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Super Awesome Wario Advanced Technique and Combo Thread! Defensive Tire Play!!!
- Thread starter Pwneroni
- Start date
Labernash
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2010
- Messages
- 1,674
Here you go, (S!C)! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UmdbvFiJOE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Read the description of the video.
Read the description of the video.
tl;dr--What about D-Throw to buffered Jab? If it works, we might be able to combo into some cool stuff.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
My guess would be that the knockback of jab1 at 120% is too much to reliably follow up with fsmash or fart.
Never mind, I was a fool. I didn't know Jab came out on Frame 8. That explains a loooooooooooot. :/
Lord Chair
Smash Master
From a frame perspective, that'd only mean it'd lose to shield and spotdodge, neither of which are really hard counters to jab (if counters at all).
You know, that's a good point, especially since they're turned around by the D-Throw.
Only if you delay it like crazy. You may as well Jab cancel -> F-Smash, grab, or Waft.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
you should never go straight for jab2 in the first place, the frame advantage on jab allows you to think before you finish the entire move
that does not mean you should never use jab2, in certain situations it can create a very much preferable situation (nb: snake at mid percentages)
that does not mean you should never use jab2, in certain situations it can create a very much preferable situation (nb: snake at mid percentages)
Yesterday I found something interesting about the bike - I tested two things:
1) How to get off the bike in the first turn (on the ground)
and
2) In what direction(s) the tires pop out when the bike is broken
About 1): It seems that during the acceleration, if one tilts (smashes) the control stick backwards and hold it for a very short period of time, one gets of the bike immediately. I tested this a few times and in my older replays that I have saved on my SD-card, I did that a few times. I want to make a video about it, if it isn't widely known by you.
About 2): It seems that Wario's tilts make the tires often land near Wario (either by popping upwards or popping diagonally and land close to Wario). Also, when tossing the bike upwards, it almost always seems that at least one tire will land on the ground without bouncing, and in some cases it will roll fast forward on the ground. I want to investigate more about these "mechanics" of the tires popping out of the bike. It would be really interesting to see how they pop out by different attacks. But one conclusion is 100% sure: the tires pop out differently each time when the bike is broken. I want to make a video about that too.
Expect vids "soon".
1) How to get off the bike in the first turn (on the ground)
and
2) In what direction(s) the tires pop out when the bike is broken
About 1): It seems that during the acceleration, if one tilts (smashes) the control stick backwards and hold it for a very short period of time, one gets of the bike immediately. I tested this a few times and in my older replays that I have saved on my SD-card, I did that a few times. I want to make a video about it, if it isn't widely known by you.
About 2): It seems that Wario's tilts make the tires often land near Wario (either by popping upwards or popping diagonally and land close to Wario). Also, when tossing the bike upwards, it almost always seems that at least one tire will land on the ground without bouncing, and in some cases it will roll fast forward on the ground. I want to investigate more about these "mechanics" of the tires popping out of the bike. It would be really interesting to see how they pop out by different attacks. But one conclusion is 100% sure: the tires pop out differently each time when the bike is broken. I want to make a video about that too.
Expect vids "soon".
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
I figured out a really good way to test moves that break the bike. Crash the bike and smash Dthrow it, and only attack it with the first hit of Nair. If you hit with the second hit, it will break when it lands. If you don't hit it with Nair2, then it will have a teeeeeensy tiny bit of health left! Pretty much anything will break the bike!
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LVIrOb_NWM&list=UU6rVVnMepIfAN--vkMaTLMA&index=2&feature=plcp
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5nLjcI7bnU&list=UU6rVVnMepIfAN--vkMaTLMA&index=1&feature=plcp
(Sorry for bad quality. The second video is a little long.) The first video could fit in the OP, right?
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
Ummm I think they need a bit of work haha. The problem may be that our two explanations conflict. You claim that the instant crash is done by smashing the control stick backwards, while I think that it is done by buffering a turnaround and canceling the acceleration. Which one of us is right? We need a third party to test, it seems.
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
I really like jab2 on battlefield, at mid to low percents you can hit your opponent juuuust right onto the platform where they are vulnerable to follow ups. You can then follow up with a Fair, which may produce some awesome combos!! You can see this in "Man of the Minute" against Falcon at 1:14 and Lucario at 1:42.
I don't know. When I tested it on the Online Practice stage it seemed that when I smashed the joy stick bakwards while Wario accelerated I got of the bike. 0_o It seems also that Wario can get of the bike instantly, without this "acceleration thing". Well, I don't know. I'm not good at explaining things. All I know is that you can get of the bike really quick. =P
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
I think you got it right man 
that's basically what I think, my explanation just went a little more in depth. We both agree that you mash the control stick back during acceleration, but I went a step further and claimed that it needed to be buffered BEFORE the acceleration! It's a small difference, but it seems like the window of opportunity is very small so we need to be exact!
Grrr I don't have the wii for a couple of days.... need to get it back so I can record my video. Looks like you have a 1up on me at this point xzx
that's basically what I think, my explanation just went a little more in depth. We both agree that you mash the control stick back during acceleration, but I went a step further and claimed that it needed to be buffered BEFORE the acceleration! It's a small difference, but it seems like the window of opportunity is very small so we need to be exact!Grrr I don't have the wii for a couple of days.... need to get it back so I can record my video. Looks like you have a 1up on me at this point xzx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAN0pezlhnw
Seriously, TheReflexWonder must explain how he does the teches!!!!!
Seriously, TheReflexWonder must explain how he does the teches!!!!!
| Big D |
Smash Master
I'm forever bad and was looking for an old post and accidentally replied.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
woe upon you for necroing a sticky
wait what
wait what
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
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- 1,065
Yeah, you can mix it up though to keep ROB on his toes. I was messing around with Dthrow to an instant Dash attack against ROB, it worked until t0mmy figured out he could jump out of it. From there, I could predict his jump and try to punish him out of it. If he didn't jump, I could hit him with the Dash attack, and if he did then I could try and predict it. This introduced a bit of a rock paper scissors mechanic into the matchup!
Honestly though I prefer just Fthrowing ROB to try and get him offstage. When ROB is offstage, his options are safe but ultimately can all be shielded, shieldgrab being a solid punish against his Fairs and Nairs.
Honestly though I prefer just Fthrowing ROB to try and get him offstage. When ROB is offstage, his options are safe but ultimately can all be shielded, shieldgrab being a solid punish against his Fairs and Nairs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE3-XSG6TCw&list=UU6rVVnMepIfAN--vkMaTLMA&index=1&feature=plcp
Post it in the OP. How to do: The inputs are similar to Lucas Zap Jump (but I don't know about the frame window though). The bike is on the ground. All you have to do is standing near it and press the jump button + side B at about the same time. You have to press the jump button A LITTLE earlier than the B-button, but for our eyes, it is about at the same time. Wario can even do this when he haven't pulled out his bike yet, but I think the jump is a little lower. This AT is good against a high recovering Snake, for example.
What do you think? In the video is four versions of the Chopper Hop! Hope you all like it! =)
Post it in the OP. How to do: The inputs are similar to Lucas Zap Jump (but I don't know about the frame window though). The bike is on the ground. All you have to do is standing near it and press the jump button + side B at about the same time. You have to press the jump button A LITTLE earlier than the B-button, but for our eyes, it is about at the same time. Wario can even do this when he haven't pulled out his bike yet, but I think the jump is a little lower. This AT is good against a high recovering Snake, for example.
What do you think? In the video is four versions of the Chopper Hop! Hope you all like it! =)
Haha oh yeah, sorry about my overreactions! =/ At first when I saw it, it seemed that it was a super high jump, but I overreacted. Now we can at least punish Snake's high recovery.
Is it just me, or does my video in the OP not work? Also, Pwneroni, while you're at it, you spelled my tag wrong! =P
Is it just me, or does my video in the OP not work? Also, Pwneroni, while you're at it, you spelled my tag wrong! =P
After hard reading opponents on the ledge and getting hit by their aerials, I decided to see what's up with ledge invincibility.
The 21 frames of ledge grab invulnerability on a perfect ledge drop still apply with any other ledge option, so if your ledge jump lasts less than 18 frames (enough to buffer an airdodge), you can safely jump off the ledge and airdodge without fear of retaliation. That's why I kept getting Peach N-Air'd and Snake D-Air'd even though I had the move where they would be before they were there.
Fast-forward to how this pertains to Wario. A perfectly-timed ledge jump (as in, grabbing the ledge and just pressing a Jump command) at <100% damage gives us 6 invincibility frames afterward, so we can start a N-Air, F-Air, or airdodge before we are actually vulnerable. I can see this really improving our ability to get off the ledge safely and out ability to camp opponents through invincibility frames.
The 21 frames of ledge grab invulnerability on a perfect ledge drop still apply with any other ledge option, so if your ledge jump lasts less than 18 frames (enough to buffer an airdodge), you can safely jump off the ledge and airdodge without fear of retaliation. That's why I kept getting Peach N-Air'd and Snake D-Air'd even though I had the move where they would be before they were there.
Fast-forward to how this pertains to Wario. A perfectly-timed ledge jump (as in, grabbing the ledge and just pressing a Jump command) at <100% damage gives us 6 invincibility frames afterward, so we can start a N-Air, F-Air, or airdodge before we are actually vulnerable. I can see this really improving our ability to get off the ledge safely and out ability to camp opponents through invincibility frames.
I wanted to make a new thread for it, because I think it's a big deal, but, there wouldn't really be anything to talk about outside of what I said. I hope this gets noticed and used.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
it was noticed
though honestly theres no point in not making a thread since itll die by itself eventually anyway
though honestly theres no point in not making a thread since itll die by itself eventually anyway
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
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- 1,065
Whoa damn! That is seriously a good thing to know! A great way I use to get back onto the stage is to ledge drop -> bike away from the stage, tilt backwards and then jump off. Wario gets a really great amount of height from this maneuver, moving out of the line of fire up to above the fray. You still have your double jump so you can gain more altitude or use it get around your opponent.
Isn't the smart fart a 4 frame activation? 4 or 5 I think, an invincible fart off the ledge would be such a surprise against someone trying to guard the edge! They would have to fly all the way across the stage to be KO'ed, so they would have to be really light in order to actually die (if they are at a higher percentage, they would probably want to keep their distance). Although if the smart fart is 99.9999999999999999999999999% charged, you could even possibly KO some heavies at a reasonable percent!
Isn't the smart fart a 4 frame activation? 4 or 5 I think, an invincible fart off the ledge would be such a surprise against someone trying to guard the edge! They would have to fly all the way across the stage to be KO'ed, so they would have to be really light in order to actually die (if they are at a higher percentage, they would probably want to keep their distance). Although if the smart fart is 99.9999999999999999999999999% charged, you could even possibly KO some heavies at a reasonable percent!
Mostly-charged Waft is Frame 5, yes.