Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[JamesDNaux]

I seriously can't see how Snake wouldn't return now outside of Konami outright refusing. And why would they do that?

Not a single argument stands:
"Not Nintendo enough/too much of a Sony character!"
Comes from and is seemingly solely representative of the Final Fantasy game that left Nintendo to be PS exclusive.
"His newest game isn't on Nintendo consoles!"
Aaaaaayyyyy.
"He doesn't fit in!"
Clearly the epitome of a perfect match.
"His games are rated M!"
"You do know I was in Brawl, right?" Also had an E rated GameBoy game.
"But, but, I don't like Snake!"
Sakurai clearly does.


On top of that, he's a highly requested veteran. Easy to bring back, all the reason to do so. So why do I still see "unlikely"?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

And it is entirely possible the Ballot winners WON'T be a new series rep. Infact I think they won't be.


Because, as Awesome stated, they were new and unrepped series. You assume the Ballot winners will be from new series, whereas everything else points to this being rivaled. It's completely 50/50 here.

I'm not assuming anything. I was asking if people thought the two stages could correspond with the two characters. Maybe I should have added onto the question by asking if people thought the two found characters would be characters from new and unrepresented series. Might as well ask now.

Hey guys, do you think the two characters found in the games data will be from new and unrepresented
series, and the two stages found in the games data will go along with them?

 

[Spazzy_D]

This is a sad but true reality of this theory.

It would almost have to be Wolf, as I can't see only one of Trainers Pokemon coming back and the remaining melee cuts lack any sort of significant demand. Ice Climbers I suppose would be possible, but they would likely come with a stage and, let's face it, are VERY unlikely.

It could very well be a newcomer from an existing franchise, though. It's not like Captain Toad or Bandanna Dee would really need to come with a stage, after all.

 

[Shroob]

I seriously can't see how Snake wouldn't return now outside of Konami outright refusing. And why would they do that?

Not a single argument stands:
"Not Nintendo enough/too much of a Sony character!"
Comes from and is seemingly solely representative of the Final Fantasy game that left Nintendo to be PS exclusive.
"His newest game isn't on Nintendo consoles!"
Aaaaaayyyyy.
"He doesn't fit in!"
Clearly the epitome of a perfect match.
"His games are rated M!"
"You do know I was in Brawl, right?" Also had an E rated GameBoy game.
"But, but, I don't like Snake!"
Sakurai clearly does.


On top of that, he's a highly requested veteran. Easy to bring back, all the reason to do so. So why do I still see "unlikely"?

Have you seen Konami lately? Good business decisions aren't up their alley lately.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Have you seen Konami lately? Good business decisions aren't up their alley lately.

They're completely fine with whoring out their franchises for money. If Sakurai wanted him, I'm pretty sure he would be in.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Have you seen Konami lately? Good business decisions aren't up their alley lately.

They would outright refuse free money/advertisement? As stupid as what they're doing is, they still plan to make a profit with the pachinko machines, they don't have to do anything other than license out Snake to Nintendo for a second time.

Just because they're terrible doesn't mean their character shouldn't come back either.

Cough.

 

[Shroob]

They're completely fine with whoring out their franchises for money. If Sakurai wanted him, I'm pretty sure he would be in.

This is true, but I have my doubts about them.

#duckKonami

 

[Naoshi]

Only two possibilies that I feel is holding Snake back:

The fact Konami severed ties with several big companies including Nintendo according to an anonymous source that spoke about Konami's bull****, which in turn is probably what making it difficult to get Snake back. That or Snake was really intended to be a one time thing (guest and all).

There was once that theory that he could've just not been there because of he wasn't a big deal to Nintendo, but as JamesDNaux said, Cloud got in and he's way less Nintendoy than Snake ever was. So that theory is obviously out of the window now.


Bring back Snake!

 

[Shroob]

Another issue I see is he'd have to either have a completely new stage, or have Codecs removed from Shadow Moses Isles.

 

[Z25]

They're completely fine with whoring out their franchises for money. If Sakurai wanted him, I'm pretty sure he would be in.

That and they campaigned for Snake during the ballot.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think Snake's biggest problem is potentially raising the rating.

Because DLC does affect a games rating.

 

[epicmartin7]

Z25 : That was pretty fun! I wasn't on my A-game as I was last time, but I did my best! I see your improving with Mewtwo though. Otherwise, I had a great time.

 

[Luigi The President]

Honestly, anyone who says Snake is SUPER MEGA GRITTY and from THE MOST SERIOUS AND GRITTY SHOOTER EVER IN THE WORLD doesn't know what MGS is.

It's a hilarious series that has tons of comedy in it. It's not light comedy in a dark series, the comedy comes through pretty frequently.

And it's super wacky too; here I am, in a tuxedo and crocodile hat, with my DOG THAT HAS A KNIFE IN IT'S MOUTH, running through EXPLOSIONS that I caused with my HUGE RPG.

I used to be one of those people who didn't realize what MGS really was. Now I've changed!

I think Snake's biggest problem is potentially raising the rating.

Because DLC does affect a games rating.

He would've affected Brawl's rating, would he not have? And Snake's moveset isn't M rated. Keep in mind he does never actually use a gun in his moveset.

 

[Naoshi]

I think Snake's biggest problem is potentially raising the rating.

Because DLC does affect a games rating.

That's true. Wasn't his grab attack move kind of "snapping necks but not really"? I wonder if that's part of the hurdle.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So if there's one more bundle like Ryu and Cloud it's either a new series or 3rd party (which may or may not be one considering Metal Gear)

Inkling & Inkopolis/Urchin Underpass
Chibi-Robo & obligatory tiny stage
Isaac & Lighthouse

Snake & Shadow Moses
Shovel Knight & Plains of Passage
Shantae & Scuttle Town
Simon Belmont & Castle Dracula
Banjo Kazooie & Spiral Mountain
Master Chief & the complete destruction of the suspension of disbelief.

So if we're on the money THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!!! of the following

King K. Rool
Dixie Kong
Princess Daisy
Waluigi
Paper Mario
Wolf
Krystal
Bandana Dee
Ridley
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Geno

I think that just about covers it. The Ice climbers are another kettle of fish so Ill leave them off.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Another issue I see is he'd have to either have a completely new stage, or have Codecs removed from Shadow Moses Isles.

After the trouble Sakurai went through to put Snake in Brawl in the first place?

"Nope, we can't do the Codecs, forget about Snake!"

I think Snake's biggest problem is potentially raising the rating.

Also had an E rated GameBoy game.

How are a bunch of explosives going to raise the rating anyway?

If the "neck snap" is so much of an issue, it's not hard to change a single move.

 

[Luigi The President]

So if there's one more bundle like Ryu and Cloud it;s either a new series or 3rd party (which may or may not be one considering Metal Gear)

Inkling & Inkopolis/Urchin Underpass
Chibi-Robo & obligatory tiny stage
Isaac & Lighthouse

Snake & Shadow Moses
Shovel Knight & Plains of Passage
Shantae & Scuttle Town
Simon Belmont & Castle Dracula
Banjo Kazooie & Spiral Mountain
Master Chief & the complete destruction of the suspension of disbelief.

So if we're on the money THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!!! of the following

King K. Rool
Dixie Kong
Princess Daisy
Waluigi
Wolf
Krystal
Bandana Dee
Ridley

I think that just about covers it

...Daisy and Waluigi over Paper Mario? Sorry to nitpick, but just saying!

But anyway, that's basically most of the list, I'd say. Though I'd like to see Banjo & Kazooie have that theme park from the first game as their stage, always liked it. I'd also remove Banjo and Simon and Shantae and Shovel Knight and I'm terribly biased lmao

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That's true. Wasn't his grab attack move kind of "snapping necks but not really"? I wonder if that's part of the hurdle.

I think it's less that and more the "guns."

It's stupid, but I think that's it...

 

[Naoshi]

So if there's one more bundle like Ryu and Cloud it;s either a new series or 3rd party (which may or may not be one considering Metal Gear)

Inkling & Inkopolis/Urchin Underpass
Chibi-Robo & obligatory tiny stage
Isaac & Lighthouse

Snake & Shadow Moses
Shovel Knight & Plains of Passage
Shantae & Scuttle Town
Simon Belmont & Castle Dracula
Banjo Kazooie & Spiral Mountain
Master Chief & the complete destruction of the suspension of disbelief.

So if we're on the money THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!!! of the following

King K. Rool
Dixie Kong
Princess Daisy
Waluigi
Wolf
Krystal
Bandana Dee
Ridley
Squirtle
Ivysaur

I think that just about covers it

Waluigi is already an AT and Ridley is a boss.

 

[Shroob]

After the trouble Sakurai went through to put Snake in Brawl in the first place?

"Nope, we can't do the Codecs, forget about Snake!"


How are a bunch of explosives going to raise the rating anyway?

If the "neck snap" is so much of an issue, it's not hard to change a single move.

I never said Codecs were keeping Snake out. What I said is that if Snake and SMI got in, Codecs would likely have to be removed since how much larger the roster has grown since Brawl, and considering Cloud is only speaking Japanese, I have a hard time believing they'd re-hire the entire Codec team for every language.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

How are a bunch of explosives going to raise the rating anyway?

If the "neck snap" is so much of an issue, it's not hard to change a single move.

If they are based on realistic weapons, then they defiantly can.

It's stupid, but its the ESRB and the desire to keep an E10 rating. They're playing it super safe.

Remember, we couldn't even get Tharja.

 

[Naoshi]

I think it's less that and more the "guns."

It's stupid, but I think that's it...

I think the weapons might be okay considering they were already toned down for Brawl. They don't really seem to break the E10+ rating, but I could be wrong.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Waluigi is already an AT and Ridley is a boss.

Covering all bases. I went ahead and added Geno to the list too to be sure.

 

[IceBreakerXY]

But what about Wolf? Oh, right you'd lose a bet

And what about Pichu? He is in your avatar after all



I did it turned up nothing

But the King of Hyrule!
His ship sails in the morning after all.
Just send Link if he's not back in the morning.

i really need modif that avi its gonna keep coming back to bite me in the ass.And yeah while the bet is a good 5% i dont want wolf back.The other 95% comes from the fact that i want a new moveset.Wolf brings something slightly different to the table but at the end of day he just isn't an original moveset.Something i crave and want dearly.Snake,ivysaur and squirtle all have such unqiue and diverse movesets that bringing them back even if there vets feels like i'm getting a newcomer because its a new moveset in smash not a semi-moveset like wolf or a 100% cloned moveset like pichu or young link.It new and if we did get a vet back one of those 3.

Plus pichu is sooo cute.

 

[Shroob]

Covering all bases. I went ahead and added Geno to the list too to be sure.

Geno would definitely get a new stage, considering he's 3rd party.

 

[Z25]

Z25 : That was pretty fun! I wasn't on my A-game as I was last time, but I did my best! I see your improving with Mewtwo though. Otherwise, I had a great time.

They were quite fun, the jigglypuff ones were funny. Your good at landing that shoryuken! I also enjoyed the Falcon and kirby match. Didn't expect to be good with kirby in a one on one. But those were fun as well.I saved the Kirby and falcon one. Good Games!

Now as for Snake, I think they could get him in as DLC because it's DLC, and they could get away with someone like him imo. I think the pirate ship theory could happen, but I'm somewhat hoping it isn't true so we can get Snake or another new series. It's possible that Snake could be DLC since Konami is open to, I think Nintendo is more against it then anything else due to how it could affect the game's sales. Although I think when they realize he was so popular they may be more open to the idea of getting him back.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Geno would definitely get a new stage, considering he's 3rd party.

That's a stupidly complicated matter that we've all debated before.

 

[Luigi The President]

I think it's less that and more the "guns."

It's stupid, but I think that's it...

The guns, that don't exist. And he would've boosted Brawls rating, but he didn't, why would he boost it now?

I never said Codecs were keeping Snake out. What I said is that if Snake and SMI got in, Codecs would likely have to be removed since how much larger the roster has grown since Brawl, and considering Cloud is only speaking Japanese, I have a hard time believing they'd re-hire the entire Codec team for every language.

Why not just hire Snake, Campbell, and Otacon? A simple trio. Not gonna cost a million bucks.

 

[Naoshi]

Geno would definitely get a new stage, considering he's 3rd party.

Not necessarily. He belongs to an existing franchise (Mario) that already has plenty of stages. Ryu and Cloud likely had their stages bundled because they needed their home world to go with it.

Why not just hire Snake, Campbell, and Otacon? A simple trio. Not gonna cost a million bucks.

Depending on the VA, the cost of them can be high. Don't assume the costs of game development, it is way trickier and complex than one would think. Plus they're a bit on a tight budget for DLC development I think.

You're also forgetting what he said about multiple languages. Which may be an issue for Codec budget.

 

[Shroob]

The guns, that don't exist. And he would've boosted Brawls rating, but he didn't, why would he boost it now?


Why not just hire Snake, Campbell, and Otacon? A simple trio. Not gonna cost a million bucks.

You have to hire them for every language that Smash is in. It doesn't cost a million bucks for just two, but what about ten?

Cloud is only speaking Japanese, I'm pretty sure we can expect DLC characters to either re-use stock sounds(Lucas), or speak Japanese only(Roy, Mewtwo).

 

[Z25]

That's a stupidly complicated matter that we've all debated before.

And while it's a stretch they could not give Geno one, he is a mario character. although they would probably go with Rawest Forest for him.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I never said Codecs were keeping Snake out. What I said is that if Snake and SMI got in, Codecs would likely have to be removed since how much larger the roster has grown since Brawl, and considering Cloud is only speaking Japanese, I have a hard time believing they'd re-hire the entire Codec team for every language.

You said they'd be an issue. I don't see how they can't just bring back Shadow Moses and either leave it as is/remove the Codecs. Hell, if he tries to call on a new character have the Codec malfunction. Cloud will have an English voice, he's not finished yet.

If they are based on realistic weapons, then they defiantly can.

It's stupid, but its the ESRB and the desire to keep an E10 rating. They're playing it super safe.

Remember, we couldn't even get Tharja.

I've never seen someone pull a mortar out of thin air or fire a portable hand-guided missile, and Sheik even still has a grenade.

Sex appeal is a different beast than what you're saying would hold Snake back. Rear too detailed for E+ rating.

defiantly.

Swamp no.

 

[Shroob]

You said they'd be an issue. I don't see how they can't just bring back Shadow Moses and either leave it as is/remove the Codecs. Hell, if he tries to call on a new character have the Codec malfunction. Cloud will have an English voice, he's not finished yet.

I've never seen someone pull a mortar out of thin air or fire a portable hand-guided missile, and Sheik even still has a grenade.

Sex appeal is a different beast than what you're saying would hold Snake back. Rear too detailed for E+ rating.

Swamp no.

I have a hard time thinking that Cloud isn't finished. He's coming out in, more likely than not, less than a month. If his voice actor hasn't been contacted yet, which he says he has not, he's most likely speaking Japanese only.

 

[Luigi The President]

Not necessarily. He belongs to an existing franchise (Mario) that already has plenty of stages. Ryu and Cloud likely had their stages bundled because they needed their home world to go with it.


Depending on the VA, the cost of them can be high. Don't assume the costs of game development, it is way trickier and complex than one would think. Plus they're a bit on a tight budget for DLC development I think.

You're also forgetting what he said about multiple languages. Which may be an issue for Codec budget.

Once again, if they could do it for Brawl, why can't they do it here? I'm not sure why their budget would be higher now; this would be their first time reprising their roles as the characters in a long time.

I know Snake's VA, David Hayter, would most likely do it for a low price; he's very passionate about VA'ing Snake and said he'd always reprise him.

The cost can be high, yes, but that's just 3 voice actors and only 2 of them with many lines.

You said they'd be an issue. I don't see how they can't just bring back Shadow Moses and either leave it as is/remove the Codecs. Hell, if he tries to call on a new character have the Codec malfunction. Cloud will have an English voice, he's not finished yet.

I've never seen someone pull a mortar out of thin air or fire a portable hand-guided missile, and Sheik even still has a grenade.

Sex appeal is a different beast than what you're saying would hold Snake back. Rear too detailed for E+ rating.

Swamp no.

One thing I'd like to point out is that SSB4 is a LOT more cartoony than the mega gritty Brawl. I would think Snake would, as well, be a bit more cartoony. Doesn't matter much, but his weapons overall would be less mature.

You have to hire them for every language that Smash is in. It doesn't cost a million bucks for just two, but what about ten?

Cloud is only speaking Japanese, I'm pretty sure we can expect DLC characters to either re-use stock sounds(Lucas), or speak Japanese only(Roy, Mewtwo).

That's a good point, but could we not just make the Codec calls shorter and more confined somehow? It'd save money, at least. You bring up a good point, but it's not like Smash is running on a budget of a nickel and a piece of string.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The guns, that don't exist. And he would've boosted Brawls rating, but he didn't, why would he boost it now?

Guns was in quotes.

And Brawl was rated T.

This game is E10.

I've never seen someone pull a mortar out of thin air or fire a portable hand-guided missile, and Sheik even still has a grenade.

That's not the point.

It doesn't matter that there's a level of absurdity there. But I don't think the ESRB cares.

I have a feeling that the fact that it exists at all is what's hurting Snake.

That's really stupid, but I feel that's it.

Sex appeal is a different beast than what you're saying would hold Snake back. Rear too detailed for E+ rating.

Clearly the butt.

Swamp no.

Brb. Committing Sudoku.

 

[Shroob]

Anyway.... @PushDustIn, or anyone with datamining info, does anyone know if the WiiU version matches my theory?

 

[Naoshi]

Once again, if they could do it for Brawl, why can't they do it here? I'm not sure why their budget would be higher now; this would be their first time reprising their roles as the characters in a long time.

I know Snake's VA, David Hayter, would most likely do it for a low price; he's very passionate about VA'ing Snake and said he'd always reprise him.

The cost can be high, yes, but that's just 3 voice actors and only 2 of them with many lines.

No offense but did you read a word of my post? Multiple languages for codec = requiring different VAs = higher budget! Codec can return but I think the chances are very low. If Snake returns, I would not be surprised if they don't bring over the Codec calls.

The DLC budget is way different than the initial gaming budget. You even can tell that the DLC itself has a much tigher budget due to how all the DLC characters thus far didn't even have custom moves. Heck, Palutena's Guidance doesn't have any new lines for all of the DLC characters. I don't see them going out of their way to bring Codec into the DLC.


With all that said though, I think Konami (and POSSIBLY the rating) are Snake's real obstacles. I seriously do hope he returns.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I never said Codecs were keeping Snake out. What I said is that if Snake and SMI got in, Codecs would likely have to be removed since how much larger the roster has grown since Brawl, and considering Cloud is only speaking Japanese, I have a hard time believing they'd re-hire the entire Codec team for every language.

If they hired an English voice actor for Ryu, then they will eventually do the same for Cloud.

Agree about the codecs, though.

 

[Luigi The President]

No offense but did you read a word of my post? Multiple languages for codec = requiring different VAs = higher budget! Codec can return but I think the chances are very low. If Snake returns, I would not be surprised if they don't bring over the Codec calls.

The DLC budget is way different than the initial gaming budget. You even can tell that the DLC itself has a much tigher budget due to how all the DLC characters thus far didn't even have custom moves. Heck, Palutena's Guidance doesn't have any new lines for all of the DLC characters. I don't see them going out of their way to bring Codec into the DLC.


With all that said though, I think Konami (and POSSIBLY the rating) are Snake's real obstacles. I seriously do hope he returns.

I did read, but the different VA thing totally slipped my mind. Brain screwed up for a second. My bad.

You bring up many good points, actually, but I just feel hiring some actors for non-demanding roles some of them would love to reprise isn't that hard to accomplish.

Guns was in quotes.

And Brawl was rated T.

This game is E10.


That's not the point.

It doesn't matter that there's a level of absurdity there. But I don't think the ESRB cares.

I have a feeling that the fact that it exists at all is what's hurting Snake.

That's really stupid, but I feel that's it.


Clearly the butt.


Brb. Committing Sudoku.

The DLC could be rated T. How would that change the base games rating, if one could basically think the DLC doesn't exist?

 

[Chrono.]

Anyway.... @PushDustIn, or anyone with datamining info, does anyone know if the WiiU version matches my theory?

Push doesn't datamine anymore, so your best bet is checking with RTB on Twitter.