Sumting Sumting Maifa | Game Over

[Deadbananas]

Deadbananas: Pretty much the only thing that stands out to me about Deadbananas are his reads in #337. I have some problems with these similar to those expressed by Handorin (#360). The strong townread of Sabrar seems somewhat unjustified IMHO and the scumreads are only the very lowest of low-hanging fruit. Scum lean.

I feel I have justified my thoughts on Sabrar well enough for a town read, but if you want more reasoning, I don't believe 3ds is telling the truth as should be evidenced in my list and I don't think a scummate of 3ds would bring that up.

 

[Z25]

No I wasn't in Stellaris although I did hear about it a bit I never read it either. I've never been in a game with Sabra and Bessie as scum together. Actually the only scum bessie game I played Sabrar caught her D1. And the only Scum!Sabrar game I can recall was WoT3 when sabrar was mafia-recruit who never got recruited.


Yeah, I still think so. Scum Ran attacking Xivii who is a strong player and hard to lynch doesn't make sense. Scum Xivii being forced to be reactive and OMGUS could fit, but I think scum Xivii would actually be more resonable here since he'd know Ran is right. Xivii's hard push back feels like town self-righteousness.

Counter point:

Ran was basically god last game, everyone listened to him no questions asked for the most part. Why wouldn’t scum Ran do the same if no one was scum reading him?

Gives scum Ran the potential to make any push they want and not get lynched as we discussed last game actually.

 

[Handorin]

Do you really think I look worse than handorin?

It's not nice to scum shame people. Nice deflection though.

 

[ranmaru]

Z25: No. You don't look worse than Hando. That is the main issue. You are putting up an appearance, similar to sorcerers. You lack the same conviction you had in Oasis Mafia. We have to consider the intent behind players posts, and not solely how bad they look on the surface.

 

[ranmaru]

For example: Your counter point doesn't make sense with your town read of me. (Top town read) What is the purpose in making that post? #602

 

[ranmaru]

Pythag You keep viewing. Can you answer me, and give a reads list?

 

[BoomFrog]

Your memory is terrible. I did get recruited N1 in WoT3 and we were scum together in both Crossover and Unlikely Superheroes

I wasn't counting crossover because your scum play is affected by my scum play. I 100% don't remember unlikely superheroes though. Like I remember it exists, but almost nothing about what happened, or even being scum in that game. Which is odd, because usually my scum games are the more memorable ones. Oh yeah, we had that yin yang thing and it went horribly. I got killed really early and the game was a horrible grind or something. That's why I dumped the memories I guess.

Counter point:

Ran was basically god last game, everyone listened to him no questions asked for the most part. Why wouldn’t scum Ran do the same if no one was scum reading him?

Gives scum Ran the potential to make any push they want and not get lynched as we discussed last game actually.

But Ran didn't do that. He specifically choose to keep a reserved stance. Scum Ran would have tried to replicate Oasis as much as possible and would have been this crazed aggressive guy from the start of D1. Ran knew hanging back would earn him less town cred then he got in Oasis but did it anyway because he thought (I think correctly) that it would let other players reveal more.

 

[Z25]

Z25: No. You don't look worse than Hando. That is the main issue. You are putting up an appearance, similar to sorcerers. You lack the same conviction you had in Oasis Mafia. We have to consider the intent behind players posts, and not solely how bad they look on the surface.

Please point out the difference then. You say that but you can’t put anything to it.

This also isn’t oasis. For example your playing differently then by your logic I should scum read you.

This is also a 16 player game with new faces and if you think you can solve that day one then good for you. But it’s been quite some time since I played that big of a game and I’ve never played them with a bunch or new slots, I can’t put in the same work as I could last game until I can make more definitive reads on these slots.

You say I lack conviction but I’ve bought plenty of points to the table in trying to solve things here, you choose to ignore them though. But again show me what you mean.

For example: Your counter point doesn't make sense with your town read of me. (Top town read) What is the purpose in making that post? #602

So because I’m town reading you I can’t look at things from both perspectives? I have had these same outlooks in previous games. For example when you were dead set on Boom last game, I stood against that and I offered both sides to the 3ds argument. I always keep an open mind.

 

[BoomFrog]

Trisscar What is your opinion of the Ran vs Xivii issue? Who are your bottom 4 picks for scum?

Deadbananas Assuming 3DS isn't a tractable lynch target who would you pick to vote for right now?

Jackrito Still playing the game?

Actually, everyone should just give their bottom 4

 

[Z25]

https://smashboards.com/threads/oasis-mafia-over.503643/

Here’s the last game, while I know it’s a lot the first 32 pages are day one. If anyone wants to go through just my posts and see if they agree or disagree then go ahead, but I really haven’t tried changing my play style this game.

 

[ranmaru]

Mobile right now, but I will show what I mean today.

 

[Z25]

That’s fine I’ll be waiting to check out if there’s any flavoring to your reasoning

 

[Malakandra]

Mala: Had a Town Lean on them in #55. This was mostly based on Mala's early tone and reactions feeling very relaxed and natural. Since then Mala's content has been basically forgettable. I don't recall any particularly strong stances or pushes out of them. Dropping down to nullTown.

My content on Trisscar wasn't a strong push/stance to you?
In regards to Triss, I think you are putting too much emphasis on the VT claim and explanation of why he did that than his weak defenses but I think I've spent enough time on that horse.

 

[Malakandra]

Actually, everyone should just give their bottom 4

Im a bit confused sorry, do you mean 4 most likely to be scum, or people who you think are scummy but not the most scummy?

 

[Pythag]

Pythag You keep viewing. Can you answer me, and give a reads list?

I'm not actually viewing, I've got like 3 computers between work, home and phone, and sometimes I leave it up. I was just playing video games for awhile.

I am aware you want a reads list, that's just a fair amount of work.
I had hoped when I gave my lynch pool, as well as my rebuttle to some of your reads that would have given you an idea, but ah well.

This isn't ordered :

Town:
3DSNinja - I don't see his play different from last game, at all.

Malarkey - His secondary burst of posts (not the page 1 stuff) showed me he was trying to solve

Logic - an entrance that didin't tell us much, but posts that more than made up for it.

Bessie - giving her limited time, her posts are very dense. She's also trying to solve

Spak - great entrance, tonally he comes off as town.

LG - I know I waffled on him before, but I'm putting him in the town category. It feels right :shrug:

Null:
Boom - just waiting till D3. If he's as manipulative as xivii says, him giving me town points feels like he's buddying or pocketing or whatever terminology you use.

Xivii - Gotta see how Ran v Xivii turns out tbh.

Ran - I'm beginning to see things from Xivii's side, and I'm not certain Ran looks that great anymore. I'm trying to figure out who's playing me in this fight.

Sab - I feel like there were things that pinged me, but apparently I remembered them wrong. I put him as null for this.

Z25 - Not good or bad. Very present.

Bananas - I liked his entrance least of anyone. very chummy, without necessarily seeking to do anything (it was RVS so I'm a little lighter on that) and while I appreciate his reads list, it was kinda vague. (for instance he said he agreed with me. about what? I even struggled to think of any points I had made that anyone could agree with)


Scummy:
Handorin - Actually Xivii's vote on Hando made me look at him again. I don't know if he's doing the 'it's so overt, it's covert' but he always seems to be on the sidelines of stuff happening.

Triss - I didn't like that Boom set a trap for triss, and then it turns out triss was setting a trap for boom. That whole thing was pretty sketch to me. (Sorry, Shadow the Hedgehog) That interaction was odd. Whether or not I disagree with his strategy, which I really don't have much of an opinion on, if he believes it to help town, I don't know why he would only practice it for himself, and how it looked like when I questioned him about it, he thought about it AFTER he had enacted it.

Jackrito - purely meta - his play looks identical to previous game. He hasn't necessarily done anything.

Now this is pretty fast and loose, because guess what, I'm having a hard time here.

 

[BoomFrog]

Im a bit confused sorry, do you mean 4 most likely to be scum, or people who you think are scummy but not the most scummy?

4 most likely to be scummy. the bottom 4 people on your list if you made an ordered list of town to scum.

 

[Malakandra]

4 most likely to be scummy. the bottom 4 people on your list if you made an ordered list of town to scum.

in order top is the 4th most likely to the bottom being most likely.
Jack- Hasn't posted in forever and hasn't taken a lot of hard stances or atleast followed up on most of them.
Z25- I've been getting bad vibes from this slot for a while but their reads list helped me place why, they placed people in full town read slots based on meta alone already but had only one scum lean. I get not being able to solve the game quick but being able to strongly claim a few town off of meta and not more than one scum feels like Z is trying to avoid negative attention to hard.
Handorin- His content overall has been very dismissive and not focused on solving the game. Then all of a sudden he is starting to push an idea of already figuring out 3 members of the scum team #540.
Trisscar- I think I've made my points on this one, but of course I will be open to questions.

Edit- just wanted to add to Pythag- Malarkey lol

 

[Jackrito]

Trisscar What is your opinion of the Ran vs Xivii issue? Who are your bottom 4 picks for scum?

Deadbananas Assuming 3DS isn't a tractable lynch target who would you pick to vote for right now?

Jackrito Still playing the game?

Actually, everyone should just give their bottom 4

To a degree being busy with other stuff. Was not expecting this to explode with activity during the night either. I'm just not a day one person in general and being doing the late game in 2 others but now both are over I have more time for this. scumread that if you want I don't mind would not be the first time.

 

[Jackrito]

in order top is the 4th most likely to the bottom being most likely.
Jack- Hasn't posted in forever and hasn't taken a lot of hard stances or atleast followed up on most of them.
Z25- I've been getting bad vibes from this slot for a while but their reads list helped me place why, they placed people in full town read slots based on meta alone already but had only one scum lean. I get not being able to solve the game quick but being able to strongly claim a few town off of meta and not more than one scum feels like Z is trying to avoid negative attention to hard.
Handorin- His content overall has been very dismissive and not focused on solving the game. Then all of a sudden he is starting to push an idea of already figuring out 3 members of the scum team #540.
Trisscar- I think I've made my points on this one, but of course I will be open to questions.

Edit- just wanted to add to Pythag- Malarkey lol

If you are expecting hardstances off me on day one that are not a insane tunnel, you are going to be disappointed. I'm not one for hard stances like most unless I have reason to believe it.

 

[Malakandra]

If you are expecting hardstances off me on day one that are not a insane tunnel, you are going to be disappointed. I'm not one for hard stances like most unless I have reason to believe it.

Alright but I hope you can understand that a lot of scum like to hide under soft stances and the like. and thats why I have you were I do. I look forward to you making a hard stance day 2.

 

[Jackrito]

Alright but I hope you can understand that a lot of scum like to hide under soft stances and the like. and thats why I have you were I do. I look forward to you making a hard stance day 2.

Its part of my scum play and play in general, so I don't blame you for seeing it as a scum move, but just being upfront about it.

 

[Jackrito]

Counter point:

Ran was basically god last game, everyone listened to him no questions asked for the most part. Why wouldn’t scum Ran do the same if no one was scum reading him?

Gives scum Ran the potential to make any push they want and not get lynched as we discussed last game actually.

I actually agree with this, Ran could pretty easily powerwolf this based off how little suspicion he got off anyone, and we have a decent crossover of players.

 

[Handorin]

Handorin- His content overall has been very dismissive and not focused on solving the game. Then all of a sudden he is starting to push an idea of already figuring out 3 members of the scum team #540.

Ah, but you see, every interaction helps me solve the game. And based on your reading of me, I'd say you weren't too focused on my content. Do I blame you too much right now? Not really. It's the easy way out to put the blanket statement on me.

And I posted on why I thought Sabbananas was a thing, thought the points made on Xiivi were good, especially in my current mafia team, and bounced it for more feedback. Me expressing 3 scum reads ("figuring it out" as you put it) isn't any different than the lists anyone else is putting out, and wasn't that sudden.

 

[Z25]

in order top is the 4th most likely to the bottom being most likely.
Jack- Hasn't posted in forever and hasn't taken a lot of hard stances or atleast followed up on most of them.
Z25- I've been getting bad vibes from this slot for a while but their reads list helped me place why, they placed people in full town read slots based on meta alone already but had only one scum lean. I get not being able to solve the game quick but being able to strongly claim a few town off of meta and not more than one scum feels like Z is trying to avoid negative attention to hard.
Handorin- His content overall has been very dismissive and not focused on solving the game. Then all of a sudden he is starting to push an idea of already figuring out 3 members of the scum team #540.
Trisscar- I think I've made my points on this one, but of course I will be open to questions.

Edit- just wanted to add to Pythag- Malarkey lol

That’s a fair choice but again even logic agreed my assessment of him Was accurate to his meta. And you could argue he’s saying that as my mate but I can assure you that’s not the case. It be a bad move to have a teammate make such an obvious connection to me.

Ran and Zen both proved themselves so far to be playing well in the game and without any big shift in their actions from previous games. They both have good points and their debate even furthers my reads from their early game content and shows me they are town. I know both slots very well which is why I could make such a strong read. It’s what I broke down even more when breaking down their debate.

And considering I’ve been actively updating my reads it’s really doesn’t make sense to use my list as your main point of reasoning

 

[Jackrito]

Just backreading through game and in the Xivii Ran battle I see Ran as scum a lot more, his read list felt a bit forced to me, not having any nulls on day one and calling others out on it is insane to me. I just see that as him forcing a reason to scum read someone. I also don't think he townleans me for voting with him when I spend the whole of Oasis doing that. I also think he dropped that scumread on DB so easy for what I felt was a forced readlist to get pressure off himself. A lot of Ran's town reads in this list are super weak and would be null in most games.

I do agree with him though that Z25 is different this game though, even though I was scum last game so knew Z25 was town his posts were so pure to me it made it easy to townread him and not be TMI here not so much.

 

[Malakandra]

Ah, but you see, every interaction helps me solve the game. And based on your reading of me, I'd say you weren't too focused on my content. Do I blame you too much right now? Not really. It's the easy way out to put the blanket statement on me.

And I posted on why I thought Sabbananas was a thing, thought the points made on Xiivi were good, especially in my current mafia team, and bounced it for more feedback. Me expressing 3 scum reads ("figuring it out" as you put it) isn't any different than the lists anyone else is putting out, and wasn't that sudden.

People saying individuals they find scummy is not = to putting together a 3 man scum team. I find it coming out of nowhere because you'd only really pushed DB out of that group before then. You mentioned finding it hard anyone would have a hard time having a strong town read on Sabrar which I agree with, but I have yet to see you push Sabrar or Xivii outside of the DB thing. Could you tell me your opinions on those two? Or atleast on Sabrar since you say you explained why you though sabbananas is a thing but I more saw points against Bananas in that post.

 

[Jackrito]

Also I think that 3DS shadow sounds like Wisp, but I really doubt that he has the time to read this game and babysit someone,so really confused by that. I feel that the reveal of this so early is more likely to come from scum as a way to get heat off their back, and would be a very Wisp thing to do if him. I was bothered by something in my reread which was this

I don't want to reveal my shadow just yet. I do have a plan to introduce them if suspcion turns on me or on Day 3... now I'm gonna get murdered lol.

Why day 3 this makes it sound to me that your role has something special on day 3.

I wouldn't do that. I don't pull gambits... ever. I just give out my thoughts and that's it.

Last game I didn't pull any ridiculous gambits, why would I try that when I already can easily be suspicious?

I also hated this because based off everything this game so far, this is not you playing so I don't care if you like gambits or not your Shadow may do. I don't think anyone thinks this shadow is fake but it does not make you town. Espically if it does what I fear it does.

 

[Jackrito]

Tbf what I think the shadow does could be town also but it is very swingy.

 

[Jackrito]

Vote Ranmaru.

 

[Jackrito]

BoomFrog You ask for me to look elsewhere. I will only compromise to Ninja, Z, and Trisscar.

When did Triss become a strongscum read?

 

[Deadbananas]

Deadbananas Deadbananas Assuming 3DS isn't a tractable lynch target who would you pick to vote for right now?

Triss, as for my bottom 4 they 3ds, Triss, z, and probably bessie but the last one is more null.

 

[BoomFrog]

3DSNinja Your participation would be greatly appreciated. Even if you get a pass D1, if you lurk too much you will eventually get lynched and it's easier to stay current then to try and dig yourself out of a hole later.

 

[Jackrito]

I also see Sabrar, Logic, Lasor, Xivii as my main town reads atm also partly because of meta reasons. If I'm wrong on Ran then I relook at Xivii

Pythag can also be town since he feels pretty similar to last game, I also think Triss is properly town on reread I give him the town read because I do understand what he is doing, but the the way he is doing it is so bad, this being said his play and opening is so different from the mafia game he posted eariler imo.

I have Hando as null atm I feel like his play is not great but get hints of town atm, but I will review that in depth later in the game not intrested in the potential mislynch today.

Bessie I have no real view on atm I would say town based off reread but no real strong view, their posting style of so many things at once reminds me of scum lasor from last game which is a worry, but could just be a style thing and content is ok.

I really don't like how different Boom feels to me this game either like I pointed out eariler

Maka I need to reread also but really not being impressed or remember much that they did just seem to coasting like I was accused of. The fact I got accused of this by them is weird to me.



My bottom 4 atm are Ran DB, Z25 and 3DS.

I likely don't lynch Z25 today though out of those 4 , I would prefer to give him space and see if I can see more of the town style I saw last game,

 

[BoomFrog]

I really don't like how different Boom feels to me this game either like I pointed out eariler

Get used to it I'll be different next game as well. Last game Laser took centerstage before I could, so I let him do his thing. Then Ran was all over the thread. This game Ran was hanging back and Xivii didn't seem like he was going to do a thing, so I decided to get things rolling. I've also got more time for Mafia then I did at the start of last game.

 

[Jackrito]

Not my best readlist if you can even call it that but like I said I'm low efforting this.

 

[Jackrito]

Get used to it I'll be different next game as well. Last game Laser took centerstage before I could, so I let him do his thing. Then Ran was all over the thread. This game Ran was hanging back and Xivii didn't seem like he was going to do a thing, so I decided to get things rolling. I've also got more time for Mafia then I did at the start of last game.

Ok fair I can understand how more time can change style and the want to be centrestage.

 

[3DSNinja]

It's more like Day 3 would be a really good time to get another Town in to help sort out some scum.

I'll try to be more active, school just finished so I'll have a lot more free time on my hands.

 

[ranmaru]

Z Town (with direct stances)

This is possible sure, but your also been completely leading us all over the place.

Ive been Adamant boom was scum yet you wouldn’t change until you couldn’t get an up train going. You also were completely sure of Up being scum. Now you have changed your mind yet again with little reason. I’m sorry but your starting to be a hard sell as town unless you want to give me solid reasons otherwise.

You led us down the ninja train yesterday and today you spent most of it on why we should go for Up and switched last minute. It’s a process I can’t begin to understand a townie doing

Your Maven point here is one to consider. However Maven can make a lot of varying plays, after all even Ninja called you out he got lynch but also for a lot of reasons. It’s quite possible scum Maven saw that as an opportunity for when ninja flipped town, his Ran call out could look better if Maven had a plan to push for your lynch today based on your actions yesterday. I could very easily see a scum Maven who had time on his hands( he mentioned working very long weeks which is likely why he replaced), use actions such as your rapid opinion changes and push on Ninja against you if he was here today. I’d say he’s experienced enough to try and risk it. That is technically conjecture though.

I wouldn’t be shocked if Maven just wanted to have a different opinion to stand out to the town though. It would make some sense.

I kinda of have a bit, I mentioned how part of their reads had a lot less posts but then higher places users, mentioned stuff like the potshots but then not calling out other potshots. While there was a lot to read and I like that they made a reads list to start, it feels lacking in some parts which is odd. I didn’t really get a strong opinion of why those slots should be placed where they were at while reading.

My scum list today is Pokechu because I still think Maven was Scum and I find Pokechu’s entrance poor. They seem to have learned nothing from flavorless about players.

So the fact that Maven was so interested in the UP case then decided to do nothing with it despite the time, doesn’t ping you at least a little?

Your laser points are something we should probably consider at some point to depending on the result of the day phase, as we didn’t really discuss him today.

Although as we close in on deadline the discussion, isn’t probably going to change to greatly as we have covered a lot today. But I really want more from those inactive tomorrow

Also for the record if we Lynch Up I think the same results can be gleaned as from Boom but I think Boom is the scum of the two, making him a more important lynch.

I still think Boom would have a good chance at being scum, but Boom should be lynched first. There’s individual reasons to still suspect scum Boom. He’s had a lot of wine like Up and a lot of Booms posts focus on how they are viewed in their other forum and while they’ve done some more today nothing sticks out as absolutely townie to me.

EBWOP:
ranmaru left out the answer to your question my bad. I voted today because the slot my eyes are set on is a lot less likely to get a train going early unlike Ninja’s who was rising quick. Yesterday I didn’t want it to get to an early lynch especially if it was a miss but today I don’t see it happening. Plus I want more out of Laser’s content.

Possibly, that’s not a good enough reason to not vote Ninja though.

Scum Boom could also theoretically want you to have this same mindset, then get lynched himself and essentially clear ninja. Who would the new playerness going on would look better to town upon Scum Booms flip.

 

[ranmaru]

Z this game (stances)

This is a pretty good point. Thinking more on it, it’s even weirder of a switch when boom was heavy defending someone who looked bad day one last game, here he is going all in on someone who looked sorta of bad.

Which if town boom was willing to defend 3ds ninja who he had no idea of their alignment, it’s a really weird change here to just go all in no questions asked on a lynch when he thought more on them last time.


It’s starting to give me scum vibes and now boom may be trying to get an easy lynch day one. He’s a pretty experienced player so it’s hard to see what his motives could be

While I did say it was possibly intentional, scum could still do the same.

But why drop a wagon you cared about if it actually mattered to you?

This is a much better explanation thank you. This is a pretty unique role so it is likely not a fake claim.
What does your shadow thing of the game so far then?

 

[ranmaru]

I looked through all your posts this game to see where you show you have a stance, a scum read, and these were the only ones I could see. There is quite the difference from your town game in Oasis, which shows you were tunneling on Maven and Boom.