Struggling with Ness

[Outlawstarx]

I'm having a very hard time using Ness in Ultimate. This is the first game in the entire series where he doesn't feel natural to me. His up air I don't like the change to it. Its hard to short hop and up air now I really dislike the multi hit. With the way air dodging is, recovering is much more difficult for me. In past games i could air dodge, evade and attack and recover. Now Everyone reads my recovery because thats the only option i have. Air dodging now while off stage is almost suicide.

Also maybe its just me but it seems like his moves have little to no priority. i get hit so much on when using my forward air, it seems like everything cuts through it.

Last is PK fire, I know that it has longer start up time but when using it, it also either pushes my opponent away from me or it pushes Ness back while on the ground. Ive whiffed my f-smash and grab so many times because now you have to move up to your opponent in order to connect.

I guess Its just gong to take time to adjust but Im really disappointed in the changes. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Seangi]

I'm having a very hard time using Ness in Ultimate. This is the first game in the entire series where he doesn't feel natural to me. His up air I don't like the change to it. Its hard to short hop and up air now I really dislike the multi hit. With the way air dodging is, recovering is much more difficult for me. In past games i could air dodge, evade and attack and recover. Now Everyone reads my recovery because thats the only option i have. Air dodging now while off stage is almost suicide.

Also maybe its just me but it seems like his moves have little to no priority. i get hit so much on when using my forward air, it seems like everything cuts through it.

Last is PK fire, I know that it has longer start up time but when using it, it also either pushes my opponent away from me or it pushes Ness back while on the ground. Ive whiffed my f-smash and grab so many times because now you have to move up to your opponent in order to connect.

I guess Its just gong to take time to adjust but Im really disappointed in the changes. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Hey, bud! Like you, I’ve played Ness a long time, and I think I can help you adjust, if even just a little bit. You always hear people saying “nair” when it comes to Ness. Well, it’s true. Nair is a very helpful tool that can replace the up air in this game pretty well, although there is the problem with the knock back. I recommend going into training and labbing new combos, because every smash iteration brings some new tech that can help. My biggest piece of advice is to try not to think of this as a smash game until you figure it out. As crazy as it sounds, it’s easier to create your new play style in this new game engine when you think of it as a completely different game. And in a way, it is. Hope this helped! I wasn’t able to help on the forward air; I haven’t really had trouble with that one yet. Also, try to practice mixups offstage so you can avoid being read off of an airdodge. Have a great day!

 

[Your God John]

I've played for a looong time and, similar to you, I had a problem with the knockback of PK Fire. F Smashing after a successful PK Fire was a relaliable follow-up for me for years but out of nowhere I started feeling like the bat was too short.

Yet like you said, there's pushback on two fronts. You have to force yourself to compensate for the distance that occurs. Dash into bat swings, be cognizant of the space created.

Play. More. IDK about you but I haven't actively played Smash in years. Yet everything I used to do as Ness, from YEARS AND HOURS of of repetition, were still coming out and I'd wiff or fail. You will get used to it. Take it one step at a time.

 

[Outlawstarx]

I've played for a looong time and, similar to you, I had a problem with the knockback of PK Fire. F Smashing after a successful PK Fire was a relaliable follow-up for me for years but out of nowhere I started feeling like the bat was too short.

Yet like you said, there's pushback on two fronts. You have to force yourself to compensate for the distance that occurs. Dash into bat swings, be cognizant of the space created.

Play. More. IDK about you but I haven't actively played Smash in years. Yet everything I used to do as Ness, from YEARS AND HOURS of of repetition, were still coming out and I'd wiff or fail. You will get used to it. Take it one step at a time.

Im just going to have to find another main. I've played a lot of matches today and I just can't use him. It's a total mind **** for me. I've never had an issue in any smash with ness until now. He just feels too slow to me in comparison with other smaller characters. He's like a completely new character. His combos are different, his spacing is different. I even have issues with the timing of pk and thunder. It's just crazy to me. But thanks for the tips and advice.

 

[Ardente]

I’m struggling pretty hard too. I was a pretty good ness main in 4. I was always confident going into a match that I was going to win. Ness felt so perfect in that game. I knew exactly what I was going to do with my move set and executed it. This game ness feels completely different and it’s hard adjusting to it. My friend who I could beat 70/30 in 4 is now abusing me and I’m clueless on how to change

 

[platomaker]

I have the opposite effect, I prefer ness how he is here- its kinda like how he was in brawl (without the gamebreaking exploit).

So you got a character that has more reliable aerials and special moves. The only nerf I can tell is his refractory period after using pk thunder.

Smash 4 combos at low percent and follow up with aerials then edgeguard. It's nothing fancy and all this advice might be worthless in two years, but it's a start. It kinda reminds me of captain falcon, all his flair is usually him edgeguarding. So everything ness does is to push opponents to the edge, and backthrow anyone who keeps resisting.

 

[Specs64z]

Why does everyone think PK fire has more startup? Where does that rumor keep coming from?? I must've tested it a million times because I keep hearing that, but I'm not seeing it.
Ultimate:
start- frame 18
FAF- frame 55

Smash 4:
start - frame 21
FAF- frame 59

Follow ups are definitely more difficult, but fair, nair, and PK thunder if they jump and PK fire or dash attack if they roll have proven to be reliable for me. Down throw isn't nearly as good, anyways, so losing PK fire -> grab doesn't matter as much and Fsmash wasn't at all reliable in the first place unless your opponent had really bad reaction time.

Also, for recovery, air stalls and your insanely good directional airdodge/magnet hands are your best friend.

 

[EGsmash]

PK fire followups are definitely different, and your old "run up and grab" or "run up and hit 'em with a bat" standbys won't give you reliable results.

Basically you have to pay attention to what's happening:
If your opponent is grounded and fully engulfed in the middle of the pillar, then a run up grab or FSmash may work fine. You can also double up the PK fire just for funsies.

If your opponent is grounded but on the outer edge of the pillar, he's probably going to DI back and maybe roll. Chase him, read what he does, and act accordingly - You can punish a roll with another PK fire, or a dash attack.

If your opponent is off the ground, then there's a good chance that a grab or smash will whiff under. However, you've got tons of options, depending on the position of your opponent: An aerial PK fire is one of my faves since you can jump forward as you do it and renew your lock while spacing yourself closer. Sometimes a Fair or even Uair works if you're close enough. If they manage to DI out, if they go low then you chase and punish with a dash attack or another PK fire, which might be a better grounded lock for you to grab out of. If they DI and hop out and back, chase with PK Thunder or PK Flash. In fact, PK flash is a good one to aim past the pillar, since it will incite terror and make them DI backward into it.

Ness' B moves are a real asset in this game and I highly recommend learning the spacing, timing, and endlag of aerial PK Fire. It's REALLY good.

Almost forgot: PK Fire -> Run up short-hop cancel PK Magnet (in their face, 1 hit) -> Falling fair (2 hits, no knockback) -> grab