SWF Global Rules on Inappropriate Material

[Sucumbio]

Preface:

For my first proving grounds debate topic, I would like to examine and deliberate upon a specific portion of the SWF Global Rules v6.0 subsection 3 concerning inappropriate material. I will use this thread as a pallet for bringing it up officially (if it indeed holds water enough to do so).

The facts:

SWF Global Rules v6.0 subsection 3 ends with the following:

... discussion about engaging in drug and/or alcohol use is not allowed, regardless of a user's age or laws in his/her jurisdiction.

The debate:

Should this statement be modified to allow for certain types of discussions that are not necessarily or otherwise inappropriate, but may in fact involve substance use or abuse?

Some things to consider:

- SWF has many members that are minors. Though the rule states age is irrelevant, the reasoning behind the rule may well in fact be strongly influenced by this fact.

- SWF has many boards and threads devoted to the personal lives of its members. User Blogs, for example, has the occasion to sample several inputs by members detailing their personal lives. In this vein one may see that some members could be victims of drug or alcohol abuse, either directly, or indirectly, and would like to (or need to) post about such issues. Similarly, one may wish to respond to a specific post or thread, but that response for validity's sake may require a reference to personal use or abuse of drugs or alcohol.

- The possibility that such a topic is entered into during a conversation or mid-thread, may in essence result in moderated censorship of individual posts, or the locking of said thread.

My position:

The SWF rule on drug/alcohol discussion is too broad. It should be re-worded so that it's ok, for example, for posters who are the victims of abusive (alcoholic, crack addict, et al) parents to be able to talk openly about their problems. It should be broadened to allow for drug addicts or alcoholics to be free to seek therapeutic advice in threads. Let's not kid ourselves, here. UB in particular is ripe with "I'm depressed" topics. That's not the only issue facing teens, now is it? The drug/alcohol policy is limiting the chance for serious discussion/help to be given to those that may be in need. If SWF is going to call itself a true community, then it has to acknowledge the fact that drug and alcohol abuse is indeed a HUGE problem, especially in America, and especially in High School.

The site at the moment has made it clear what they do and do not endorse, however as a community we have a responsibility to help our members. If this were not the case, we wouldn't have tons of threads devoted to just that. Help (and not in the video game sense.) Now if you're suggesting we dumb the site back down to just talking about video games, sure! But that's not the status quo, atm. If a user is to feel "at home" here, they should feel free to seek the guidance and support of their fellow membership in cases of all manner in life, including addiction, abuse from addiction, etc.

 

[Crimson King]

Drug use or under-age alcohol consumption discussion is banned because it is illegal for us to endorse it. Since we could be held liable, we ban it, and any discussions on it.

This rule will not change.

 

[Sucumbio]

Drug use or under-age alcohol consumption discussion is banned because it is illegal for us to endorse it. Since we could be held liable, we ban it, and any discussions on it.

This rule will not change.

... discussion about engaging in drug and/or alcohol use is not allowed, regardless of a user's age or laws in his/her jurisdiction.

Also, the liability of which you speak (for which I cannot actually find the US Title and Code for... yet) is specifically geared towards the sale of illegal narcotics, and underage sale of alcohol.

Ergo, don't make drug deals on the forums. Don't sell booze to minors.

And of course, I'm really more referring to topics that say... are from a user who has an alcoholic father, and who is beating him daily, and following his internal need to reach out, because of the community here, he reaches out to us. And then his topic is summarily locked, because it involved "engaging in drug and/or alcohol use." Or locked because a wiser and older poster such as myself, has keen insight into his dilemma, having been a former abuser of narcotics... etc.

In fact what I just said in that last sentence could arguably be used as grounds to lock THIS thread.

I don't think SWF should endorse or open liability issues for itself, however I do think the wording of that specific rule should be reworded to be more precise, so as to allow -some- discussions to be ok, such as the one I've just illustrated.

This so-called rule is too liberally worded.

Also, and kind of off topic, it is too liberally enforced.

A recent post by Lain:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8881910#post8881910

Now sure he's all big and bad in brawl and what not, but that is no excuse. And HIS post, is exactly what I'd -expect- to be in violation. "I'm drunk as ****."

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I'm not sure I really like this....
Add some meat to your OP, fatten it up. Also, in the OP, state your view then defend it. It makes the whole thing much more debatable.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I don't quite understand what you're driving at. Super Smash Brothers is a game which is rated E for everyone. Thus, the game will attract members that are quite underage. While yes, most members might be old enough to discuss it legally, it is illegal for most to partake in alcohol and illegal for almost all to partake in drugs. Discussing it openly is admitting to an illegal activity that the site doesn't endorse.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

I don't quite understand what you're driving at. Super Smash Brothers is a game which is rated E for everyone. Thus, the game will attract members that are quite underage. While yes, most members might be old enough to discuss it legally, it is illegal for most to partake in alcohol and illegal for almost all to partake in drugs. Discussing it openly is admitting to an illegal activity that the site doesn't endorse.

As a point of clarification: Only the first in the Smash Bros. series was rated E. The other two were rated T.

 

[Teran]

Are we seriously having a debate about site policy?

Shouldn't that be for Forum Support?

 

[Sucumbio]

I'm not sure I really like this....
Add some meat to your OP, fatten it up. Also, in the OP, state your view then defend it. It makes the whole thing much more debatable.

You don't have to like it to debate it. Also, my updating the original post is unnecessary. The debate's already begun, with CK's post, and my reply. If you need clarification, that I can give you. *(and for edification purposes, I will copy this into the OP).

The debate topic is actually quite simple. IMHO, the SWF rule on drug/alcohol discussion is too broad. It should be re-worded so that it's ok, for example, for posters who are the victims of abusive (alcoholic, crack addict, et al) parents to be able to talk openly about their problems. It should be broadened to allow for drug addicts or alcoholics to be free to seek therapeutic advice in threads. Let's not kid ourselves, here. UB in particular is ripe with "I'm depressed" topics. That's not the only issue facing teens, now is it? The drug/alcohol policy is limiting the chance for serious discussion/help to be given to those that may be in need. If SWF is going to call itself a true community, then it has to acknowledge the fact that drug and alcohol abuse is indeed a HUGE problem, especially in America, and especially in High School.

I don't quite understand what you're driving at. Super Smash Brothers is a game which is rated E for everyone. Thus, the game will attract members that are quite underage. While yes, most members might be old enough to discuss it legally, it is illegal for most to partake in alcohol and illegal for almost all to partake in drugs. Discussing it openly is admitting to an illegal activity that the site doesn't endorse.

The site at the moment has made it clear what they do and do not endorse, however as a community we have a responsibility to help our members. If this were not the case, we wouldn't have tons of threads devoted to just that. Help (and not in the video game sense.) Now if you're suggesting we dumb the site back down to just talking about video games, sure! But that's not the status quo, atm. If a user is to feel "at home" here, they should feel free to seek the guidance and support of their fellow membership in cases of all manner in life, including addiction, abuse from addiction, etc.

Are we seriously having a debate about site policy?

Shouldn't that be for Forum Support?

I am holding this here because it's a fair debate topic. I don't wish to hold a debate on the matter with the admins, but if I bring it up to them, I'd of course point back to this thread as evidence to support the position. If this debate should end on the side of "no, not a good idea" then the issue won't even get to the admins, thus not wasting their time.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

You know what happens in those "i'm depressed" topics in UB? Flame wars, baww wars, and maybe a few 'i'm sorry to hear your life sucks' posts. But you know what the SHOULD be doing? Talking to people they may have personal relationship with, or seekign help from a professional. If they have a good relationship with someone on this site, fine, they can take it to another messenger client where it can be discussed freely. Quite frankly, I don't see the website as a whole a place mature enough to handle these types of things.

 

[GoldShadow]

The debate topic is actually quite simple. IMHO, the SWF rule on drug/alcohol discussion is too broad. It should be re-worded so that it's ok, for example, for posters who are the victims of abusive (alcoholic, crack addict, et al) parents to be able to talk openly about their problems. It should be broadened to allow for drug addicts or alcoholics to be free to seek therapeutic advice in threads. Let's not kid ourselves, here. UB in particular is ripe with "I'm depressed" topics. That's not the only issue facing teens, now is it? The drug/alcohol policy is limiting the chance for serious discussion/help to be given to those that may be in need. If SWF is going to call itself a true community, then it has to acknowledge the fact that drug and alcohol abuse is indeed a HUGE problem, especially in America, and especially in High School.

It's a site based around video games. This is not some forum for abuse victims to share their stories. I'm not saying we shouldn't be cold and forbid people from sharing things that have happened to them, but you're turning SWF into some huge social institution that has the responsibility to deal with all the problems and ills of the world. It's not. If people get help for their problems here, that's great. If people share some of their stories (within the limits of the global rules) and it helps them, that's great too. But it's not what this site is geared toward, and there's no need to make some complex changes to the rules for it.

 

[Ryan Ludovic]

I feel the SFW fits the audience. The game's rating is E, the rules should tend to that.

It's a site based around video games. This is not some forum for abuse victims to share their stories. I'm not saying we shouldn't be cold and forbid people from sharing things that have happened to them, but you're turning SWF into some huge social institution that has the responsibility to deal with all the problems and ills of the world. It's not. If people get help for their problems here, that's great. If people share some of their stories (within the limits of the global rules) and it helps them, that's great too. But it's not what this site is geared toward, and there's no need to make some complex changes to the rules for it.

While I agree that the SFW rules are good where they are, if this is simply a site for video game(s), then there is no room for educated debates on current events?

 

[Sucumbio]

You know what happens in those "i'm depressed" topics in UB? Flame wars, baww wars, and maybe a few 'i'm sorry to hear your life sucks' posts. But you know what the SHOULD be doing? Talking to people they may have personal relationship with, or seekign help from a professional. If they have a good relationship with someone on this site, fine, they can take it to another messenger client where it can be discussed freely. Quite frankly, I don't see the website as a whole a place mature enough to handle these types of things.

I submit the reason why those topics end up in Boo hoo posts etc is because people are tired of reading them. Maybe if this particular rule were to be reworded more succinctly, more variety of UB would come to light? I agree completely that users should seek professional help when faced with a medical, psychological or otherwise life threatening issue. But from experience, large forums like this one tend to house a wide variety of users, and boards like UB tend to attract honesty about the self (as what blogs are meant to do), and in today's tech age, many users are more expectant to come to their "home" away from home, than to seek help from "IRL" people.

I agree with your assessment of the general maturity level of SWF members, but as such, I would actually see this as constituting a reason for modification.

... discussion encouraging the use of illegal drugs and/or alcohol is not allowed, regardless of a user's age or laws in his/her jurisdiction.

Simple change in syntax, yet the meaning of the statement is not nearly as general, and yet serves the intended purpose, while also allowing more liberal room for the examples I've mentioned.

It's a site based around video games. This is not some forum for abuse victims to share their stories. I'm not saying we shouldn't be cold and forbid people from sharing things that have happened to them, but you're turning SWF into some huge social institution that has the responsibility to deal with all the problems and ills of the world. It's not. If people get help for their problems here, that's great. If people share some of their stories (within the limits of the global rules) and it helps them, that's great too. But it's not what this site is geared toward, and there's no need to make some complex changes to the rules for it.

Oh make no mistake, I know exactly what this forum is for, and what it's about, and who its geared towards. My position stands on the side of the users that come here for stuff other than that. "This is not some forum for abuse victims to share their stories." "You're turning SWF into some huge social institution." Yeah, this isn't Dear Sally, and no, I'm not turning anything into anything, I'm just holding a debate. True, I may ultimately bring this before the admins (though i doubt it, lol) but that statement was more a means to an end, to basically cancel out any arguments that "this debate doesn't belong here" kinda thing. A debate is a debate, and if done so properly, won't involve emotional responses to my logical statements, nor will it allow for side-stepping the question at hand by ignoring one set of user's content while embracing another.

It's always been apparent to me that this site, despite it's ... wish to be as professional as possible, still falls prey to favoritism. I'll never forget the time I called out a user on his own thread and next thing you know his subtitle changed from Researcher to Moderator. Ha! Anyway, THIS topic is whether or not the specific wording of subsection 3 at the end is too general. If it isn't then why are some posters (myself included) able to talk about that stuff w/no repercussions? Even blatant violations are ignored many times, by mods in the same thread! Ridiculous. This is a classic indication that the rule doesn't fit the status quo, and so should be modified, just like any law as such that needs revision.

I feel the SFW fits the audience. The game's rating is E, the rules should tend to that.

While I agree that the SFW rules are good where they are, if this is simply a site for video game(s), then there is no room for educated debates on current events?

This isn't a site just for video games, there's plenty of non-video game boards (we're in one) and threads and users. There's just no room for threads/posts about drug/alcohol use unless you're Lain or clever at bypassing.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Sucumbio, think of it this way:

Many people here on SWF are below the legal drinking age. Even the ones who claim to be 21 years of age or older could very well be lying. If some teenager is posting about their issues with alcohol addiction, technically Major League Gaming is hosting a discussion on one of their sites about illegal activities. And they don't want that.

 

[GoldShadow]

"This is not some forum for abuse victims to share their stories." "You're turning SWF into some huge social institution." Yeah, this isn't Dear Sally, and no, I'm not turning anything into anything, I'm just holding a debate. True, I may ultimately bring this before the admins (though i doubt it, lol) but that statement was more a means to an end, to basically cancel out any arguments that "this debate doesn't belong here" kinda thing.

Just a side note, "turning into" is an expression here that means you're saying that SWF should be something it is not; not literally that you're changing SWF into a social institution.

 

[Sucumbio]

Sucumbio, think of it this way:

Many people here on SWF are below the legal drinking age. Even the ones who claim to be 21 years of age or older could very well be lying. If some teenager is posting about their issues with alcohol addiction, technically Major League Gaming is hosting a discussion on one of their sites about illegal activities. And they don't want that.

MLG does in fact own smashboards, and so any rules they institute have to be enforced across their spectrum and so here as well at SWF.

And this also explains why the clause states jurisdiction is irrelevant, because underage intoxication is only illegal in some states, whereas in others it's sale to minors that's illegal.

I concede to your point, good sir.

 

[Crimson King]

I should probably reiterate: SWF rules are not for discussion. They are in place to protect us from getting into legal trouble. They will not change. Deal with it.