SWF Create-a-Team 1: Teammate discussion

[ss118]

We are going to need to pick up the pace on this, seeing as now this has turned into a suspect team. Since the test will only last anywhere between 4-8 weeks, unless Manaphy turns U then *yay*. XD

Anyway, poll is in. The results are:

1st: Tail Glow+3 Attacks 12.5
2nd: Rain Support 22
3rd: Tail Glow-Sub+2 Attacks 22.5
4th: Heart Swap 24
5th: Tail Glow-Rest+2 Attacks 33.5
6th: Toxic Stall 34.5
7th: Calm Mind 35
8th: Acid Armor 35.5

Suggest team members that you think should be used with Tail Glow+3 Attack Manaphy.

I think Toxic Spikes would work very well with Manaphy. Roserade can set them up, whether or not as a starter. It can also remove opposing toxic spikes, stop common spinners(starmie/Forretress), and put something to sleep. It can be further combined with a fire type such as Heatran, forming good Fire/Water/Grass defensive combo, as anyone who plays UU will tell you is amazing.

Anyway, please let's get this moving!

 

[Wave⁂]

Spinner is good to get rid of entry hazards. I say Forretress.

 

[supermarth64]

The thing is, I don't think that Toxic Spikes will be helpful here. Take CM LO Raikou for example. It doesn't need Toxic Spikes because there's nowhere to hide from Blissey (behind a Substitute). The same goes for Manaphy. There's nothing to let it outstall Blissey, while Blissey can easily hit it with a Toxic or a Thunder Wave.

Rather, I'd be more worried about other threats: Choice Specs Latias, Choice Scarf Rotom-a, Jolteon (any set really, though Specs and LO are most dangerous). Tyranitar can handle all 3 of them, and a specially defensive set lets it take Surfs, Draco Meteors, and Thunderbolts from Latias and Jolteon.

 

[Wave⁂]

Minor problem with Tyranitar is Sand Stream. Also, offensive Zapdos.

 

[Metal~Mario]

I'm thinking offensively, Electivire could work with Manaphy, since Grass Knot deals such pathetic damage to it-therefore, Thunderbolts would be the primary way of killing it.

Defensively, a Bold Celebi could take any move aimed at Manaphy easily (Thunderbolts, Energy Balls, Earthquakes, etc.) and give it Leech Seed/Rain Dance/Screen Support. Manaphy returns the favor by switching into Ice Beams or Fire Blasts for Celebi.

What exactly are the 3 attacking moves for this Manaphy? Surf/Ice Beam/Grass Knot?

I'm a noob at team building, so disregard if I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[Wave⁂]

Surf / Ice Beam / Grass Knot or HP Electric.

Jolteon also works as an Electric-abosrber. Lanturn can spread status with Thunder Wave, slowing down potential counters.

 

[Metal~Mario]

Surf / Ice Beam / Grass Knot or HP Electric.

Jolteon also works as an Electric-abosrber. Lanturn can spread status with Thunder Wave, slowing down potential counters.

I was considering that too. Maybe an Agility/Sub Passer?

 

[ss118]

Energy Ball over GK, people. Energy Ball's beyyer for hitting other Manaphy and Vaporeon that show up a lot in this metagame

 

[KrazyGlue]

The thing is, I don't think that Toxic Spikes will be helpful here. Take CM LO Raikou for example. It doesn't need Toxic Spikes because there's nowhere to hide from Blissey (behind a Substitute). The same goes for Manaphy. There's nothing to let it outstall Blissey, while Blissey can easily hit it with a Toxic or a Thunder Wave.

Rather, I'd be more worried about other threats: Choice Specs Latias, Choice Scarf Rotom-a, Jolteon (any set really, though Specs and LO are most dangerous). Tyranitar can handle all 3 of them, and a specially defensive set lets it take Surfs, Draco Meteors, and Thunderbolts from Latias and Jolteon.

One other idea is motor drive electivire, who loves to switch in on jolteon or scarf rotom. It also adds physical offence to the team, which at this point only has special offence.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Electivire or Lanturn can abuse the Electric-type attacks and go on the offensive and defensive, respectively.

Roserade provides Grass-type resist while providing entry hazards, but Forretress can do that and spin, so I think Forry > Rose.

-Terywj

 

[Wave⁂]

Manaphy (Tail Glow sweeper)
Forretress (Rapid Spinner)
Tyranitar (Manaphy counter counter)
Electivire / Jolteon (Offensive Electric absorber)
Lanturn (Defensive Electric absorber)


Mixed Infernape with Grass Knot / Energy Ball seems like a problem at the moment.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Latias?

-Terywj

 

[KrazyGlue]

Latias?

-Terywj

You'd have to watch out for HP Ice, but other than that latias is good against nape.

 

[kirbyraeg]

since toxic spikes would have great synergy with manaphy, how about tentacruel to deal with nape?

 

[Pink Reaper]

If you're going to use a spinner, don't use foretress. It's huge Rotom-A bait. I honestly believe the best spinner out there is Foresight Hitmontop. Granted, getting him in is a *****.

 

[Pete278]

If you're going to use a spinner, don't use foretress. It's huge Rotom-A bait. I honestly believe the best spinner out there is Foresight Hitmontop. Granted, getting him in is a *****.

I think I agree with the post above yours, for this team, though, with Tentacruel already being useful to the team, it may as well be the Spinner. Though, a Ground type (most likely Flygon, otherwise Swampert carries on Manaphy's grass weakness) would be fairly necessary to cover up the two Pokemon weak to TBolt.

 

[Pink Reaper]

That leaves a big Rotom-A weakness. Like, even with Flygon/Swampert, the team will have alot of trouble with just that poke.

 

[Pete278]

CB Scizor or TTar or Weavile can solve it with Pursuit, though. Rotom doesn't like taking Pursuits from those guys.

 

[supermarth64]

CB Scizor or TTar or Weavile can solve it with Pursuit, though. Rotom doesn't like taking Pursuits from those guys.

Though burn messed that up pretty badly.

Lum Berry Ttar with Pursuit anyone?

 

[UltiMario]

TTar and Manphy on the same team? Sounds like a disaster to me.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I think I agree with the post above yours, for this team, though, with Tentacruel already being useful to the team, it may as well be the Spinner. Though, a Ground type (most likely Flygon, otherwise Swampert carries on Manaphy's grass weakness) would be fairly necessary to cover up the two Pokemon weak to TBolt.

That leaves a big Rotom-A weakness. Like, even with Flygon/Swampert, the team will have alot of trouble with just that poke.

Charge Beam Jolteon with shadow ball would work great to deal with their dual electric weakness, healing off life orb recoil and outspeeding pretty much all non-scarfed pokemon while threatening a setup with Charge Beam and coverage with tbolt/shadow ball/hp grass(ice).

charge beam+shadow ball would KO a rotom-a switch-in if jolteon gets the +1 boost as rotom switches in, and +1 LO shadow ball would KO a rotom with stealth rock up (94% minimum).

 

[Wave⁂]

Jolteon with Sub, Charge Beam, Shadow Ball, HP Ice / Grass? With Ice, we have a problem with Swampert, with Grass, we don't do so well against Dragons.

 

[kirbyraeg]

nah, jolteon doesn't need sub. Charge Beam, Tbolt, Shadow Ball, HP Grass. Most dragons are part flying though, and being neutral to a +1 LO stab tbolt will fry them, especially with rocks up. the choice of hidden power is basically deciding whether to deal with Flygon/Gliscor or Swampert since tbolt deals with the other dragons...

 

[Circa]

Jolteon with Sub, Charge Beam, Shadow Ball, HP Ice / Grass? With Ice, we have a problem with Swampert, with Grass, we don't do so well against Dragons.

If we use this set I vote HP Grass. This set doesn't like Roar much, which Swampert carries and dragons don't. And the one dragon that sometimes does (although rare) is hit harder by Shadow Ball anyway.

Just my 2c.

EDIT: Half ninja'd. Darn. >.<

 

[KrazyGlue]

DEFINITELY no to tentacruel if the list of pokemon on the previous page is the current team. 4 pokemon with ground weaknesses? No thank you.

 

[ss118]

I like the idea of Latias. It has enough power to force the opponent's hand into going to a dedicated special sponge(not wall, because that term is incorrect for offensive teams[usually]). We can take it a step further by using Specs, enabling it to be able to cripple Blissey on stall teams as well.

I'd like a grounded poison type, as well. I say that because Toxic Spikes are more common in suspect, as well as being a bigger ***** to deal with.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So Roserade then?

-Terywj

 

[Wave⁂]

Sounds good. Roserade has good synergy with Manaphy et all.

 

[Hobobloke]

The amount of pokemon that are immune to toxic spikes has always put me off using them.

 

[Wave⁂]

Pokemon who wall Manaphy:

Blissey

 

[CRASHiC]

Tentacruel too, right?

 

[Wave⁂]

I thought we were going with HP Electric. For BoltBeam.

 

[CRASHiC]

I thought you'd go with the bug move to get psychic and grass coverage.

 

[supermarth64]

I thought you'd go with the bug move to get psychic and grass coverage.

Ice Beam for Latias, other Psychic-type Pokemon get hit with Surf anyway.

 

[CT Chia]

With a Tailglow Manaphy (especially one that isn't going to be able to heal itself), it's going to act best as a crazy awesome sweeper. To do that you need speed. Rain support can help, which in this case a Kingdra could help. Kingdra can help set up rain and take great advantage of the rain itself for obvious reasons.
For this to work we need a Kingdra that can OHKO Ttar (is that possible) and Hippowdown without Rain support, so I guess Hydro Pump is required. These sandstreamers are really going to be the only things you'll come across commonly that will take down your rain, but if Kingdra's already out then they are threatened with being OHKOd.

Besides Kingdra I think a pure speed passing Ninjask would help so much. I've been using this a lot recently and it works wonders. No need to lead with it either and no need to be scared of SR. Run it with Protect, Sub, Xscissor, Baton Pass and holding either a +atk or +satk berry (whatever theres more sweepers of on your team). Make sure its HP is made so it activates the berry at like 1% HP instead of ~25%. This way, even if you bring it in on a SR so it has 50% health, you can still pass +5 spd to someone (without sandstorm damage) by going Protect, Sub, Protect, Sub, Protect, Baton Pass.

Obviously +5 spd (or 6 if you switch in without rocks) is destructive, and especially with Manaphy who can take a hit or two, you switch to the Manaphy, get the Tail Glow, and you've got a +2 satk (or +3 with a +satk berry on Ninjask), +5 spd Manaphy. GG.

The speed passing Ninjask works with so many others (who couldn't use a lil speed?) so you want a reliable backup for when you can't send in Manaphy (if either its dead or the opponent has a counter/moves that Manaphys weak to. Manaphy is weak to Grass and Electric, so then we need a strong hitter that can resist these types, and preferably satk based if we wanna go with the +satk berry on Ninjask.

For this Heatran is an interesting choice. It doesn't resist Electric (but it has some decent SDef) though it's got the .25x to Grass which laughs at any attempts of Grass Knot. It's also got a whole buncha SAtk to go crazy with. Latias is also kind of an amazing option. .5x to Electric and Grass, and it's main weakness of Ice Manaphy resists.

I think Latias and Ninjask work awesome together with Tail Glow Manaphy

 

[Wave⁂]

I'd rather have Gliscor pass Agilities to Manaphy. You don't get screwed over by priority or Taunt (as much), and Gliscor has great type synergy with Manaphy.

 

[ss118]

I personally like Double Dance Kingdra.

Kingdra @ Leftovers
Swift Swim: Adamant
180 HP, 252 Attack, 76 Speed
Waterfall
Outrage
Rain Dance
Dragon Dance

Teams really aren't properly prepared for it. On the Ninjask thing, I just don't like how it's completely dead weight versus stall teams. Not to mention the large amount of priority screws it over, as does SS and hail.

 

[Wave⁂]

Baton Pass Manaphy Support

Jolteon @ Leftovers / Petaya Berry
Timid / Volt Absorb
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
- Agility
- Baton Pass
- Charge Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]

 

[Metal~Mario]

Baton Pass Manaphy Support

Jolteon @ Leftovers / Petaya Berry
Timid / Volt Absorb
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
- Agility
- Baton Pass
- Charge Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]

^This.

I still like Electivire, though, for its physical offense.