Struggling Against Captain Falcons

[Codster]

I am able to defeat many different top level foes with Pac-Man. But I'm having trouble against Captain Falcon! The worst part is every time I encounter a good Captain Falcon, THEY LEAVE AFTER ONE MATCH! Also having some trouble against Little Macs. Any pointers?

 

[ptrk83]

Wow. I thought captain and little Mac were some of our easier match ups. Trampoline on stage and hydrant shuts down both. Prevents them from out right chasing you down. Orange kills Mac at early precents too.


This might be one of those situations where you just need to learn the match up.

 

[Firedemon0]

I am able to defeat many different top level foes with Pac-Man. But I'm having trouble against Captain Falcon! The worst part is every time I encounter a good Captain Falcon, THEY LEAVE AFTER ONE MATCH! Also having some trouble against Little Macs. Any pointers?

Captain Falcon is a very easy matchup for Pac-Man. As previous stated, Trampoline and hydrant basically let us control the stage against a rush down fighter like Captain Falcon. We are able to gimp falcon very easily when off stage, with orange or a bair. What do you feel you are being caught by most often?

 

[Codster]

Wow. I thought captain and little Mac were some of our easier match ups. Trampoline on stage and hydrant shuts down both. Prevents them from out right chasing you down. Orange kills Mac at early precents too.

This might be one of those situations where you just need to learn the match up.

Captain Falcon is a very easy matchup for Pac-Man. As previous stated, Trampoline and hydrant basically let us control the stage against a rush down fighter like Captain Falcon. We are able to gimp falcon very easily when off stage, with orange or a bair. What do you feel you are being caught by most often?

Thanks for the advice. I didn't realize it was supposed to be such an easy Pac-Man matchup. I never do try the trampoline on the stage trick. I guess I should start doing that. But they always knock away my hydrant almost immediately. They also seem to block my attacks so easily and immediately counterattack. So I have little time to attack them or even charge my fruit.

 

[EarthBoundRules]

Captain Falcon vs. Pac-Man is definitely in Pac's favour. His fruit and hydrant shut Falcon down completely.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

You're not the only one who struggles with Falcon, OP. I've been wrecked by a Falcon or two before. Like in your experience, they usually leave, so I don't have much time to learn the matchup, since none of my friends use the character.

 

[Firedemon0]

I do have Falcon as a secondary if you have issues. I can show you my moves if you need practice.

 

[Codster]

You're not the only one who struggles with Falcon, OP. I've been wrecked by a Falcon or two before. Like in your experience, they usually leave, so I don't have much time to learn the matchup, since none of my friends use the character.

I was starting to think I was the only one. There really are some tough Captain Falcon players out there. It's funny how they specialize in "hit and run". Wouldn't you say?

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

I was starting to think I was the only one. There really are some tough Captain Falcon players out there. It's funny how they specialize in "hit and run". Wouldn't you say?

Certainly. I always have trouble with Falcon just rushing in and smacking my hydrants right into my face. It's especially hard to escape aerial strings because he's so fast and we fall so slowly. That Uair is beastly compared to what we have to defend ourselves with. I find that you have to be extremely patient to fight against Falcon, because he'll always pulverize you if you just go in. Faster, stronger, better range, etc gives him a melee advantage. I recall fighting one Falcon who just caught my fruit in midair with expert precision, so it was just as difficult to fight from afar.

 

[Codster]

Certainly. I always have trouble with Falcon just rushing in and smacking my hydrants right into my face. It's especially hard to escape aerial strings because he's so fast and we fall so slowly. That Uair is beastly compared to what we have to defend ourselves with. I find that you have to be extremely patient to fight against Falcon, because he'll always pulverize you if you just go in. Faster, strong, better range, etc gives him a melee advantage. I recall fighting one Falcon who just caught my fruit in midair with expert precision, so it was just as difficult to fight from afar.

Exactly. Some of these players react sooo quickly. Their attacks are so rapid and relentless. It's like they're playing in fast forward. I think this is simply a case of them being extremely good with Captain Falcon and they could probably give any Pac-Man player a tough time.

 

[BSP]

I never do try the trampoline on the stage trick.

Trampoline is Pac-Man's best or second best move IMO. Try to integrate it into your play a lot, especially against characters like Falcon who can and will abuse their amazing ground mobility.

 

[Codster]

I do have Falcon as a secondary if you have issues. I can show you my moves if you need practice.

I suppose I could use some practice. Are you free to smash often? Who else do you use?

 

[Meiwaku]

I'd say Falcon is 50/50. Pac has the zoning advantage, but CF is faster with better kill-power. Don't rely on Hydrant too much (especially now that we can't 1HKO it with bair) because CF can launch it much more easily than you can. Nair and Dtilt are good options because they come out fast, and cherry through apple are nice keep-away tools in this MU. I don't use trampoline much because Falcon is just as dangerous, if not more, in the air.

 

[LanceStern]

I don't think it can be stated enough that trampoline REALLY puts the matchup pace in our favor. They CANNOT rush you down with a trampoline between you two.

 

[Firedemon0]

I suppose I could use some practice. Are you free to smash often? Who else do you use?

I have Falcon, Fox, and Wario for Secondaries. Go ahead and add me, I should be on later tonight, I also added you. I normally play in the evenings from 6ish-9pm EST.

 

[BSP]

I don't use trampoline much because Falcon is just as dangerous, if not more, in the air.

Debatable. I agree that Falcon's air game is good, but if there's a trampoline between you and him:

He can't dash grab you
He can't Falcon Kick you
He can't Raptor Boost you

He can't get next to you without going airborne. That being said, Falcon doesn't mind being in the air, but with our Usmash and Uair, you can beat anything he tries to come down on you with. If you anticipate him jumping over the trampoline (What else is he going to do?), you can also preemptively Bair, which should beat anything he throws out. If he doesn't jump over it, have fun getting whatever fruit you want.

I was playing a buddy yesterday and he said trampoline was getting on his nerves. LanceStern is right. Trampoline forces him to play how you want him to, and you destroy any momentum he has going. I can't believe they made the move behave like it does TBH. The ability to FORCE people airborne in this game is huge.

That being said, he can have his way with us somewhat when he's in our face, but up B OOS can help with that a bit.

 

[Firedemon0]

I was playing a buddy yesterday and he said trampoline was getting on his nerves. LanceStern is right. Trampoline forces him to play how you want him to, and you destroy any momentum he has going. I can't believe they made the move behave like it does TBH. The ability to FORCE people airborne in this game is huge.

Not only that, it is unblockable by the very nature of the attack.

 

[BSP]

Not only that, it is unblockable by the very nature of the attack.

Not only unblockable, undodgeable if you use it on top of the grounded opponent since the trampoline will still pull them out of a spotdodge or roll.

And it covers 3/5 potential ledge options, with one of those 2 non covered options producing the same result that the trampoline would've, and the other leading to grabbing the ledge again with no invincibility.

Seriously, I think it's up there for best move in the game.

 

[Meiwaku]

Yes, trampoline is fine in this matchup for ledge, but I don't think you can use it on the stage in the same way you would for Little Mac, for instance. Falcon's air game and speed are good enough that a decent player will be able to get over it, and get punished only as many times as he's gotten away with it for free. At that point it's a liability- you wouldn't want Pac knocked into it (and special fall) against Falcons knee.

It's really the same reason I don't use hydrant much in this MU- they're hazards to both players, but the risk is more on Pac-Man.

 

[Codster]

Debatable. I agree that Falcon's air game is good, but if there's a trampoline between you and him:

He can't dash grab you
He can't Falcon Kick you
He can't Raptor Boost you

He can't get next to you without going airborne. That being said, Falcon doesn't mind being in the air, but with our Usmash and Uair, you can beat anything he tries to come down on you with. If you anticipate him jumping over the trampoline (What else is he going to do?), you can also preemptively Bair, which should beat anything he throws out. If he doesn't jump over it, have fun getting whatever fruit you want.

I was playing a buddy yesterday and he said trampoline was getting on his nerves. LanceStern is right. Trampoline forces him to play how you want him to, and you destroy any momentum he has going. I can't believe they made the move behave like it does TBH. The ability to FORCE people airborne in this game is huge.

That being said, he can have his way with us somewhat when he's in our face, but up B OOS can help with that a bit.

Well, I faced another Captain Falcon in For Glory. And I failed. But I did have them at over 120% and their final stock! They merely minijumped and air dodged over my trampoline at every instance. They clearly faced that situation before. Most good Captain Falcon players know to use Falcon Kick and Raptor Boost sparingly, for they leave an opportune moment for punishment from Pac-Man. I guess I just need to train some more.

 

[BSP]

Well, I faced another Captain Falcon in For Glory. And I failed. But I did have them at over 120% and their final stock! They merely minijumped and air dodged over my trampoline at every instance. They clearly faced that situation before. Most good Captain Falcon players know to use Falcon Kick and Raptor Boost sparingly, for they leave an opportune moment for punishment from Pac-Man. I guess I just need to train some more.

Yes, trampoline is fine in this matchup for ledge, but I don't think you can use it on the stage in the same way you would for Little Mac, for instance. Falcon's air game and speed are good enough that a decent player will be able to get over it, and get punished only as many times as he's gotten away with it for free. At that point it's a liability- you wouldn't want Pac knocked into it (and special fall) against Falcons knee.

It's really the same reason I don't use hydrant much in this MU- they're hazards to both players, but the risk is more on Pac-Man.

Fair points, but still, your move is forcing Falcon to jump, which you can punish, and limiting his dash grab option. Anything that limits options is a plus in my book, and I think it limits him more than us. However, going helpless definitely is not fun when Falcon is around. I know what you mean about it limiting Pac Man too. We have to smart and stay in control of our obstacles.

and get punished only as many times as he's gotten away with it for free.

How do you figure this? If you're standing right behind your trampoline, you can just smash him or something after the AD invincibility is finished.

 

[Firedemon0]

Yes, trampoline is fine in this matchup for ledge, but I don't think you can use it on the stage in the same way you would for Little Mac, for instance. Falcon's air game and speed are good enough that a decent player will be able to get over it, and get punished only as many times as he's gotten away with it for free. At that point it's a liability- you wouldn't want Pac knocked into it (and special fall) against Falcons knee.

It's really the same reason I don't use hydrant much in this MU- they're hazards to both players, but the risk is more on Pac-Man.

When jumping over Trampoline, Falcon can either lead with knee (Bad idea) Nair (what I do as Falcon) or down air (horrible on shield). If Falcon is committing to jumping over Trampoline, Pac-man will be able to act first when landing. Pac-man also has more places to land. Trampoline is not a move that you spam to control, that is predictable. It breaks up the rush down game that the Falcon player is playing. (That is not how you play Falcon well however)

 

[A2ZOMG]

Not only unblockable, undodgeable if you use it on top of the grounded opponent since the trampoline will still pull them out of a spotdodge or roll.

And it covers 3/5 potential ledge options, with one of those 2 non covered options producing the same result that the trampoline would've, and the other leading to grabbing the ledge again with no invincibility.

Seriously, I think it's up there for best move in the game.

Y'know when you put it that way, suddenly I forget that Pac Man has a terrible grab. Though still, a regular grab probably would have made him obviously OP.

 

[Meiwaku]

How do you figure this? If you're standing right behind your trampoline, you can just smash him or something after the AD invincibility is finished.

Firedemon0 touched on Falcon's options a little, and I don't think it's the options themselves that lead to a free landing, but the mind games. He can short hop, fade and wait for you to whiff a smash, for instance, and punish (aerial Raptor Boost, for instance). It's the same mind games trampoline opens up on every character, I just think Falcon has better options than most of the rest of the roster in the air. It's not that it's unusable, I just don't think it should be the main tool in this MU.