Sumting Sumting Maifa | Game Over

[Pythag]

hedgy is being unwilling to commit.

Has Jack or Logic pinged you for being unsure of where to vote? Why is Triss the only one that takes the heat here?

 

[bessie]

So it appears I was wrong and there’s going to be a good amount of posts in the evening as well as during the day time.

I was hoping my post earlier would draw even a little bit of attention....
Logic is flying way under the radar today.
Time to catch up I guess?

Hi LogicoftheVI! You said you were at work and would post 5 hours or so later. I also don’t post when I am at work for reasons, the obvious one being, well, they are paying me to work. So I don’t see anything that would have drawn undue attention to your post. And you followed up as promised.

You seem to not be interested in an early claim so im curious why this ends with a role fish?

I’ve never heard of a shadow role either. It’s not rolefishing, it was asking for information on a claim.

I was being sarcastic.
do you think a RVS should change with the slightest hint of annoyance from the town? That doesn't feel like the spirit of RVS to me, but I'm willing to be wrong.

This is interesting, that you should attribute annoyance to town. I didn’t ask you to change or remove your vote, I asked you if it was serious. I have seen players voted or lynched in the past because they are hard to read, and possibly a liability at endgame.

xivii wasn't in danger of being wagoned right now, so I wasn't too worried. I was trying to follow Ryker and not be not voting someone.


That's fair. I don't particularly love RVS, but I've also been lambasted in the past for not partaking in it, for partaking in it too slow, blah blah blah. My playstyle doesn't necessarily work, but it's all I have.

Why are you trying to play “right”, or as you think town should play? I asked you this in Flavorless Mafia too. See my post #222 in that game.

Well without a RVS how do you feel about the early game so far?

Any content stick out upon your analysis?

I don’t have anything against RVS, I just have never done it myself (except that game where I was pretending to be Madge, for LaserGuy’s weirdly selective memory).

The stuff that sticks out to me on first read is the stuff I’m quoting and questioning.

bessie Deadbananas @LogicoftheVI Malakandra Trisscar Why aren't you all voting?

Playstyle differences between here and me/my home site, where we didn’t vote early and often. IIRC, this was discussed a lot in the Crossover Mafia game with DGames and xkcd. That you played. And you should remember this from other games you played on xkcd. Give me some time to adjust to my new surroundings.

Why are you having so much trouble coming up with content that you have to ask me a question that you already know the answer to?

His first big read list. If he doesn't have one by near day end or if it is lacking, then we should assume he's scum.

I think that this is not necessarily true. The last game on xkcd, Ranmaru made a big read list (and I thought a good one) toward the end of D1. Unfortunately, the game is no longer accessible for me to link.

 

[Malakandra]

Has Jack or Logic pinged you for being unsure of where to vote? Why is Triss the only one that takes the heat here?

Logic appears to be actively working on going through the game and trying to solve and has been giving his takes. Jack has also had solid takes on other players in the game. Triss IIRC has only role claimed to apparently set a trap, saw boom jump in but only really pushed him mentioning his name once, then went off on some tangent about everyone role claiming before giving up an apparent other trap for boom by voting because he wanted to appease someone? He also states the second trap for boom to be aggressive, presumably for the purpose of catching scum, was not as high a priority as appeasing someone who wanted him to vote.

 

[ranmaru]

bessie This was discussed in crossover but I don't remember the specifics for you or others, but only for sabrar because he was the one I pushed. Why did you format your question in that way?

 

[Sabrar]

Unvote

I think BF's push on Trisscar has merit and Trisscar's reaction to it feels forced. 'Forcing someone out early' just doesn't happen when barely a day has passed, so that reasoning has no base. Claiming later that the best mafia action is precisely what BF has been doing is also very post hoc.

I like Logic's entrance though more explanation from him would be welcome. Could you clarify #173? Why do you think me wanting explanation for Ninja's actions is 'nothing'?

 

[osieorb18]

Votecount 1.4​

I didn't have a title for one of my pieces. Being the young, imaginative, and capricious little thing that I was, I eventually came up with a title on the spot.

Trisscar (5) - Jackrito, Ranmaru, BoomFrog, Handorin, Malakandra
Pythag (2) - 3DSNinja, Xivii
BoomFrog (1) - Trisscar
Handorin (1) - LaserGuy

Not voting: Bessie, Deadbananas, LogicoftheVI, Malakandra, Spak, Z25, Pythag, Sabrar

With 16 players alive, it takes 9 to lynch by majority.

Day 1 Lynch Deadline will be Friday, May 22nd, at 5 PM PST.

Reminder that bolding your votes makes them easier for me to see them, and therefore less likely that I will miss them.

 

[LaserGuy]

Trisscar is making an obvious noob scum mistake and I hope you realize that and vote with me.

When was the last time you saw scum make an unforced claim on D1? Townies love to claim, for good reasons, pointless reasons, stupid reasons. The fact that claiming VT is objectively bad for Town makes this more likely to be coming from Town rather than less.

Why does the new info make you hesitant on your read?

My read at the time was mostly based on tone and I was worried that if another player is coaching him that would affect how I was reading him.

Disagree with using this for your conclusion, you don't have your timelines correct. Ninja claimed role-related mentor in #76, after that Jackrito only replied to my question before Handorin accused them. Before #76 I also assumed that it was an out-of-game issue,

The whole logic of Handorin's post only makes sense in the context of him still believing, at the time of posting, that this was not a role claim.

Logic feels Townie to me.
Boom's tone feels off.

 

[Handorin]

Logic seems to be trying to solve the game and feels town.

Trisscar is being hedgy which is typical of scum IMO.

Letting themselves get bullied into voting allows them an easier out later if questioned and is scum indicative.
Vote Trisscar

Not to mention that both of the names floated were voting for them.

 

[Handorin]

...The whole logic of Handorin's post only makes sense in the context of him still believing, at the time of posting, that this was not a role claim.

Yea, back in my day, people not in the game didn't play the game. Even in the shadows.

 

[Jackrito]

I just want to say as someone who plays on same sites as Triss I think they is a potential culture issue here, his posts are still pretty bad though. I can see him doing this whole trap thing by claiming Vt and playing for reactions I have seen from town and done myself. I just wish he would stop being over the top about things and as I said the game he posted for ref was a terrible example.

 

[BoomFrog]

LaserGuy
Yeah, there no harm in revealing now, my original push on Triss was mostly bluster. My reason I gave you was supposed to be code for "I have no reason, help me pressure vote someone to see what happens". Message obviously not received, but it seems to have worked anyway. My follow up questions have been ligit. What do you think of Trisscar's reaction and my follow ups?

 

[Jackrito]

Like Laser said Boom feels off compared to last game he feels way more agrro early here. In Oasis he was more passive and not sure this time he has jumped on Triss without mercy and keeps pushing it. I'm not sure if this is his normal playstyle or he just is really sure Triss is scum but bothers me a bit.

On that note Laser feels pretty good to me this game the fact he is doing a lot more interactions and not hiding behind big posts is a good look

 

[Jackrito]

Like I said before this is town Logic atm but I need to see if he can keep it up because he has some clear scum tells which creates a issue because he knows them also and has tried to work on them. Dropping bad habits is not easy though so we will see.

 

[ranmaru]

Trisscar I have as null because although it seems like bad town play, Jack says he's not a newbie. Yet twice he's edited his posts, which makes me consider it's likely he is playing dumb. I kept my vote on him because he actually never town telled.

Yet, I think we should look else where right now. I'm looking at Deadbananas. #61 #123 This is the only game content he has in this game. The first one a question, the second is IIOA. He's not voting, or pushing a scumread, and nor does he follow up on his question to 3DS, which shows he's trying to seem like he's doing something when he's not.

 

[ranmaru]

Unvote: Vote: Deadbananas

 

[Handorin]

Trisscar I have as null because although it seems like bad town play, Jack says he's not a newbie. Yet twice he's edited his posts, which makes me consider it's likely he is playing dumb. I kept my vote on him because he actually never town telled.

Yet, I think we should look else where right now. I'm looking at Deadbananas. #61 #123 This is the only game content he has in this game. The first one a question, the second is IIOA. He's not voting, or pushing a scumread, and nor does he follow up on his question to 3DS, which shows he's trying to seem like he's doing something when he's not.

This is a fair point, but also not a *ton* of time has passed irl. Lots of middle of the night posts happened. I dont want to turn into this guy either

 

[ranmaru]

Point is, he doesn't seem to show interest in progressing the game for town. He also isn't reading thoroughly as Xivii already asked the question he asked.

 

[Sabrar]

The whole logic of Handorin's post only makes sense in the context of him still believing, at the time of posting, that this was not a role claim.

Yes, and my point was that at that time Handorin had a legit reason to think that.

 

[ranmaru]

Xivii How confident are you on Pythag right now?

 

[Sabrar]

LaserGuy
Yeah, there no harm in revealing now, my original push on Triss was mostly bluster. My reason I gave you was supposed to be code for "I have no reason, help me pressure vote someone to see what happens".

Now you're doing the same thing you're accusing Trisscar of. His reactions are poor but you giving the same 'it was all a trap' excuse is worse. -5 points from Gryffindor.

 

[Jackrito]

Triss has enough pressure for now so.

Vote: Deadbananas

 

[BoomFrog]

Now you're doing the same thing you're accusing Trisscar of. His reactions are poor but you giving the same 'it was all a trap' excuse is worse. -5 points from Gryffindor.

I think you can see the nuance that there is a difference. I left hints that what I was doing was exaggerated. And a pressure vote to get a reaction is a pretty normal play. And I was just doing it to generate reactions, not necessarily catch Trisscar specifically.

He is trying to justify a VT claim as a "trap" and further explained that every specific thing I've done is exactly what he expected scum to do. That is a ridiculous explanation. Do you really think our actions are equivalent?

Xivii , bessie and... Pythag what do you think of Trisscar?

 

[BoomFrog]

And 3DSNinja , what are your thoughts on Trisscar?

 

[Sabrar]

I think you can see the nuance that there is a difference.

Obviously there is a difference but the underlying principle is the same.

I left hints that what I was doing was exaggerated.

Debatable, if noone caught that that's what you've been doing.

And a pressure vote to get a reaction is a pretty normal play.

I don't think 'lying town' is the new normal.

He is trying to justify a VT claim as a "trap" and further explained that every specific thing I've done is exactly what he expected scum to do. That is a ridiculous explanation.

I have already agreed to these points.

 

[Deadbananas]

Yet, I think we should look else where right now. I'm looking at Deadbananas. #61 #123 This is the only game content he has in this game. The first one a question, the second is IIOA. He's not voting, or pushing a scumread, and nor does he follow up on his question to 3DS, which shows he's trying to seem like he's doing something when he's not.

3ds answered my question kinda. Though you are right that I haven't been particularly active or helpful so far. I've had a few thing come up but I should be free tomorrow to post more.
I can say now I have read through most of the thread so far. Whats caught my attention the most is the situation with boom, Mal, and Triss. People who have played with boom, does he usually tunnel people as scum, or go very aggressive by drawing attention to himself?

 

[Z25]

Like Laser said Boom feels off compared to last game he feels way more agrro early here. In Oasis he was more passive and not sure this time he has jumped on Triss without mercy and keeps pushing it. I'm not sure if this is his normal playstyle or he just is really sure Triss is scum but bothers me a bit.

On that note Laser feels pretty good to me this game the fact he is doing a lot more interactions and not hiding behind big posts is a good look

This is a pretty good point. Thinking more on it, it’s even weirder of a switch when boom was heavy defending someone who looked bad day one last game, here he is going all in on someone who looked sorta of bad.

Which if town boom was willing to defend 3ds ninja who he had no idea of their alignment, it’s a really weird change here to just go all in no questions asked on a lynch when he thought more on them last time.


It’s starting to give me scum vibes and now boom may be trying to get an easy lynch day one. He’s a pretty experienced player so it’s hard to see what his motives could be

 

[LaserGuy]

Going to put this at the top to make sure it is noticed:
osieorb18
Trisscar : Just so you are aware, editing your posts is absolutely not allowed and could easily lead to you being modkilled. If you notice a mistake in one of your posts, make a new post indicating the correction.

I think that this is not necessarily true. The last game on xkcd, Ranmaru made a big read list (and I thought a good one) toward the end of D1. Unfortunately, the game is no longer accessible for me to link.

Are you thinking of the multi-lynch game where Ran was the SK? Ranmaru did post his "game-winning reads" that seemed pretty decent, but I'm pretty sure Xivii promptly (and correctly) busted him anyway.

Trisscar I have as null because although it seems like bad town play, Jack says he's not a newbie. Yet twice he's edited his posts, which makes me consider it's likely he is playing dumb. I kept my vote on him because he actually never town telled.

When did you notice that Trisscar had edited his posts? Why didn't you advise him this was against the rules?

Talk to me about this read. If it's likely he's playing dumb do you think that means he is scum? How does this resolve into null?

This is a fair point, but also not a *ton* of time has passed irl. Lots of middle of the night posts happened. I dont want to turn into this guy either

I find it a little weird that you immediately move to defend Bananas here.

Yes, and my point was that at that time Handorin had a legit reason to think that.

Well, at the time of 3DS' post, the claim had already been made, so I think Handorin ought to have evaluated in that context. That said, Handorin appears to have some specific game meta in mind that is quite different from how I view things, so it's possible you're right in any case.

Will get to Boom/Triss/Sabrar in a subsequent post.

Ranmaru I have at a scum lean at the moment.
Jackrito's content looks okay and I have him as Town lean.
Z25 seems to be spending a lot of time in the weeds rather than gamesolving.

Unvote
Vote: Z25

 

[Z25]

Going to put this at the top to make sure it is noticed:
osieorb18
Trisscar : Just so you are aware, editing your posts is absolutely not allowed and could easily lead to you being modkilled. If you notice a mistake in one of your posts, make a new post indicating the correction.



Are you thinking of the multi-lynch game where Ran was the SK? Ranmaru did post his "game-winning reads" that seemed pretty decent, but I'm pretty sure Xivii promptly (and correctly) busted him anyway.



When did you notice that Trisscar had edited his posts? Why didn't you advise him this was against the rules?

Talk to me about this read. If it's likely he's playing dumb do you think that means he is scum? How does this resolve into null?



I find it a little weird that you immediately move to defend Bananas here.



Well, at the time of 3DS' post, the claim had already been made, so I think Handorin ought to have evaluated in that context. That said, Handorin appears to have some specific game meta in mind that is quite different from how I view things, so it's possible you're right in any case.

Will get to Boom/Triss/Sabrar in a subsequent post.

Ranmaru I have at a scum lean at the moment.
Jackrito's content looks okay and I have him as Town lean.
Z25 seems to be spending a lot of time in the weeds rather than gamesolving.

Unvote
Vote: Z25

I don’t know what you by spending a lot of time in the weeds but I feel I’m contributing fine. I’ve posed question and done some analysis on different behaviors here so far. Obviously I’ll be able to do more when more happens as you saw last game. My day ones are usually never strong because I don’t have good content.

Regardless triss technically can edit posts if they are small edits
#5: DO NOT make more than a small edit to posts unless discussed with the mod. Even if it’s an accidental double post. In particular, DO NOT delete posts. This is a modkillable/reportable offense

But I’ve never seen what the posts originally said so I don’t know.

 

[Deadbananas]

Z, is boom usually an aggressive player as scum? You sound like you played with him before it why I'm asking.

 

[3DSNinja]

Pretty sure Trisscar is townie, and my shadow agrees with me.

"Trisscar is >rand town at this point via his posts and his claim makes it even more likely"

 

[Deadbananas]

Pretty sure Trisscar is townie, and my shadow agrees with me.

"Trisscar is >rand town at this point via his posts and his claim makes it even more likely"

What posts does your shadow mention for this and what's your shadows reasoning. Your own opinion would also be nice.

 

[Z25]

Z, is boom usually an aggressive player as scum? You sound like you played with him before it why I'm asking.

I played with him once in the last game where he was town. But he was way more lax. Had no problems getting lynched at any time, didn’t go big with pushes, and was overall a lot less spoken out against things. So this is a very different boom

 

[ranmaru]

LaserGuy I never cared to state that he was editing his posts. I never see that punished harshly like Ninja editing in the last game, so there is no reason to warn him. Why do you ask this? I have him as null because he can be bad town or scum playing dumb to seem that way. If he is scum he will slip eventually with time. What is your opinion of Deadbananas?

 

[Sabrar]

I have him as null because he can be bad town or scum playing dumb to seem that way. If he is scum he will slip eventually with time.

What makes you so confident? If he's null you should be trying to figure him out, not letting him be.

 

[Z25]

What makes you so confident? If he's null you should be trying to figure him out, not letting him be.

Since your here now,

how do you view Jack so far? I know last time there was a lot of discussion of who was scum more you or jack, although you both had good town metas to me so I’m wondering how you feel about that here.

And a side note I may be able to get my first reads list out sometime today as I have a few thoughts to put out there on the game state as a whole.

I’ve been trying to balance starting a exercises routine and school work but I should be able to get a list done as I want to put down my thoughts as a whole right now

 

[ranmaru]

I disagree. His play should develop naturally, and we can re-evaluate.

 

[LaserGuy]

Anyway I'm Town Vanilla. I'd be amused if that was the general power level of every player here, but it might be unlikely, hard to tell with current description.

Okay, looking at this and subsequent posts (here, here, here), I'm reasonably convinced that Trisscar is being genuine here trying to use his claim to make conversation and meet post quotas. His theoretical analysis of whether this the correct play for Town is extremely flawed, but that doesn't make him scum, just bad Town. That said, I actually agree with BoomFrog that his explanation that he expected his VT claim to attract scum (e.g. here) are more likely retrospective OMGUS explanations rather than being planned (though Jackrito has indicated that such claims have happened before on their other site so it's possible this was a poorly executed, but planned, trap). On the whole, I think the most likely scenario here is Trisscar is Town.

Trisscar : How many games of forum mafia would you say you have played?

It’s starting to give me scum vibes and now boom may be trying to get an easy lynch day one. He’s a pretty experienced player so it’s hard to see what his motives could be

I haven't played a lot with BoomFrog as scum. Most of my analysis on him in the previous game was more or less accurate--he's a flexible player who is hard to pin down, especially early in the game, and often veers into very scummy territory intentionally even as Town. I don't recall him being this aggressive off the top of my head. Maybe bessie has something in her copious notes about our old games. Best guess is that he is trying to compensate for last game where he was given a hard time for being wishy-washy.

I'm putting Boom at nullscum.

LaserGuy I never cared to state that he was editing his posts. I never see that punished harshly like Ninja editing in the last game, so there is no reason to warn him. Why do you ask this?

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. 3DS wasn't punished harshly for editing posts, either by the mod or by the players. However, if a player doesn't know that their posts can't be edited (though apparently they can be in some cases, which, I don't know how this can possibly be enforced but w/e, it's your site), then content could be lost if they make changes retrospectively. This is bad for Town. You also are using this in your read on him, so you clearly consider it relevant information.

I have him as null because he can be bad town or scum playing dumb to seem that way.

If he is scum he will slip eventually with time.

Yes, but saying he's null implies something about the probabilities of these two things. Specifically you said that it is likely he is playing dumb, which presumably means that you believe it is more likely than not. If he's more likely scum pretending to be dumb than bad Town, why do you evaluate him as null?

What is your opinion of Deadbananas?

Hard null. I had completely forgotten they were in the game until you voted for them.

 

[Trisscar]

All of my edits so far have been either spelling corrections or adding new lines

like so

if I forgot to write something. Apologies I was not aware edits were mostly frowned upon, I shall keep that in mind for the future. If spelling edits are still allowed though I'm likely to do those and will tag them with " *edit: a word " in most cases (or rather when I remember to), because spelling mistakes frustrate me and if they end up instead being an entirely different word to what I meant as a result, I like to correct that so it doesn't read oddly or sudo-Freudian.

 

[Trisscar]

I've played one game of forum-maf on the Mafia Colosseum site previously, which has been linked. That is the only game of forum mafia I can recall participating in before this one.

 

[ranmaru]

My point is Ninja wasn't punished so I don't expect Triss to be punished either. I should have said possibly scum and not likely. I am not confident Trisscar would flip scum which is why I am not on him at the moment, nor do I have confidence in him being scum. Otherwise I would not have stated that he had not town telled either.

From the beginning, my vote on Triss was RVS bandwagoning to see how he reacts as a new player I have not seen. I did say earlier I only had gut leans, no strong reads what so ever.