalings, given her own slot only for the sake of having her own trophies and her slight sword difference. Roy was brought back after the fact (by popular demand no less) even after he'd been "replaced" by Ike in Brawl. In the vanilla roster, there were basically only 3 Fire Emblem characters, the two most similar being Marth and Ike, who are nonetheless wildly different in play-style.

I also understand that you're only making observations, but just be careful about stating things matter-of-factly or speaking on a character's game-play if you have no first-hand experience with them. As they say, inexperience is no excuse for ignorance. (I'm not saying you're being ignorant, it's just the expression, no offense meant.)

 

[Deleted member 269706]

I never knew that there was a legitimately a group of people who thought that Marth and Ike were semi-clones. That's baffling to me. Silly thing is, even their "similar moves" (counter for instance) are totally different. Marth's counter can be used on reaction whereas Ike's can pretty much only be used as a read. Don't forget, Marth has a tipper effect whereas Ike has the hilt effect (but only on certain moves like Fsmash). Other than these few instances, there is almost nothing alike between these characters. Fall speed, run/walk speed, jump height, character weight, damage output, means of recovery, combos, set-ups, play in the neutral are all totally different. And please, to whoever said it, don't ever compare Marth/Ike to Falcon/Ganon again.

 

[Kurri ★]

don't be rude, he said that he was only making an observation beforehand.

Foxus if you haven't played much as them though, give them a few rounds. try em out. It'll help you understand.

I think I can at least offer my input. Maybe learn something in the process.

And it's clear the observations are wrong. You can offer input, but if it's wrong, it's wrong

 

[Foxus]

And it's clear the observations are wrong. You can offer input, but if it's wrong, it's wrong

Regardless, there's no need to be rude about it.

 

[Mysteltainn]

Marth and Ike feel nothing alike to me, personally. Their weight isn't the same, and heck, due to Marth's Tipper mechanic and all of their specials being different aside from Counter, they don't even play remotely the same. I'm by no means formidable with either, but I've toyed around with the entire cast long enough to know this. I can see if people have gripes about Lucina, Marth and Roy (although at their core, have respectable differences of their own, especially Roy), but Ike and Marth is a very strange hate bandwagon IMO.

As for Cloud, I wasn't sure what to think at the start, but after seeing GameXplain's detailed analysis of him (I misinterpreted and missed a few unique things due to the speed of the normal trailer), I'm content that he will have what it takes to provide another unique experience for Smash. Also, as much as I'm indifferent to Final Fantasy (played a bit of 7 and 10 at a cousin's house and that's it), I have to admit that having such an iconic character in Smash shows that Nintendo is truly spreading their wings diplomatically.

 

[NintendoKnight]

As an Ike main, how dare anyone assert that Ike is a semi-clone of Marth, and especially be compared to the likes of Falcondorf.

The two have nothing in common in regards to gameplay. They are nothing alike, and as mentioned by others, their attributes (weight, speed, damage output, combos, setups, etc.) are all very different. If anything, Roy can be more closely compared to Ike, and even then that's still horrifically reaching.

I've played with all swordsman extensively. None of them play the same. Even the clones (Link-Toon, and Marth-Lucina-Roy) have varying differences that make their goals within each match to be different. Lucina doesn't need to tip like Marth, therefore she can reliably score kills more easily without having to focus on absurdly high percentages or tipping her strikes.

Toon Link is supremely floaty, the polar opposite of Link who just feels like WEIGHT if it wielded weaponry (The added power is a grand bonus, too). And if we mention Roy, can we talk about how much better than Marth he is? Especially since he can combo off of throws, can kill early with super-easy-mode proper spacing, and his movement can dance circles around half the entire cast, including Marth and Lucina.

All in all, the swordsmen are not the same. Even the clones play differently. And there are only like 3 swordsman clones: Toon, Lucina, and Roy.

Cloud will be very different, just like everyone else.

 

[Blade Knight]

The only thing universal among all swordsmen is the down smash which is natural as down smashes are meant to hit on both sides. Even counters have differences at the very least in terms of their animation with the exception of Lucina and Marth who use identical animations for nearly everything. Ike plays nothing like Lucina, Marth, Robin, or Roy and is in fact almost entirely unique in his playstyle with his greatest similarities being down smash and counter.

Shulk plays wholly uniquely from all other sword fighters with basically no similarities, as does Robin and Meta Knight, though MK and Link's Up Smashes are similar.

Link and Toon Link have obvious similarities, but even they have a fair number of difference in terms of animations and especially the properties of their moves, they play fairly differently in experienced hands.

The only reason people have this perception is because of Marth/Lucina/Roy and to a lesser extent Pit and Dark Pit. Marth/Lucina and Pit/Dark Pit are identical to their counterparts movements, with the exception of purple arrows and the garbage can arm, though the animations are still the same. Cloud by comparison looks almost completely unique in terms of his moveset, he has a few similarities (Nair like Shulk's, Down Smash obviously though at least it visually looks different, Up B being akin to Ike) but overall he's animated pretty uniquely. The complaints largely come from people who either don't play any of the swordsmen or who are just wanting to complain about X character not getting into the game.

 

[ForteX]

with a final smash like Ike's.

Spoiler

I've seen this more than I want to see it anymore. Ike's Great Aether was a move invented for Brawl, which as we all remember, came out in 2008. Anyone who calls Ominslash a copy or lookalike of Great Aether needs to look up some footage from the 1997 game "Final Fantasy 7", where Cloud made his first appearance and actually had such a move. Take note of the intense similarities between that move and Great Aether. Remember, Final Fantasy 7 came out ten years before Brawl.

Now, I'm not saying Nintendo wanted to make Ike out to be the Nintendo version of Cloud or anything, but it's just undeniable that Great Aether's animation is a very stylized and graphically adept version of Omnislash. Not to mention that Ominslash ends with an explosion that seems to cover nearly the entire map.

Also, I really feel like it needs to be mentioned: There's only so many ways you can realistically use a sword. It feels like people ignore or forget that, and are more willing to write off fists/unarmed as something less diverse (when technically, the opposite is true). Sure, we can go crazy and have swordfighters who throw their swords like boomerangs and Jedi pull it back to them, or swords that shoot bullets or lasers or what have you, but of the characters who use swords, most are pretty realistic people. The stance they take, the way they attack, all of that is just how you use a sword. It's a little unrealistic to attack in the air with a sword at all, when you think about it. Consider the fact that Roy holds his sword backhanded in this game - they really wanted to make him as different as possible while still keeping that Roy feel.

Shulk also comes to mind (I never really saw anyone go gaga over Xenoblade when it was released for the Wii) and rumor has it Xenoblade was extremely popular in Japan so.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rainfall

If you didn't see much hype for Xenoblade, that can only be attributed to its GameStop exclusivity, which to this day I firmly stand beside the belief that GameStop abused their exclusivity to force false scarcity and drive up prices on the game (but that actually IS a topic for another thread). Xenoblade and niche titles like it are extremely popular, they just aren't day one million sellers.

Aside from that, remember: Smash is a Japanese game made by Japanese developers primarily focusing on a Japanese audience. Roy? Added to Melee to advertise a game that there were no plans to bring to the west. Marth, even, was an out of the blue addition except to only the most hardcore of fans in the west. The same holds for Lucas, and to a lesser extent, Ness. Thanks to the prevalence of the internet and more widespread interest in games that haven't been localized, sure, we know more about Lucas than we had the opportunity to know about Roy, but they're virtually the same story: pandering to a Japanese audience.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Well, I'll keep it a minimum for my sake. My problem with Cloud is well, besides probably my distaste for him specifically, and all these 3rd parties getting in lately (the first few were okay)...
While it is true I have problems with there being many sword users, I at least know they play differently in general, some less different than others (Pit/DP, and Marth/LucinaRoy?). I honestly want characters with different kinds of weapons that aren't just swords (yes, I know there's lots of punch and/or kick types, but that's not what I'm getting into). I surely would be a bit more satisfied with more magic type characters of the sort, and all we have in that category would be Zelda, Palutena, and Robin to the best of my memory (Does Ness/Lucas count?).

Alas, we must remember that not everyone can be pleased in the end.

 

[MrMajora]

Well, I'll keep it a minimum for my sake. My problem with Cloud is well, besides probably my distaste for him specifically, and all these 3rd parties getting in lately (the first few were okay)...
While it is true I have problems with there being many sword users, I at least know they play differently in general, some less different than others (Pit/DP, and Marth/LucinaRoy?). I honestly want characters with different kinds of weapons that aren't just swords (yes, I know there's lots of punch and/or kick types, but that's not what I'm getting into). I surely would be a bit more satisfied with more magic type characters of the sort, and all we have in that category would be Zelda, Palutena, and Robin to the best of my memory (Does Ness/Lucas count?).

Alas, we must remember that not everyone can be pleased in the end.

I would say Ness/Lucas counts as some sort of "Magic" user even though it's not technically Magic, though Honestly, I think we should've had less sword users and more variety of weapons, Spears/Axes idk. atleast one of each. though you could argue certain other characters are Magic users like Rosaluma/Mewtwo. but I do think we could've had more and it be acceptable, though I'm also not against more sword users as long as they aren't the same as another sword user. I dislike Marth/Lucina and Pit/DP for those reasons, but I don't dislike Marth/Roy or Roy/Ike or Ike/Marth or anything like that because they play differently, and can do drastically different things, and even though I think Cloud has similar looking moves to Ike. I believe he'll play a very different way, or atleast differently enough to please most people. but hey, thats just my opinion on the matter, and could be completely wrong.

 

[ForteX]

Even Lucina and Marth play differently, I'm willing to admit that and I absolutely abhor Lucina. It makes a pretty extreme difference for a character to have a sweetspot on every move vs having virtually nothing that can be defined as a sweetspot. No sweetspots mean no sourspots, and that completely changes how you play the character.

I surely would be a bit more satisfied with more magic type characters of the sort, and all we have in that category would be Zelda, Palutena, and Robin

I don't think Palutena is really any more of a magic user than Pit - most of her attacks are physical and since almost all of her specials are just items from Uprising, everything that appears magic is just some form of angel technology. What other popular character would really even be a magic user?

 

[IndigoSSB]

What other popular character would really even be a magic user?

In terms of Ballot top runners, probably Isaac from Golden Sun. I think it's technically Psy power (haven't played his game), but it's properties are very similar to magic. He'd probably play similar to Robin as well, except quicker and with moves.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I don't think Palutena is really any more of a magic user than Pit - most of her attacks are physical and since almost all of her specials are just items from Uprising, everything that appears magic is just some form of angel technology. What other popular character would really even be a magic user?

While many of Palutena's attacks are physical, combining some of her specials (mostly Reflect and Warp), light-based attacks, and the fact that she wields a magic staff can display her as a magic character, though not as much as the ranged magic sense as some wanted her to be.

 

[Mysteltainn]

Well, I'll keep it a minimum for my sake. My problem with Cloud is well, besides probably my distaste for him specifically, and all these 3rd parties getting in lately (the first few were okay)...
While it is true I have problems with there being many sword users, I at least know they play differently in general, some less different than others (Pit/DP, and Marth/LucinaRoy?). I honestly want characters with different kinds of weapons that aren't just swords (yes, I know there's lots of punch and/or kick types, but that's not what I'm getting into). I surely would be a bit more satisfied with more magic type characters of the sort, and all we have in that category would be Zelda, Palutena, and Robin to the best of my memory (Does Ness/Lucas count?).

Alas, we must remember that not everyone can be pleased in the end.

If we're talking "Mages", then yes, I'd consider Ness and Lucas to be in that category, both in their EarthBound / Mother origins and in Smash Bros, along with the others you listed as well. It's no coincidence that I use most of these guys now that I think about it (although I do not use Zelda or Robin), seeing as I appear to gravitate toward Mages / casters in other games out there; interesting.

I don't think Palutena is really any more of a magic user than Pit - most of her attacks are physical and since almost all of her specials are just items from Uprising, everything that appears magic is just some form of angel technology. What other popular character would really even be a magic user?

I consider Palutena to be one, personally. Aside from Zelda, Robin and the Mother kids, she's definitely the next closest thing we have to a Mage in my opinion. Of course, everyone will have a different opinion of what a Mage is, but given Palutena's calculative (F-Smash wind-boxes, U-Smash, Neutral Special and even her Reflect has odd qualities to it compared to others that could be considered caster-like) and defensive nature when using her really give off that feel. Her weapon is also reminiscent of something you'd see on a caster.

 

[DonkaFjord]

If we're talking "Mages", then yes, I'd consider Ness and Lucas to be in that category, both in their EarthBound / Mother origins and in Smash Bros, along with the others you listed as well. It's no coincidence that I use most of these guys now that I think about it (although I do not use Zelda or Robin), seeing as I appear to gravitate toward Mages / casters in other games out there; interesting.

I consider Palutena to be one, personally. Aside from Zelda, Robin and the Mother kids, she's definitely the next closest thing we have to a Mage in my opinion. Of course, everyone will have a different opinion of what a Mage is, but given Palutena's calculative (F-Smash wind-boxes, U-Smash, Neutral Special and even her Reflect has odd qualities to it compared to others that could be considered caster-like) and defensive nature when using her really give off that feel. Her weapon is also reminiscent of something you'd see on a caster.

Would things like the Pokemon be borderline "magical" from a gameplay perspective? I mean they send out elemental bursts of energy for the most part, etc. that have statuses like "electric," "fire," and "darkness" tied to their moves (Then again so does Olimar's Pikmin and Ganondorf/Captain Falcon, etc.)

 

[Mysteltainn]

Would things like the Pokemon be borderline "magical" from a gameplay perspective? I mean they send out elemental bursts of energy for the most part, etc. that have statuses like "electric," "fire," and "darkness" tied to their moves (Then again so does Olimar's Pikmin and Ganondorf/Captain Falcon, etc.)

A good catch indeed. You could certainly say that, yes. Especially since the Pokemon do have abilities that are spell-based (Aura Sphere, Thunder, Flame Thrower and Shadow Ball to name a few) and physical-based (Close Combat and the like) in their games, and possess some of those said skills in Smash Bros; Olimar's Pikmin are an interesting case as well.

As for Ganondorf and Captain Falcon, it's hard to say. There are some people who would consider those moves to be spell-based as well, although I personally don't consider them to be mostly due to their play-styles compared to someone like Zelda, Robin, Palutena etc, but I may just be picky . If Ganondorf were more like his Ocarina of Time or even Pig incarnation and used more of those OoT / ALttP spells / moves and played more of a ranged game with that big trident, then I'd consider it a different story.

 

[DonkaFjord]

A good catch indeed. You could certainly say that, yes. Especially since the Pokemon do have abilities that are spell-based (Aura Sphere, Thunder, Flame Thrower and Shadow Ball to name a few) and physical-based (Close Combat and the like) in their games, and possess some of those said skills in Smash Bros; Olimar's Pikmin are an interesting case as well.

As for Ganondorf and Captain Falcon, it's hard to say. There are some people who would consider those moves to be spell-based as well, although I personally don't consider them to be mostly due to their play-styles compared to someone like Zelda, Robin, Palutena etc, but I may just be picky . If Ganondorf were more like his Ocarina of Time or even Pig incarnation and used more of those OoT / ALttP spells / moves and played more of a ranged game with that big trident, then I'd consider it a different story.

Maybe there are some characters that kinda straddle multiple "tropes" if you will.

 

[a dog]

There is quite a lot of animu present in Smash 4, but hey, that's what Sakurai apparently likes.

Personally I'd take issue with Dark Pit, Lucina, and Roy well before Cloud, since those three are all clones.

 

[DonkaFjord]

There is quite a lot of animu present in Smash 4, but hey, that's what Sakurai apparently likes.

Personally I'd take issue with Dark Pit, Lucina, and Roy well before Cloud, since those three are all clones.

Well those are all clones and we know they were (with the exception of Roy) quickly tossed in at the end as extra fluff. I think the strong presence of anime and human-like characters is simply because the trends of gaming. They don't have the limitations of polygons and sprites that drove the design of older characters (Kirby was a sprite placeholder, Crash Bandicoot was designed without a neck to use less polygons, Pac man was designed with the idea to show action easily in the sprite, etc.) We barely see these non humanoid characters in AAA game titles anymore because the new hardware can render realistic humans (or in Japan's case, more animated anime humans) and fans always thing realism = pushing the graphics capabilities (Look at the Windwaker fiasco back in the day where fans thought they were trying to cut corners graphically not knowing it takes more power to render cel shaded graphics than smooth shading.) I mean the last few E3's we've only seen a couple new non human characters during the press conferences like Yarny, cuphead, knack, etc. (And cuphead is Indie I believe, but it was a featured game.)

People don't realize how a good artstyle can be better than top of the line graphics until they look back and realize that good artstyles look good regardless, but realism for realisim's sake can make a game look aged, but that's going off on a different tangent all together.

TL;DR: Gaming trends are changing, Humans and realism sells because it looks 'realistic,' and we don't have the limitations that guided in the creation of a lot of the classic characters.

 

[SherrdreamZ]

Meta Knight, Link, Toon Link, Ike, Cloud, Shulk are all stand alone unique characters, Marth/Lucina and if you reach Roy are the only Clones Semi-Clones.

I do think they should add more unique fighters that use weapons that are not strictly Swords, There are even some pretty Unique Lance/Axe Lords in Fire Emblem. Even outside of Fire Emblem im sure a few unique weapon style characters would be well received in Smash.

 

[Khao]

Man, if anything, people should stop blaming Smash for having too many sword characters and start complaining about the gaming industry as a whole for creating too many iconic characters with swords.

Seriously, swords have always been kind of a huge thing in video games, is it really so surprising that a compilation of video game characters has several characters that uses them?

Stop lying and just admit that you simply didn't get the character you wanted so you made up a ****ty reason to make your complaints look reasonable.

At least choose a different reason as everyone else. Like, dunno, you could focus on the fact that a ton of characters wear gloves. There's actually more characters with gloves than characters with swords, yet the reasoning for complaining is just as logical. Or you could make a point on the vast majority of the cast being bipedal and that they should add more quadruped characters already. Be more creative with your complaints, people!

 

[a dog]

TL;DR: Gaming trends are changing, Humans and realism sells because it looks 'realistic,' and we don't have the limitations that guided in the creation of a lot of the classic characters.

I don't think it's "realism" that people hate so much as it is the frequency of these characters, esp. online.

It's like the shotos of Street Fighter, except even more frequent.

 

[DonkaFjord]

I don't think it's "realism" that people hate so much as it is the frequency of these characters, esp. online.

It's like the shotos of Street Fighter, except even more frequent.

Oh no, I mean in the game industry as a whole- I mean there are more human characters in Smash since it is pulling from more popular games and the human-centric games are more popular in gaming now then the previous eras of gaming. I was just explaining why Smash newcomers tend to be human where as the first smash was mostly non human characters.

In Smash Bros. I think people hate that at first glance these characters seem very similar (Or in the clones case they are similar.)

 

[NintendoKnight]

I was just explaining why Smash newcomers tend to be human where as the first smash was mostly non human characters.

Wait, what?

DK, Yoshi, Fox, Kirby, Pikachu, Jigglypuff. That's only 6. Which is half the 64 cast, not most.

 

[a dog]

Oh no, I mean in the game industry as a whole- I mean there are more human characters in Smash since it is pulling from more popular games and the human-centric games are more popular in gaming now then the previous eras of gaming. I was just explaining why Smash newcomers tend to be human where as the first smash was mostly non human characters.

In Smash Bros. I think people hate that at first glance these characters seem very similar (Or in the clones case they are similar.)

They hate that they're similar and that they're everywhere online lol. (I don't actually mind either way.)

Also if you'll recall, this is how "realistic" Cloud looked in his game.

 

[DonkaFjord]

Wait, what?

DK, Yoshi, Fox, Kirby, Pikachu, Jigglypuff. That's only 6. Which is half the 64 cast, not most.

I was including Samus since she doesn't come out her suit, which would be the majority. I was also talking strictly from a visual standpoint they are human not the canonical "species" (So link is human, Samus in her suit isn't. This is mostly to show that as the roster has expanded a larger amount of playable fighters are visually humans.) Even out of the humans you have Mario/Luigi/Ness who are more cartoon, caricatured, and in Ness's case a bit chibi-esque.

Anyways I was just trying to make a point not actually state a fact because some may not see Villager/Toon Link/Megaman/Ness/Lucas/G&W as Humanoid but others may and the same goes for Fox/Falco/Wolf/Olimar/etc. It is all subjective, but Smash does have less "creature" or "non human" looking characters in the vein of Yoshi/kirby/pikachu/DK by percentage to their humanoid counterparts.

They hate that they're similar and that they're everywhere online lol. (I don't actually mind either way.)

Also if you'll recall, this is how "realistic" Cloud looked in his game.

I don't think you are understanding what I am trying to say, but I can only put it so many ways.
Your original comment was about "more anime in smash" and more sword fighters and I simply was trying to explain how that is the trend in Japanese gaming as is realistic humans in western gaming as well as the increased power of the consoles not letting character designs be dictated by limitations (Like PS1 Cloud as shown above.) Thats why a lot of the recent characters entering smash from recent games are more humanoid just because, like the industry, Smash grows with the time and technology. Does that make sense? Sometimes I have issues phrasing what I actually mean.

 

[Khao]

Also if you'll recall, this is how "realistic" Cloud looked in his game.

Well, only sometimes, anyway. =P