RobbyStock
Smash Rookie
I do adore dedede but his bad matchups are some of the worst in the game. I like playing Robin but would like to know who in your guys' opinion would be a great sub/matchup filler for the King.
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Sub characters for Dedede?
- Thread starter RobbyStock
- Start date
Muskrat Catcher
Smash Journeyman
I main Dedede, but its true that his bad matchups are killer. While I still don't feel like any of my characters are good enough to beat a sonic, here is a list of characters that I use as secondaries that combined can deal with the rest of the cast:
Charizard - mostly similar MUs here, but flamethrower off the edge of the stage destroys diddy kong's recovery, and he is fun to use, but for a heavy his playstyle is surprisingly different from Dedede's, so he's not that easy an easy pick up. (But dang does he use the rage mechanic to its fullest!)
Shulk - I hear shulk is a common secondary for Dedede mains, due to his good attack ranges and disjoints that can be played somewhat similarly to Dedede, but with much more versatility thanks to the monado, and the counter can be good against certain foes. Shulk is versatile enough to be a wild card, I don't think any character can shut him out.
Ike - Easy-ish pick up for D3 mains since he is the only other heavy that carries a weapon, great for disjoints. He also matches Dedede's damage output. I don't really have a way to determine when to use Ike, but I have found him effective against certain playstyles, and greninja for some inexplicable reason.
Lucario - If you are more of the "performs well under lots of damage" kind of guy, lucario is for you. Just like DDD, he is hard to kill due to his aura, even though he isn't a heavy. His playstyle takes a bit of time to master, the most important part is adapting your playstyle as you take damage, transitioning from aggressive to defensive, and knowing the most ideal time to do certain things. You will need to get used to the lesser attack range though. Use him whenever you need to put pressure on your opponent, like projectile spammers, or when your opponent lacks kill power, like pikachu.
Ganondorf - Choose this guy whenever you want to have a bit of fun with your opponent by going for hard reads. I don't think he has any MUs that I prefer him over Dedede, maybe for the side B command grab, but otherwise, use him for a great time.
Rosalina - If you want to use Rosaluma like an expert, it is quite different from Dedede, and I am certainly not an expert with her, but I have found that just picking her up and using luma as a disjoint (DO NOT FIRE LUMA UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!) is extremely effective for how little experience you need with the character. Also, her U-air is like the only one that has even more priority than DDD's. I use Rosa when I want to have good air speed, since she is really floaty, and when I want to gain speed without sacrificing safety.
Little mac - This guy can either be the most OP character in the game, or the biggest embarassment you will ever play as. Mac's smash attacks are amazing in that they have super armor and hit really hard! And his speed to power ratio is incredible! I use mac whenever I can sacrifice my air game for amazing speed while retaining damage and KO power. But you will need to learn how to recover well with the limited options you have.
Jigglypuff - I haven't explored much into jiggs, but her air game is amazing. She is basically a constantly active and moving hitbox since her moves have high priority and low lag. I have found her easy to pick up with limited experience, but I don't know what her matchups are, so as of now I only use her every once in a while for a change of pace.
So that's my roster. I am also curious, does anyone else have a solution to sonic? As of now, Dedede is actually my best answer to that friggin hedgehog.
EDIT: Ok, I definitely found out why Jigglypuff is a great secondary, because jigglypuff destroys Ness. Jiggs is very difficult to combo, and it is not even guaranteed for a Ness to get any follow up off of a down throw. Also, Jiggs fights in the air, so she is basically immune to the dreaded PK Fire, and even if she gets hit by it, it won't hit her more than twice before she can jump out. And lastly, jiggs preys off of Ness's flawed recovery.
Charizard - mostly similar MUs here, but flamethrower off the edge of the stage destroys diddy kong's recovery, and he is fun to use, but for a heavy his playstyle is surprisingly different from Dedede's, so he's not that easy an easy pick up. (But dang does he use the rage mechanic to its fullest!)
Shulk - I hear shulk is a common secondary for Dedede mains, due to his good attack ranges and disjoints that can be played somewhat similarly to Dedede, but with much more versatility thanks to the monado, and the counter can be good against certain foes. Shulk is versatile enough to be a wild card, I don't think any character can shut him out.
Ike - Easy-ish pick up for D3 mains since he is the only other heavy that carries a weapon, great for disjoints. He also matches Dedede's damage output. I don't really have a way to determine when to use Ike, but I have found him effective against certain playstyles, and greninja for some inexplicable reason.
Lucario - If you are more of the "performs well under lots of damage" kind of guy, lucario is for you. Just like DDD, he is hard to kill due to his aura, even though he isn't a heavy. His playstyle takes a bit of time to master, the most important part is adapting your playstyle as you take damage, transitioning from aggressive to defensive, and knowing the most ideal time to do certain things. You will need to get used to the lesser attack range though. Use him whenever you need to put pressure on your opponent, like projectile spammers, or when your opponent lacks kill power, like pikachu.
Ganondorf - Choose this guy whenever you want to have a bit of fun with your opponent by going for hard reads. I don't think he has any MUs that I prefer him over Dedede, maybe for the side B command grab, but otherwise, use him for a great time.
Rosalina - If you want to use Rosaluma like an expert, it is quite different from Dedede, and I am certainly not an expert with her, but I have found that just picking her up and using luma as a disjoint (DO NOT FIRE LUMA UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!) is extremely effective for how little experience you need with the character. Also, her U-air is like the only one that has even more priority than DDD's. I use Rosa when I want to have good air speed, since she is really floaty, and when I want to gain speed without sacrificing safety.
Little mac - This guy can either be the most OP character in the game, or the biggest embarassment you will ever play as. Mac's smash attacks are amazing in that they have super armor and hit really hard! And his speed to power ratio is incredible! I use mac whenever I can sacrifice my air game for amazing speed while retaining damage and KO power. But you will need to learn how to recover well with the limited options you have.
Jigglypuff - I haven't explored much into jiggs, but her air game is amazing. She is basically a constantly active and moving hitbox since her moves have high priority and low lag. I have found her easy to pick up with limited experience, but I don't know what her matchups are, so as of now I only use her every once in a while for a change of pace.
So that's my roster. I am also curious, does anyone else have a solution to sonic? As of now, Dedede is actually my best answer to that friggin hedgehog.
EDIT: Ok, I definitely found out why Jigglypuff is a great secondary, because jigglypuff destroys Ness. Jiggs is very difficult to combo, and it is not even guaranteed for a Ness to get any follow up off of a down throw. Also, Jiggs fights in the air, so she is basically immune to the dreaded PK Fire, and even if she gets hit by it, it won't hit her more than twice before she can jump out. And lastly, jiggs preys off of Ness's flawed recovery.
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axelalexzander
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2015
- Messages
- 71
You'd probably be fine choosing anyone who isn't destroyed by the same fast characters that D3 is. A fast character or an all around character is probably the best choice. Don't choose another heavy or a projectile based character since they both tend to do poorly against fast characters just like D3.
My other primary main is Wario. And that's because I enjoy him so much and he's mostly even in terms of matchups. He doesn't get utterly destroyed by fast characters unlike D3. And he has many similarities to D3....powerful KO options (Fsmash and Waft) and his neutral special is an air grab somewhat similar to D3's inhale. But he's very different to D3 in terms of range. D3 has tons of range, Wario has limited range. That was a big transition from D3. He's also a funny, goofy character just like D3.
As far as choosing a character that is most similar to D3 I agree with above. That's probably Shulk since he has so many spacing options.
My other primary main is Wario. And that's because I enjoy him so much and he's mostly even in terms of matchups. He doesn't get utterly destroyed by fast characters unlike D3. And he has many similarities to D3....powerful KO options (Fsmash and Waft) and his neutral special is an air grab somewhat similar to D3's inhale. But he's very different to D3 in terms of range. D3 has tons of range, Wario has limited range. That was a big transition from D3. He's also a funny, goofy character just like D3.
As far as choosing a character that is most similar to D3 I agree with above. That's probably Shulk since he has so many spacing options.
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KeithTheGeek
Smash Ace
I sub ROB at the moment, he's really fun and I think the mentality with using ROB is similar to Dedede. You need good spacing and to control space with your projectiles. I also think ROB compliments Dedede's matchups pretty well, though there are couple of holes I still need to address.
Other than that I've been messing around with Falcon, Ganon, and Sonic (lol). Actually been checking a fair number of characters out when customs are on.
Other than that I've been messing around with Falcon, Ganon, and Sonic (lol). Actually been checking a fair number of characters out when customs are on.
benprofane
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2015
- Messages
- 6
Against my better judgment I tried out Fox last night (a friend accused me of "character spam," whatever the eff that even is, so I humored him) and I wrecked pretty much all of my friends. Not sure how I did it, but whatever.
I read earlier today that Fox gets eaten up by other speedy top-tier characters, but he might be a really unexpected pairing with D3.
I'll likely stick to the D3 and Wario duo I mostly use, but maybe Fox a pocket spot if you main D3?
I read earlier today that Fox gets eaten up by other speedy top-tier characters, but he might be a really unexpected pairing with D3.
I'll likely stick to the D3 and Wario duo I mostly use, but maybe Fox a pocket spot if you main D3?
RobbyStock
Smash Rookie
So far i am thinking Ike Rob or Wario for my sub choices. I definitely like ike's similarities and his weight, same goes for the other two. Idk, i will just lab it out and see who fits me the best.
For the longest time I used ROB, but I started using Rosie & Chiko more.
Also I've started using Falcon a lot not so much for bad match-ups but just 'cause he's hella fun.
Also I've started using Falcon a lot not so much for bad match-ups but just 'cause he's hella fun.
SmAshiok
IRL Twilight Princess
It's a bit of a tough question, since I don't find that I have many top tier matchup difficulties. Sheik and Ness probably give me the hardest time, with Luigi being a close runner-up. My worst matchups are actually Samus, Mega Man, and Link/Toon Link, and while yes, I can adapt and play around their play strategies, it's really tedious and difficult for me as King Dedede. If I make one mistake against them, I'm almost instantly behind and have a lot of ground to make up. Kind of like a two-strikes-you're-out kind of deal, since any more than one or two mess ups is a bad time. The characters I use to combat these characters are as follows (and this is purely from my experience, so of course you don't have to agree with my choices):
Olimar - Well, Alph for me. I choose to use Alph when I feel like I can outspace my opponent with how they play. For example, if a Samus is going back and forth between dash attack combos and projectiles from the end of the stage, I can just as quickly change up my playstyles with Alph to better myself in the match. White Pikmin are the baiting Pikmin, since you can throw them across almost the entire stage with a shorthop, meaning they have to stop what they're doing to get it off of them unless they want to take %21. Other Pikmin work just as well, but you have to move forward a bit, so it's still best to just use the White Pikmin. Once they decide enough is enough, they're likely to come at you for melee combat, seeing as their projectile game simply isn't working. This means that you can gather your Pikmin, then get to work on your throw combos. Perfect pivot grabbing is the most optimal, since you can generally read their approach with it, as Alph's grab range is pretty big. Proceed to then down throw and follow up with your chain of F-Airs, or run up and charge an Up Smash if they start air dodging. Once they get to high enough percents, you'll want to find time to get out a Red or a Purple Pikmin to finish the job, but the Yellow, Blue, and White Pikmin are what you'll want to be using the most early on. I find that this works for me, but obviously I can't speak for everyone. (Tip: throwing a Pikmin at a charge shot stops the shot!)
Duck Hunt - This might be a little bit of a surprise, but I find that this duo combats other projectile based characters really well, as well as characters like Sheik and Luigi. The key is actually your Down B, your gunmen. They'll absorb any projectile, as well as a full hand of needles from Sheik, amazingly enough. This means that your projectile game is just better than the opposition, and that you can capitalize on it. They have to play an awkward game against this character because their strategy of projectile spamming is almost useless with Gunmen at your side and the distance that the Can can go (shout out to the can can). They are forced to approach you and try to get through your wall of cans, clay pigeons, and gunmen. That said, it's all about the mix-ups. You can't just spin through all of them one by one, otherwise it gets predictable. I tend to keep the Gunmen out of it unless they are going the projectile route, and simply lobbing clay pigeons and timing my can shots differently every time. Once they get close enough (but not too close), you can normally dash in towards them and grab them, to then throw them off the stage. Then, you can begin your projectile barrage again to keep them off, or go off for a spike, since these characters have pretty linear recoveries overall. Against characters with active hitbox recoveries, it's probably best to play it safe, but against Mega Man, Ness or Luigi? They better hope to have a greeting card, because they're about to say hello to the ground. My reasoning for Duck Hunt being good against these characters might just be because I probably have most practice with them after King Dedede, but if you can play Duck Hunt at all, it might be worth trying.
Fox - Mr. McCloud is really fast and is probably the best option for projectile-based characters because not only are you a run down combo character, you're also a character with a pretty decently framed reflector that you can hold for as long as you'd like, forcing your opponents to come to you if they're really feeling like spamming arrows or charge shots is effective. There's nothing more satisfying than watching a Mega Man charge his side smash and falling down with a reflector to end the stock at %40. I'm not the best Fox player, nor do I have as much practice with him as I do other characters, but I find the skill that I have is enough to combat the three pesky matches that King Dedede has a hard time with. I say Fox because Olimar and Duck Hunt are a bit more technical and require more practice than Fox does, in my experience. Not to say that Fox is easy to play or anything, because he is certainly far from that, just that the other characters are a bit... quirky, to some extent.
Other match ups I have that aren't my favorite are Peach, Rosalina & Luma, Zelda, Falco, and ROB, but they're not unbearable to the point of me switching my character. I'm versed well enough with King Dedede that I can still pull through those matches confidently - I just have to focus more than when I'm playing against characters like Mario, Jigglypuff, or Sonic. So much easier. Overall, I have the easiest time against run down characters, and the worst against projectile based characters. It's good to have a secondary for those match ups. Even though I can win against them, it's much more difficult to do with King Dedede as opposed to the three characters above.
Just my two cents, though. Hope this helps. <:
Olimar - Well, Alph for me. I choose to use Alph when I feel like I can outspace my opponent with how they play. For example, if a Samus is going back and forth between dash attack combos and projectiles from the end of the stage, I can just as quickly change up my playstyles with Alph to better myself in the match. White Pikmin are the baiting Pikmin, since you can throw them across almost the entire stage with a shorthop, meaning they have to stop what they're doing to get it off of them unless they want to take %21. Other Pikmin work just as well, but you have to move forward a bit, so it's still best to just use the White Pikmin. Once they decide enough is enough, they're likely to come at you for melee combat, seeing as their projectile game simply isn't working. This means that you can gather your Pikmin, then get to work on your throw combos. Perfect pivot grabbing is the most optimal, since you can generally read their approach with it, as Alph's grab range is pretty big. Proceed to then down throw and follow up with your chain of F-Airs, or run up and charge an Up Smash if they start air dodging. Once they get to high enough percents, you'll want to find time to get out a Red or a Purple Pikmin to finish the job, but the Yellow, Blue, and White Pikmin are what you'll want to be using the most early on. I find that this works for me, but obviously I can't speak for everyone. (Tip: throwing a Pikmin at a charge shot stops the shot!)
Duck Hunt - This might be a little bit of a surprise, but I find that this duo combats other projectile based characters really well, as well as characters like Sheik and Luigi. The key is actually your Down B, your gunmen. They'll absorb any projectile, as well as a full hand of needles from Sheik, amazingly enough. This means that your projectile game is just better than the opposition, and that you can capitalize on it. They have to play an awkward game against this character because their strategy of projectile spamming is almost useless with Gunmen at your side and the distance that the Can can go (shout out to the can can). They are forced to approach you and try to get through your wall of cans, clay pigeons, and gunmen. That said, it's all about the mix-ups. You can't just spin through all of them one by one, otherwise it gets predictable. I tend to keep the Gunmen out of it unless they are going the projectile route, and simply lobbing clay pigeons and timing my can shots differently every time. Once they get close enough (but not too close), you can normally dash in towards them and grab them, to then throw them off the stage. Then, you can begin your projectile barrage again to keep them off, or go off for a spike, since these characters have pretty linear recoveries overall. Against characters with active hitbox recoveries, it's probably best to play it safe, but against Mega Man, Ness or Luigi? They better hope to have a greeting card, because they're about to say hello to the ground. My reasoning for Duck Hunt being good against these characters might just be because I probably have most practice with them after King Dedede, but if you can play Duck Hunt at all, it might be worth trying.
Fox - Mr. McCloud is really fast and is probably the best option for projectile-based characters because not only are you a run down combo character, you're also a character with a pretty decently framed reflector that you can hold for as long as you'd like, forcing your opponents to come to you if they're really feeling like spamming arrows or charge shots is effective. There's nothing more satisfying than watching a Mega Man charge his side smash and falling down with a reflector to end the stock at %40. I'm not the best Fox player, nor do I have as much practice with him as I do other characters, but I find the skill that I have is enough to combat the three pesky matches that King Dedede has a hard time with. I say Fox because Olimar and Duck Hunt are a bit more technical and require more practice than Fox does, in my experience. Not to say that Fox is easy to play or anything, because he is certainly far from that, just that the other characters are a bit... quirky, to some extent.
Other match ups I have that aren't my favorite are Peach, Rosalina & Luma, Zelda, Falco, and ROB, but they're not unbearable to the point of me switching my character. I'm versed well enough with King Dedede that I can still pull through those matches confidently - I just have to focus more than when I'm playing against characters like Mario, Jigglypuff, or Sonic. So much easier. Overall, I have the easiest time against run down characters, and the worst against projectile based characters. It's good to have a secondary for those match ups. Even though I can win against them, it's much more difficult to do with King Dedede as opposed to the three characters above.
Just my two cents, though. Hope this helps. <:
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CaptainVul
Smash Apprentice
I've recently been trying to pick up a secondary for matchups that I don't like as well.
I think Pit is good for this purpose because he plays somewhat similarly to Dedede in terms of spacing and he has multiple jumps like Dedede which is always good because your tomahawk skills that you have with Dedede won't go to waste.
I also like Fox but his playstyle is obviously alot different than Dedede so you ca't transfer any of your Dedede skills over to that character. Which isn't completely necessary but its always nice to have some consistency between your main and secondary.
Kirby and Meta-Knight are also characters that I've been considering but I kinda feel like the matchups that I don't like with Dedede aren't that much better with these characters.
I think Pit is good for this purpose because he plays somewhat similarly to Dedede in terms of spacing and he has multiple jumps like Dedede which is always good because your tomahawk skills that you have with Dedede won't go to waste.
I also like Fox but his playstyle is obviously alot different than Dedede so you ca't transfer any of your Dedede skills over to that character. Which isn't completely necessary but its always nice to have some consistency between your main and secondary.
Kirby and Meta-Knight are also characters that I've been considering but I kinda feel like the matchups that I don't like with Dedede aren't that much better with these characters.
3bubby
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 20, 2015
- Messages
- 17
I sub Megaman. Like Dedede, he has good aerial mobility, disjointed hitboxes, excellent recoveries, and is still remarkably heavy. The only problem I face with Dedede is that he is a large target in a match. Megaman is a lot smaller, but with some similarities.
The way I've approached finding subs is see who your Main is a bad match up against, then find the character that is a bad match up for that. Rockman, paper, scissors!
The way I've approached finding subs is see who your Main is a bad match up against, then find the character that is a bad match up for that. Rockman, paper, scissors!
Interrobang!?
Smash Rookie
I like to use Little Mac actually. He is fast, hits like a truck and apparently I'm a sucker for punishment.
Cook
Smash Master
Pretty sure Sheik is the best secondary. From what I've heard, supposed to wreck ZSS, Sonic, Pikachu, Yoshi, and Megaman.
Putuk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2014
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- None of your beeswax!
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- Switch FC
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Once Lucas goes live, he and Dedede will be my mains. What do you guys think of that combination?
axelalexzander
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2015
- Messages
- 71
Yeah, I'd definitely agree with this. Does Shiek even have a bad matchup? The only problem with picking Shiek as your secondary is after you get good with her you'll start asking yourself why you're using Dedede as a primary because Shiek is so much better! Also she's very likely to get nerfed in the next balance patch, so she could get much worse. Although it's hard to see her getting hurt too much, Diddy got nerfed hard in the Mewtwo patch and most people still consider him top 5. Even if they reduce Shiek's knockback and damage she'll still be a gimpmaster.
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JimmyTheCaterpillar
Smash Ace
Wow twinsies!
Banjo-Kazooie
Smash Ace
Im having a lot of trouble getting a secondary to match Dedede.
I can play decently with other heavyweights like Charizard, but I don't think that will help me against the matchups Dedede has trouble with.
I can also play an ok Peach, but I don't feel she gets an advantage against Dedede's hard matchups either (plus, her ATs scare me).
Been training lately Metaknight. He is fun and I think he has potential. But I have troubles doing the Uair+Uair+UpB combo the Metapros do. On the other hand, Dreamland buddies4lyfe.
At least one thing Im certain is that now I feel my Dedede is so crisp that sometimes I'd rather struggle through a Sheik/Mario/Pikachu than trying my luck with a secondary. I hope future DLC can give me a character that I can main that gives me a different approach. But in the end there will be K. Rool and I will probably end maining 2 heavyweights in the end, welp.
I can play decently with other heavyweights like Charizard, but I don't think that will help me against the matchups Dedede has trouble with.
I can also play an ok Peach, but I don't feel she gets an advantage against Dedede's hard matchups either (plus, her ATs scare me).
Been training lately Metaknight. He is fun and I think he has potential. But I have troubles doing the Uair+Uair+UpB combo the Metapros do. On the other hand, Dreamland buddies4lyfe.
At least one thing Im certain is that now I feel my Dedede is so crisp that sometimes I'd rather struggle through a Sheik/Mario/Pikachu than trying my luck with a secondary. I hope future DLC can give me a character that I can main that gives me a different approach. But in the end there will be K. Rool and I will probably end maining 2 heavyweights in the end, welp.
I too have been finding it very hard to pick a secondary for Dedede. I've pretty much gone through the whole roster, and have about 6-7 characters I regularly use in addition to Dedede...
- Meta Knight: My current dual-main with Dedes. I have a very bait & punish playstyle and Meta Knight is like a smaller, lighter, faster, version of Dedede, so I feel he compliments him well. My only problem with him is how light he is and you have to play pretty much perfectly to avoid getting KO'd...
- Pac Man: I have only just picked up Pac Man as a tertiary character. He has some amazing combos with the fruit and fire hydrant and he's just a lot of fun to play as! He's also somewhat wacky and fun to troll my friends with, which is part of the reasons I like Dedede so much I guess
- Bowser Jr: Very underrated character with powerful tools. Again I really like the character but can't help but feel that R.O.B. is superior...
- R.O.B: Amazing character who many Dedede's use as a secondary. However he is big and easily combo'ed just like Dedede which can be a problem when facing a Sonic, Sheik etc.
- Shulk: Has a great spacing game like Dedede, and the Monado Arts allow him to adapt to pretty much any situation.
- Ganondorf: More powerful than Dedede, and easy to pick up if you're comfortable with heavy characters. No real advantages over Dedede though...
- Captain Falcon: Fast, powerful, and combos. Need to go as pink Captain Fabulous, to match pink Dedede. Recovery is bad, but the "show me your moves" taunt is almost as powerful as the Dedede down tilt.
JimmyTheCaterpillar
Smash Ace
Yoo, so I've been playing around with for a long time, but since the buffs, I really feel like she can be a sold secondary to Dedesy. She comes very naturally to me. Maybe cuz royalty?
Something to think about for you guys...
But it might just be me and my addiction to lowmid tiers idk.
for a long time, but since the buffs, I really feel like she can be a sold secondary to Dedesy. She comes very naturally to me. Maybe cuz royalty?Something to think about for you guys...
But it might just be me and my addiction to lowmid tiers idk.
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Putuk
Smash Lord
- Joined
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- None of your beeswax!
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- SW-8387-2163-6416
Odd that you mention her. I recently started messing around with her and I actually quite enjoy her playstyle.Yoo, so I've been playing around with
Something to think about for you guys...
But it might just be me and my addiction to lowmid tiers idk.
Unfortunately, TP Zelda is probably my least favorite Zelda from a character design standpoint. If only there were some neat costumes...
JimmyTheCaterpillar
Smash Ace
Ha, really? TP is actually my favorite, although SkywardSword is pretty alright too.
I always though OoT was pretty bland and didn't like it in melee.