Super Meter

[Big-Cat]

I agree with KumaOso; it's not wrong implementing great mechanics from other fighting games into Smash. Adding Super Meters won't make Smash less unique than it already is, only tweak it up a bit.

Personally, I'd like to see something in the manner of Super Meters with Super Combos from the Street Fighter 4 games, as I'd think it could add a lot to Smash with some flashy moves that you can combo into. Rather than being Final Smashes that knock out your opponents, they could be used to rack up great damage with a carefully placed combo.

That addition of EX moves along with a super increases the playstyle diversity. Using SF4 as an example, C. Viper needs her meter to damaging combos by using her EX moves. Ryu mostly benefits from using FADC to combo into Ultra 1. El Fuerte benefits from using it defensively with his EX Dash for a quick get off me escape. Meanwhile, you have Yun who builds meter to use his infamous Genei Jin super.

 

[Ove]

That addition of EX moves along with a super increases the playstyle diversity. Using SF4 as an example, C. Viper needs her meter to damaging combos by using her EX moves. Ryu mostly benefits from using FADC to combo into Ultra 1. El Fuerte benefits from using it defensively with his EX Dash for a quick get off me escape. Meanwhile, you have Yun who builds meter to use his infamous Genei Jin super.

EX moves adds a bit more diversity since they have different properties from the normal special moves. With that, it's just like you said, it can change the playstyle of individual characters. Also, it results in more dynamic matches, since you have to not only master handling your own meter, but also taking your opponents meter into consideration. For example, you don't want to try an overhead on Sagat when he has two bars, risking getting FADC --> Ultra.

More mechanics like these should be encouraged, not hindered due to conservatism. I am advocating more options because I believe it will result in a deeper fighting experience where different playstyles can be applied to individual characters, enabling expressing your personalised playstyle in a form of art.

 

[[Corn]]

EX moves adds a bit more diversity since they have different properties from the normal special moves. With that, it's just like you said, it can change the playstyle of individual characters. Also, it results in more dynamic matches, since you have to not only master handling your own meter, but also taking your opponents meter into consideration. For example, you don't want to try an overhead on Sagat when he has two bars, risking getting FADC --> Ultra.

More mechanics like these should be encouraged, not hindered due to conservatism. I am advocating more options because I believe it will result in a deeper fighting experience where different playstyles can be applied to individual characters, enabling expressing your personalised playstyle in a form of art.

You basically stated that more moves add more options....which is of course true. Changing playstles arent a reason to want things in though.

Its just that Smash is built on easy to preform/understand moves but they all change in properties based on %. In essence thats why so much depth exists, because the moves change so drastically at different percents equating to nearly an infinite moveset in theory. Other fighters have combos and suxh that work at any percent at any time at any health....You see thats what smash strives not to be.

I dont encourage the notion that meter is a good mechanic in a game without health. It will encourage camping, and usually the person attacking gains more.
Then there is the issue of executing said moves. Quarter circles and double button presses are out of the question because it would violate the basic mechanics that smash is designed upon. The gain of meter would have to be completely reworked to fit a game in which damage isnt the best option.

 

[Ove]

You basically stated that more moves add more options....which is of course true. Changing playstles arent a reason to want things in though.

Implementing more options is a good way to add more depth to the playstyle of all characters, making it possible to play a given character in several different ways. It doesn't even have to violate the simplicity of Smash's control scheme; a different version of a special move that is dependent on meter doesn't require any drastical changes.

Its just that Smash is built on easy to preform/understand moves but they all change in properties based on %. In essence thats why so much depth exists, because the moves change so drastically at different percents equating to nearly an infinite moveset in theory. Other fighters have combos and suxh that work at any percent at any time at any health....You see thats what smash strives not to be.

I am aware that Smash is unique in the way the percentage system works, making different combos only possible during the exactly right circumstances. However, why can't a meter system be added to that? If, let's say, you want to do a combo and then finish it off with a powerful Super Combo or EX move, then you have to be aware of the opponents percentage, DI possibilities etc. As usual.

This will still distinguish Smash from other fighters, only adding new options that reward knowledgeable players, like any fighter should do, in my opinion.

I dont encourage the notion that meter is a good mechanic in a game without health. It will encourage camping, and usually the person attacking gains more.
Then there is the issue of executing said moves. Quarter circles and double button presses are out of the question because it would violate the basic mechanics that smash is designed upon. The gain of meter would have to be completely reworked to fit a game in which damage isnt the best option.

You are onto something right here: how can meter-gaining oriented gameplay be implemented to a game that isn't based on health, withouth resulting in encouraging camping? On the other hand, how do you prevent camping in the first place? Camping can be quite rewarding in many fighting games (SF4 included) in a low-level play. However, good players usually work around it. And don't forget that camping only takes you that far; a full meter doesn't gurantee a win.

Regarding execution of special moves, I am not sure. I agree that Smash shouldn't have "special commands" like other fighting games. But surely, I don't think it's a problem for a good game designer.

 

[[Corn]]

Implementing more options is a good way to add more depth to the playstyle of all characters, making it possible to play a given character in several different ways. It doesn't even have to violate the simplicity of Smash's control scheme; a different version of a special move that is dependent on meter doesn't require any drastical changes.


I am aware that Smash is unique in the way the percentage system works, making different combos only possible during the exactly right circumstances. However, why can't a meter system be added to that? If, let's say, you want to do a combo and then finish it off with a powerful Super Combo or EX move, then you have to be aware of the opponents percentage, DI possibilities etc. As usual.

This will still distinguish Smash from other fighters, only adding new options that reward knowledgeable players, like any fighter should do, in my opinion.


You are onto something right here: how can meter-gaining oriented gameplay be implemented to a game that isn't based on health, withouth resulting in encouraging camping? On the other hand, how do you prevent camping in the first place? Camping can be quite rewarding in many fighting games (SF4 included) in a low-level play. However, good players usually work around it. And don't forget that camping only takes you that far; a full meter doesn't gurantee a win.

Regarding execution of special moves, I am not sure. I agree that Smash shouldn't have "special commands" like other fighting games. But surely, I don't think it's a problem for a good game designer.

1. Options don't by default add depth if obvious options are better.
2. What would be the point? Why not just add more chargeable moves?
3. Camping is a very powerful strategy and isnt only an issue at lower levels. If there was a meter current camping would be rewarded even more, thats the issue.

Mainly, whats the point in adding unnecessary tools when all it would do is encourage/reward one of the most hated aspects of competitive games and pretty much only exist to be like other fighters?

 

[Ove]

1. Options don't by default add depth if obvious options are better.
2. What would be the point? Why not just add more chargeable moves?
3. Camping is a very powerful strategy and isnt only an issue at lower levels. If there was a meter current camping would be rewarded even more, thats the issue.

Mainly, whats the point in adding unnecessary tools when all it would do is encourage/reward one of the most hated aspects of competitive games and pretty much only exist to be like other fighters?

I guess you could add some more chargeable moves, but I think it doesn't add more to the playstyle per se, rather improving the ability to use a variety of mindgames. Also, charged moves are difficult to use extensively in your playstyle since they are so slow. The point with meter is to get the option to use moves with improved properties that aren't restricted by slow start-up lag.

I wouldn't say that camping is the issue, rather the fact that new mechanics like the one proposed can change the Smash formula too much. It all depends on how the game designers want to progress with innovative gameplay, adjusting it to Smash and possibly improving it.

I don't say that Smash should copy these game mechanics directly from SF4. However, the game designers could have it as a good inspiration when coming up with something similar.

I am not the one sitting with all the answers on how Smash can progress to a deeper fighting game with a more personalised playstyle, without changing the superb Smash formula too much (what is "too much?"). Instead, I leave that to the talented game designers working with Smash 4 right now.

 

[[Corn]]

I am not the one sitting with all the answers on how Smash can progress to a deeper fighting game with a more personalised playstyle, without changing the superb Smash formula too much (what is "too much?"). Instead, I leave that to the talented game designers working with Smash 4 right now.

What Smash lacks in technical barriers it makes up with extreme depth, of which is probably one of the largest in most fighting games.


We are in no need of even more depth if it interferes with basic designs/principles.

 

[SmashShadow]

There is no disadvantage to having a super meter for a less devastating version of the final smash if you have the ability to switch the meter on and off like final smashes.
It's not that difficult to have the X-button that isn't being used for anything mapped to super and to tell the players that have supers in the game.

 

[Big-Cat]

What Smash lacks in technical barriers it makes up with extreme depth, of which is probably one of the largest in most fighting games.


We are in no need of even more depth if it interferes with basic designs/principles.

Virtua Fighter?