Sumting Sumting Maifa | Game Over

[ranmaru]

I literally voted the same way in the previous game that you hosted. The triss thing should be null since I haven't warned Ninja last game about that either. Also I've already shown it in the two posts after that sentence, I think it's clear what I mean there.

 

[ranmaru]

Yet you never answered it at the time. You were biding your time for results that have little to no pay off. Can you explain how your #393 lines up along with the rest of your play? Finally, can you explain why you are playing the way you are?

Don't forget to answer this.

 

[Xivii]

Yet you never answered it at the time. You were biding your time for results that have little to no pay off. Can you explain how your #393 lines up along with the rest of your play? Finally, can you explain why you are playing the way you are?

lol no. I didn't answer it because it was going to be answered in my reads. What about 393 do you want to know about? And no, I play the way I do and you do this in literally every game because you think I should play the way you want me to. I'm not going to alter how I approach the game to satisfy your warped sense of how to play the game.

 

[Xivii]

Explain how this isn't TMI:

Process of elimination. I'm town reading or town leaning on everyone else.

 

[ranmaru]

What I want to know is why you have little presence yet have such a lazy list. I was expecting more.

 

[Xivii]

Your expectations are wrong. And they are always wrong. We literally went through this last game and you promised yet again to leave me alone day 1 and let me do my thing.

 

[ranmaru]

I did let you do your thing. Yet here we are.

 

[Xivii]

Also you're comparing a page 10 readlist in a large game (more players to sort, less content) to a page 40 read list in a micro game (fewer players to sort, more content).

 

[ranmaru]

You've had enough time to draft up a reads list with the same amount of content as I did this game.

 

[Xivii]

I did let you do your thing. Yet here we are.

Yes this totally looks like leaving me alone and not getting on my nuts for what you believe to be disengagement because it doesn't meet your standards.

 

[ranmaru]

I have nothing else to say. Zen is scum. When Zen takes a backseat in the thread, it comes with a big analysis. There is no such thing this game, no desire to solve the game. I will let the thread breathe, but I'll answer questions if anyone has any.

 

[Xivii]

I literally voted the same way in the previous game that you hosted.

First two pages in Oasis:

Spoiler: Sumting

##Jackrito

Vote:3DS Ninja



States a suspicion on UP. Yet doesn't care enough to answer a question related to his suspicion.

Sabrar, I am curious as to why you haven't talked about the setup at all by this point. Example we have plurality which means the person with the most votes dies if we can't make a decision. Random townie dies if this isn't the case.

I am curious why you didn't answer Pythag in the first place.

Sabrar, that is a good point. Plurality isn't a normal mechanic for us, so I felt it was something to point out. Plus another important aspect: we have dusk and dawn, which is important to consider in the future.

Wisp, before I answer, why are you asking me for that before you give your own opinion on him? To answer your second question, no I am not talking about his rvs vote.

Ok Boomfrog is scum.

My opinion on Laser: His #34 doesn't lineup with his progression before hand. He seems to be emoting with confusion towards me, which seems odd as he should have context with what I was saying in my #39. The reason why I asked Sabrar was because he always feels it's important to discuss setup, and to scumhunt in that manner. Yet Laser's response to my post doesn't make sense from someone that should understand Sabrar much better than myself. I think the emote business is null, but his emote response to Z25 is not good. His posting so far has been disingenuous. He prefers to :/ me instead of consider that what I was saying makes sense, which I think is likely scum motivated.



Unvote: Vote: Laserguy

Boom is Laser's buddy, chainsawing.

Also, 3DS had a good reaction and explanation to my posts.

Sabrar proved himself correctly, and proved me wrong. I think there is nothing wrong with being wrong, and it can help me sort a player further from these interactions. Most of the games I have played with Sabrar, where I was scum, and he was town, he would be playing with the setup in mind. So is it not natural for me to expect that again? Now my question is, your response to Sabrar about Laser guy, why didn't you expand on how it affected your stance on Laser. Why vote Jackrito?

You say you like to act first and explain later but you never gave a :/ to my question to Sabrar initially but you give it after my #58 to support Laser's :/. What's your opinion of the first sentence of my #58?

It is but I suggest against anyone role claiming without any reason. Basically if you don't have any conclusive results, no reason to claim on Day 1, or pre-maturely at all. If a person claims their role they'll be vulnerable to scum night killing them if they are a threat to scum. I'm hoping you know that much but I actually can't be that sure because Mamboo.

##Laserguy I voted with the wrong format.

Interesting. What made you consider claiming that now? Curious what your stance is on Laser of course, and Z25 since you have him in there too.

That is correct, UP.

To clarify, I believe Boom is scum by association upon Laser flipping scum.

First two pages here:

Spoiler: Sumting

Vote: Triscarr

Xivii Why do you have Bessie as town?
@3DSNinja How did Pythag force his RVS to you? Also, he posted at the same as you, so does your sabrar point still make sense with that in mind?
Trisscar Why did you claim?

You're right, they are the same.

 

[Xivii]

I have nothing else to say. Zen is scum. When Zen takes a backseat in the thread, it comes with a big analysis. There is no such thing this game, no desire to solve the game. I will let the thread breathe, but I'll answer questions if anyone has any.

1. Explain how my post in Sorcerers wasn't TMI
2. Show why you believe may play in there first 10 pages here is different from the first 10 pages in sorcerers
3. Compare my lists to Token mafia (and my play) to my list here.

 

[Xivii]

You need to stop thinking that every little discrepancy is scum. There are other reasons for people's actions than in mafia. And if you keep playing that way you are, you are just going to keep making a mess of things every damn game:

For the future, we must ponder as to why Xiivi would suggest seer choices so early in the day. Then we must ponder why Pythag would have confusion with that, and the interaction seems odd when considering the setup, and what limits the sorcerer has.

 

[ranmaru]

1. That was early in the day, later in the day you had more content. This is late in the day and you have little to nothing to show for it.
2. The above also explains that.
3. You were active in that game. Here you are not.

 

[Pythag]

Ran, your recent posting makes me think you're town, but I disagree with your reads.

Sabrar: At first, I had concerns with Sabrar since he didn't have a push, but this push on Ninja I agree with. I think he's focusing too much on the role aspect, and should be looking at Ninja's individual play.

Sab was also in the game we played with 3DS. I think he should know better than how he's pushing him exactly. Focusing on the role and not the gameplay is a way of doing that. I think that's kinda scummy.
I also didn't like him siding with Triss in Triss v Boomfrog.

Handorin: From the start, I felt he was the first person to have a substantial vote in the game. (#88) I think he's been consistently scum hunting with the little presence he has. That's all really.

Hando's posts read like a vintage wine tastes to me. Very nostalgic. you mention yourself that he has little presence. I'm kinda shocked you put him as town rather than null. I want to town read hando, but I don't have enough.

Deadbananas: From seeing his #337, I find it reasonable and it also helps strengthen my read on Malak.

This one I'll actually agree with, I was holding off on deadbananas until he gave his reads list, as it looked like he was just kicking the can down the road, and never delivering, but I actually liked most of his reads. I have a problem with his town read on me, just because like Groucho Marx said : "I would never join a club that would have me as a member." I'm just suspicious when people town read me. Or I should pull a Wiisp and say "I don't like when people try to figure me out D1. (jp wiisp)

Jackrito: I have him as slight town, merely due to his #161. I didn't have much stick out to myself either, so I think it's pro-town to bandwagon to pressure until we gain more discussion and leads from that direction. Nothing else pings me about him.

I think you're giving too much of the benefit of the doubt here. Jack's play looks very similar to me of last game. But I was only with him for a day. ::shrug::

Trisscar: After Triss was pushed, he's still been active in thread, while doing nothing. Yet he wasn't trying to improve his image within the town. This means this doesn't progress a scum win condition, yet it still requires us to sort him later, as in he put himself in a bad position. Not someone I'd lynch today, but someone I feel should be resolved down the line. Null-town.

Being active and doing nothing isn't a town read for me. Also note how you town read Trisscar for this and you scum read Ninja for similar play :

Ninja: First off, he's still making the same mistakes as the previous game, which I'll be taking as null. He is leaning towards the opinions of his shadow, and sidelining. His #47 seems forced, because Pythag's post never seemed awful at all. He also unvotes Pythag now without an explanation why, or any interaction with Pythag at all. I also think his Shadow isn't really using the role to it's full potential. #345 Is the worst post, because of his shadow holding back reads because it would only be full of nulls, when we have enough content to sort people by. I think it's also possible he may not be lying about his role but is still mafia, which is why he claimed it. It only makes sense to claim it as mafia, who wants town credit, but doesn't use it to it's fullest. Scum.

Ninja was town last game. How can his same 'mistakes' be leading you to a scum read?
Ninja's only reads we got D1 was, it pinged him how much people moved around during RVS, and the like. This strikes me as definitely in character for him.
Plus ninja is in essence playing as two people.
His 345..he's so transparent in his own self interest I almost respect it. He's trying. I think he's town.

Z25: Alright, there is a stark difference between his town game, and his mafia game. In the previous game, he'd tunnel on Boom and Maven, and I re-read, and I always noticed these signs. He was town. Yet here, his reads are very wishy washy, and he has no sense of conviction with his stances. #263

I may give credence to this one.
My counter argument that in a game this large it's not a complete sin to have a lot of nulls.

Xiivi: #42 This post pinged me because he's giving Bessie a town read when it was null, there was nothing to read from that post that was townie. Rather, I think it was too early to judge and this implies Xiivi has TMI. His #129 doesn't sound like he believes in it or is confident in it. Now he posts his reads list #393 which isn't comparable to his play in Sorcerers. [Town!Zen Reads Post] [Scum Zen Game] Notice that his play here is disengaged, and the pay off isn't there. Now his push on Handorin is notably weak. Most importantly, Zen isn't looking at intent or trying to determine who is actually scum here. There is no conviction to this posts here, and his tone is different, especially when interacting with me. He's taking each opportunity to sling mud (I'm not sure of the term, so I say that) on my slot when I ask him a question of his play. If he had a genuine concern with my play, he'd bring it up previously, and have it reflected in his lynch list. #397 #402 Finally, Zen never had an explanation for why Pythag became better to him to be placed in the do not lynch list.

So, I read through the Scum Zen game. (lol did you really post your phone number?!)

Xivii looks and sounds almost exactly like he does in Socerers Open. WAY more than in that other game.
Here's the closest thing I've found in similarities :

lol no. I didn't answer it because it was going to be answered in my reads. What about 393 do you want to know about? And no, I play the way I do and you do this in literally every game because you think I should play the way you want me to. I'm not going to alter how I approach the game to satisfy your warped sense of how to play the game.

In the scum!Zen game I see a lot of ad hominem and implications. A desire to get others To connect the dots, not connect the dots for them.
Maybe it was the size of the game, or maybe it's an evolution of playstyle, regardless, I don't see a meta connection.

He was suspicious of me in Sorcs, and he was suspicious of me in this game too. I don't have a problem. He seems to be a man of few words, so I'm not too bothered by him.

You're upset at Xivii not necessarily showing his work, and I get that. you have every right to find him scummy for that.
You're also upset that his pushes lack drive.
But in the scum game you listed, he's pushing HARD for people, and using arguments to push people to be lynched.
I don't know if you are allowed to have it both ways ran. I get that you want a case, but the closest one I'll agree with you on could be Z25.

BTW if BoomFrog is alive by the end of D3 and hasn't lynched scum yet, lynch him 100% of the time. I don't care if you have a cop clear on him or what. Lynch him.

Can you elaborate on this one, Xivi?

 

[Xivii]

1. That was early in the day, later in the day you had more content. This is late in the day and you have little to nothing to show for it.
2. The above also explains that.
3. You were active in that game. Here you are not.

1. You stated that my read on bessie is TMI because of how early it was and the lack of reasoning. Yet I also town read 6+ players there also at the beginning and without reason. Show how one is TMI and not the other.
2. Show how my play is different within the first 10 pages with quotes.
3. Show how my activity level is different with quotes (as I showed above with you).

 

[Xivii]

For the future, we must ponder as to why Xiivi would suggest seer choices so early in the day. Then we must ponder why Pythag would have confusion with that, and the interaction seems odd when considering the setup, and what limits the sorcerer has.

Particularly think: Why would town do this.

 

[ranmaru]

Pythag The game I show, he has a weak case on Orbo and Pawn, we lynch Pawn, he flips town. #306 He's been voting you the whole game and not doing anything with it until now. In Sorcs he was active and trying to determine who was actually mafia. (Yes, even though I suspected him there)

 

[Trisscar]

Also I may not be able to post here too much tomorrow, my grandma lives with us and had a mini stroke we believe so she was taken to the hospital and has been admitted. We’ve got to see how that goes and how to keep her and us safe when she gets back because that damn virus is rampant here and I can not get it because I already have a poor immune system. Still I’ll try to post tomorrow

Ooof, much sympathies. Clean the f*** out of everything and stay safe.

Xivii ranmaru I am on the verge of deciding that the best course of action it telling you two to get a chat room. Yall are way to heated for literally any internet game, holy crap. XD

 

[Pythag]

He created those cases out of nothing, and then tried to get people on board. I haven't seen any huge wall posts from Xivii yet, nor have I seen any great push one way or the other, and tonally I don't see it.

 

[ranmaru]

Pythag, tell me. Flesh out your read on Zen.

 

[Sabrar]

I also didn't like him siding with Triss in Triss v Boomfrog.

Where do you get this from? Refer to #205
Just because I later found BF's reasoning subpar does not invalidate my earlier stance.

 

[Xivii]

Ran (Superman) - Can you PLEASE make a deal to just reserve judgment on me throughout D1 from now on? This pattern of me just tryna chill and you scumreading me for it, we just keep repeating history!

I'm sorry! Osie influenced me! I was trying really hard to stick to my guns and wait. But Osie wanted it! I was trying to give you a day. That was my misplay.

 

[Pythag]

Where do you get this from? Refer to #205
Just because I later found BF's reasoning subpar does not invalidate my earlier stance.

WHOOPS.

My bad. I was definitely remembering that incorrectly.

 

[Xivii]

If Ranmaru doesn't fully address #457, he's scum.

 

[ranmaru]

I'm getting to it. I'm willing to take the lynch today to show that I'm that confident in you.

 

[Xivii]

Can you elaborate on this one, Xivi?

BoomFrog is the most manipulative player here and there's no reliable way to read him aside from who he's lynching. If you think he's town, but he seems to be only lynching town, lynch him no matter what.

 

[Xivii]

His reads are crazy good as the game develops though. Usually by D3. If you notice, in Oasis he pinned both scum that day. Whereas his reads before that were off.

 

[ranmaru]

Pythag, can you answer my question on Zen?

 

[Pythag]

I'm writing it right now

 

[ranmaru]

1.

Process of elimination. I'm town reading or town leaning on everyone else.

Ranmaru you can consider it a soul read.

The difference is here, you were using POE early in the game, and used that to inform your reads. Here, you gave bessie a town read she didn't deserve at the time. You should take the time to explain it now.

2. and 3. You've had the same amount of posts in both Token Mafia and this game. Yet you were active there, compared to here. To be active here you'd need more posts.

 

[ranmaru]

Well you two are the scum team after all so I expect you to defend him. He has no issue with open wolfing.

You were on the lower end of my list because I felt like everyone else had a fairly townie opening.

I'm not sure why you two keep insisting that it was random/a joke. It was intuition. I can sense your scum vibes telepathically.

UP and Jack are the scum team.

You were on the lower end of my list because I felt like everyone else had a fairly townie opening.

I want to know why you town read him at the time you mentioned it.

That's never the town thing to do. It eliminates the information we could have gotten from another vote as well as the possibility of your wagon dissolving.

These are the posts that I think are scummy from Z25. In Sorcerer's I noticed that he excessively described his process and liking people's posts in a way that I hadn't seen from his town game (Videogame Mafia)

 

[Xivii]

Cool.

Vote: Ranmaru

 

[ranmaru]

This Zen in token Mafia shows conviction, establishes his case, and progresses his town win condition. Here, he lacks these three things.

 

[Pythag]

Pythag, tell me. Flesh out your read on Zen.

Spoiler: scum!Xivii

@orbo: I'm not going to pay that way in a newbie game.

Ran you seem quite worried about the votes on you. You're usually quite nonchalant about being voted. What's up?

Here's the slighting ^

You know it took 5 to lynch. You were on as well, meaning you were equally as wrong as I was as was everyone else who voted pawn. How should me being wrong make me any less legitimate than anyone else that was equally wrong. Especially since I'm the only one actually using evidence here.

Casting doubt in an OMGUS fashion on you when you find him scummy. ^

I don't care if it's contradictory. If I'm right we hit scum. If I'm wrong you get a double vote. No strings attached. At all. Quit worrying about your image and just vote with me. I 100% will not hold it against you.

Ad hominem at someone who's doubting his claim. ^

Vote: Orbo



Tracked Orbo to Potassium.

use of evidence to bolster claim cause he's pushing hard ^

You hate me because I'm right?

once again more appeals. ^

Ran I don't know wtf you are doing but you are seriously driving me insane with the way you are playing. You act like I don't have a right to call you scummy when you have done seriously nothing all game. You haven't even given any scum reads for peaks/petes sake.

Here's mudslinging ^

This is very different than :

Spoiler: this game

Nope, wrong again.

Straight forward, not putting bait on a hook ^

Your question is loaded. I'm not disengaged. If you want to know a specific read, you can ask me about it rather than make an assumption that I don't have any reasoning. You comparing read list to Sorcerers is invalid because of the nature of the game and my role. Read Token Power Mafia for a better comparison.

Recognizing a possible trap in your question, and demonstrating how your position is flawed ^ (he's not calling you scummy for it either)

My lynch list obviously answer that. My read on him dissolved soon after you asked me about it based on the way he responded (non-divensive and continued hunting).

THIS is comparable with Sorcerers when he thought I was Sorcerer, but then flipped due to my responses.

I voted you because your naked vote with nothing around it was scummy. It reminded me of your play in, I forget the game name. Let me look it up. I unvoted you because the questions you were asking and the fact that you were trying a different style I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Giving his reasons for why he voted you, and also why he unvoted you.

You say that I have found the opportunity at every turn to sling mud at you: please show this. I voted you at the beginning of the day and unvoted you when you had a reasonable explanation for your behavior and explained to others that you should be given the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. The only other concern I've voided with your play is the Triss thing. You throwing shade at him for it but not even informing him I think is out of character.

You've made a claim, and I've seen Xivii throw mud in that other game. He hasn't done it here.
He's dealing pretty kindly with you, I think because he doesn't think you're scummy (yet)


At least, this is my read of the whole thing.

 

[Xivii]

1.

The difference is here, you were using POE early in the game, and used that to inform your reads. Here, you gave bessie a town read she didn't deserve at the time. You should take the time to explain it now.

2. and 3. You've had the same amount of posts in both Token Mafia and this game. Yet you were active there, compared to here. To be active here you'd need more posts.

This is Ran laziness.

#1 The Process of Elimination came from reading players as town. How is reading those town players different than reading bessie as town here.

My posts are the same in Token as here. I'd like everyone to read the quotes Ran posted above and state whether you believe he is being sincere.

 

[BoomFrog]

BTW if BoomFrog is alive by the end of D3 and hasn't lynched scum yet, lynch him 100% of the time. I don't care if you have a cop clear on him or what. Lynch him.

What if I'm an innocent child?

 

[Pythag]

This Zen in token Mafia shows conviction, establishes his case, and progresses his town win condition. Here, he lacks these three things.

But he shows conviction in the Scum game you linked.

 

[Pythag]

This is Ran laziness.

#1 The Process of Elimination came from reading players as town. How is reading those town players different than reading bessie as town here.

My posts are the same in Token as here. I'd like everyone to read the quotes Ran posted above and state whether you believe he is being sincere.

It's WIFOM but I don't know if I see Scum!Ran trying to push you D1