Strategies against a player who lays back and does it really well.

[Tornado]

I played in a small 22 person tournament at a charity event this past weekend. Because it was a charity event, most of the players were just run of the mill easy pickings to plow through. Though with most times there's a smash tournament, there's always a couple of players that will stand above the rest. However, being a charity event, it wasn't really run to normal smash tourney standards. 3 stock 5 minute timer, had to be default control setting, only 1 game per match until semis, and sudden death was allowed if stocks were tied.

I got to the finals and was against a damn good Pikachu. I won the first game and then he pretty easily dominated me in the 2nd and 3rd to win it. I knew he figured me out and I tried to adjust but the guy was far from a scrub (he had spoken to me about how he had won/placed high some tournaments in the past in Brawl and more recently in the Smash 4 days). He was dash dancing, b-reversals on command, spot dodging masterfully, great neutral game. He was very good at shielding too which was very frustrating.

In his adjustments, being a pikachu, he started using neutral-B a lot more and was smart about his placement and distance when using it. Being behind in the match during the 2nd and 3rd game, it forced me to have to make some moves in but it was not working at all. He shielded all my attacks, initiated pika-combos, got hit by the hydrant only a few times in games 2 & 3. One of the things I worry about Pacman is that once people just hang back to avoid all the traps of the hydrant and trampoline and such, it really shuts down Pac's game.

Now Abadango can obviously take Pacman to the top 10 of APEX so Pacman has the capabilities and in the hand of a great player, I would assume he can beat pretty much any character. But there are times in which the matchup/strategy makes me wonder how capable Pacman is of winning major tournaments.

In my scenario though, and the question posed in the topic title, what suggestions/strategies would you use?

 

[xTheAscendedOnex]

I played in a small 22 person tournament at a charity event this past weekend. Because it was a charity event, most of the players were just run of the mill easy pickings to plow through. Though with most times there's a smash tournament, there's always a couple of players that will stand above the rest. However, being a charity event, it wasn't really run to normal smash tourney standards. 3 stock 5 minute timer, had to be default control setting, only 1 game per match until semis, and sudden death was allowed if stocks were tied.

I got to the finals and was against a damn good Pikachu. I won the first game and then he pretty easily dominated me in the 2nd and 3rd to win it. I knew he figured me out and I tried to adjust but the guy was far from a scrub (he had spoken to me about how he had won/placed high some tournaments in the past in Brawl and more recently in the Smash 4 days). He was dash dancing, b-reversals on command, spot dodging masterfully, great neutral game. He was very good at shielding too which was very frustrating.

In his adjustments, being a pikachu, he started using neutral-B a lot more and was smart about his placement and distance when using it. Being behind in the match during the 2nd and 3rd game, it forced me to have to make some moves in but it was not working at all. He shielded all my attacks, initiated pika-combos, got hit by the hydrant only a few times in games 2 & 3. One of the things I worry about Pacman is that once people just hang back to avoid all the traps of the hydrant and trampoline and such, it really shuts down Pac's game.

Now Abadango can obviously take Pacman to the top 10 of APEX so Pacman has the capabilities and in the hand of a great player, I would assume he can beat pretty much any character. But there are times in which the matchup/strategy makes me wonder how capable Pacman is of winning major tournaments.

In my scenario though, and the question posed in the topic title, what suggestions/strategies would you use?

I have the same problem, I play very aggressively and I have trouble fighting smart, defensive players. I lost to just such a player in my weekend tournament. He played Samus masterfully and I couldn't find an opening. He was able to play the distance game and was able to react on a dime in a close quarters fight. I was completely outmatched and I would love to know how to beat these players.

 

[NouveauRétro]

Against strong defensive play with Pacman, my theory is to always go for higher, harder to dodge fruit. If they throw projectiles at you, perfect shielding them is necessary. Key is especially nice against Pika and Samus because you can punish their projectile throwing lag on reaction(key flies through and destroys full charge shot and pretty much ignores missiles and sparks).

If you still want to be aggressive be sure to cover your approach with melons. Melons ignore/break pika sparks, so you can rush in unimpeded. With Samus melon clashes and flies up into the air for easy re grabs. Now you have a 12% zdrop that destroys projectiles and can replaces a bair when looking to launch hydrant. Melons are important for a couple defensive MUs, like and

Should probably master reverse aerial rushing with items in hand if you really want to go in with fruit. Also, mixup approaches with random raw trampolines if they like spot dodges and have great shielding. You will throw them off and get some space to charge better fruit.

 

[BSP]

I would need videos to offer specific advice. Pikachu is one of our bad MUs because he breaks zones really well thanks to Quick Attack.

That being said, laid back Pikachu shouldn't work against Pac-Man. If Pikachu insists on sitting back and launching Tjolts at Pac-Man, the latter can side B them to heal himself. When Pikachu starts abusing QA is when we have problems.

If the opponent is shielding everything, throw in more trampoline. It will beat their shield and pull them out of rolls/spotdodges.

Against characters that try to camp you, remember that our projectile game has greater variety than most characters. Between strawberry, orange, and apple, we can do air assaults that charge rather quickly, while also disrupting the ground game with hydrant water. Abuse the fact that we can charge in the air.

With galaxian, you can throw it on ground and follow knowing that it will tank non-piercing projectiles for you. When you get close, use your frame 1 trampoline to beat their defensive options. Most characters that have a considerable camping game have a sub par CQC game along with it, or bad grabs like us.

I have the same problem, I play very aggressively and I have trouble fighting smart, defensive players. I lost to just such a player in my weekend tournament. He played Samus masterfully and I couldn't find an opening. He was able to play the distance game and was able to react on a dime in a close quarters fight. I was completely outmatched and I would love to know how to beat these players.

I've had the most success vs Samus by abusing the fact that we can cover more angles faster than she can. She doesn't have a projectile like our apple to cover downwards and diagonally quickly.

 

[Tornado]

I would need videos to offer specific advice. Pikachu is one of our bad MUs because he breaks zones really well thanks to Quick Attack.

That being said, laid back Pikachu shouldn't work against Pac-Man. If Pikachu insists on sitting back and launching Tjolts at Pac-Man, the latter can side B them to heal himself. When Pikachu starts abusing QA is when we have problems.

If the opponent is shielding everything, throw in more trampoline. It will beat their shield and pull them out of rolls/spotdodges.

Against characters that try to camp you, remember that our projectile game has greater variety than most characters. Between strawberry, orange, and apple, we can do air assaults that charge rather quickly, while also disrupting the ground game with hydrant water. Abuse the fact that we can charge in the air.

With galaxian, you can throw it on ground and follow knowing that it will tank non-piercing projectiles for you. When you get close, use your frame 1 trampoline to beat their defensive options. Most characters that have a considerable camping game have a sub par CQC game along with it, or bad grabs like us.

I believe (and I could be wrong for I haven't done the research on this) that pikachu's thunder jolts will eat any and all fruits I throw his way.

I was also utilizing my trampolines the best I could in the match but spamming trampolines won't win the game. Like I said, this was really good beyond using his thunderjolts. Admittedly, I did forget to use my side B to grab pellets to heal and thus make him feel like he needed to stop using it. Even still, 5 minute, 3 stock, sudden death allowed on tied stocks. Wasn't an ideal setup. I felt I needed to rush a bit due to that format.

 

[BSP]

I believe (and I could be wrong for I haven't done the research on this) that pikachu's thunder jolts will eat any and all fruits I throw his way.

Key should pierce through. Jolts would have to do ~8-9% to make it lose its hitbox. Melon and below will be stopped by jolts most likely, I'd have to test Melon. Galaxian and Bell will keep going, but probably lose their hitboxes. At the least, all of them will absorb them for you.

I know what you mean about not having ideal timeout conditions. The clock tends to be on our side in this game, and it's a big deal to have it taken away.

 

[JohanVonBronx]

If I could see footage of it I could give more tips that actually applied to what you were dealing with. But I will say a really great way to stop people from spot-dodging you up close a lot is to use Pac-Man's grab. That's one thing that I do like about his grab is that it has just enough delay and just enough lingering time to catch someone spot-dodging most if not almost every time.

And if you can get the grab almost all of his grabs are decent options. I typically lean towards d-throws and u-throws. U-throws are great because Pac-Man has a really great air game. When I d-throw I typically will either throw a fruit at them or chase them and do two f-airs.