Starting to get competitive

[link and ike lover]

Mart is a great main, believe me. He's strong and has great throws and combos. Also, if u like marth, try ike

he is beast mode ike rocks and link

 

[Thor]

Ike is meh (-3 against MK but somehow even with ICs -_-), Link is terrible, Marth is fine (but the number of top level Marths is low, same for Pikachu except Pikachu has like 2 and maybe some more if you lower the line for 'top-level' or if these 'top-level' players are just really unheard of).

link and ike lover, SmasherP82, you're not good. I'm not good either and I clean up most people I play without trying - it's only when I face people who actually enter tournaments and stuff and win them that I know where I'm at. And some n00b marth can zero-death Falco but it doesn't make them good, it just means they have some tech skill and option coverage when Falco has like 2 options. And something tells me you aren't even zero-deathing Falcos or grab-release meteoring MKs. And beating level 9 CPUs doesn't make you good either, it just means you can beat predictable machines (3-stocking MKs with Ike is definitely funny though).

M2K is good for the record (you can call someone bad but your opinion is almost definitely worthless unless you have played and beaten them in a serious match, which also then implies you are the baseline for suck [you are only like a nanometer from suck if we measured what good vs suck is)]. I'm not going to debate if he's the best (not sure I care) but to say he's not good would definitely mean there is a VERY small percentage of people who are good [probably count them on two hands in Melee, if we're being generous, and they aren't decisively better (although Armada might be unbeaten against him, I don't follow Melee closely enough)].

Shion is probably not good but he's also probably not bad - somewhere in the middle, depending on how serious is. And he'd probably beat you since it would appear he's been around awhile longer, at least if he practices consistently.

Shion is also an idiot, who is unaware of how to deal with people who think they are good when they aren't. Also NickRiddle is completely right - find people better than you [or about as good as you, although that's less helpful] and play them. You should also figure out advanced techniques with your character and practice them.

P.S: Good Ikes are Ryo and San (maybe more?), good Marths are Mr. R, Mikeneko, Leon, and some others, a good link I know of is Izaw (who makes Link look viable - Vermanubis does similar things with Ganondorf). If you really want to use one of these characters, look for these people and matches they have on Youtube. There are also forums with videos here.

P.P.S: PSmasher82, link and ike lover, What do you think Ike's best move is & short explanation? [I'm curious how each of you'll answer...] {There's also at least 2 or 3 acceptable answers in my opinion} (EDIT: if you're unclear on what I mean by best you can give 2 or 3 and explain each of them)

 

[Marthcrazy101]

he is beast mode ike rocks and link

They are my other mains they are beast

 

[link and ike lover]

They are my other mains they are beast

Yeah baby they are god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! link and ike are number 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

["Shion"]

Ike is meh (-3 against MK but somehow even with ICs -_-), Link is terrible, Marth is fine (but the number of top level Marths is low, same for Pikachu except Pikachu has like 2 and maybe some more if you lower the line for 'top-level' or if these 'top-level' players are just really unheard of).

link and ike lover, SmasherP82, you're not good. I'm not good either and I clean up most people I play without trying - it's only when I face people who actually enter tournaments and stuff and win them that I know where I'm at. And some n00b marth can zero-death Falco but it doesn't make them good, it just means they have some tech skill and option coverage when Falco has like 2 options. And something tells me you aren't even zero-deathing Falcos or grab-release meteoring MKs. And beating level 9 CPUs doesn't make you good either, it just means you can beat predictable machines (3-stocking MKs with Ike is definitely funny though).

M2K is good for the record (you can call someone bad but your opinion is almost definitely worthless unless you have played and beaten them in a serious match, which also then implies you are the baseline for suck [you are only like a nanometer from suck if we measured what good vs suck is)]. I'm not going to debate if he's the best (not sure I care) but to say he's not good would definitely mean there is a VERY small percentage of people who are good [probably count them on two hands in Melee, if we're being generous, and they aren't decisively better (although Armada might be unbeaten against him, I don't follow Melee closely enough)].

Shion is probably not good but he's also probably not bad - somewhere in the middle, depending on how serious is. And he'd probably beat you since it would appear he's been around awhile longer, at least if he practices consistently.

Shion is also an idiot, who is unaware of how to deal with people who think they are good when they aren't. Also NickRiddle is completely right - find people better than you [or about as good as you, although that's less helpful] and play them. You should also figure out advanced techniques with your character and practice them.

P.S: Good Ikes are Ryo and San (maybe more?), good Marths are Mr. R, Mikeneko, Leon, and some others, a good link I know of is Izaw (who makes Link look viable - Vermanubis does similar things with Ganondorf). If you really want to use one of these characters, look for these people and matches they have on Youtube. There are also forums with videos here.

P.P.S: PSmasher82, link and ike lover, What do you think Ike's best move is & short explanation? [I'm curious how each of you'll answer...] {There's also at least 2 or 3 acceptable answers in my opinion} (EDIT: if you're unclear on what I mean by best you can give 2 or 3 and explain each of them)

Currently ranked top 6 in brawl in Illinois.

Not an idiot, lol. You're confusing trolling for idiocy. I'm a troll, and a damn good one apparently.

 

[Amical]

Currently ranked top 6 in brawl in Illinois.

Not an idiot, lol. You're confusing trolling for idiocy. I'm a troll, and a damn good one apparently.

I think you might have trolling and flaming confused. :/

 

[Thor]

I think you might have trolling and flaming confused. :/

Currently ranked top 6 in brawl in Illinois.

Not an idiot. You're confusing trolling for idiocy. I'm a troll, and a damn good one apparently.

I think flaming/trolling people who are brand new is idiocy dude. Like, you have the right to disagree with my opinion, but I think it's counterproductive and a bad way to help people get into competitive smash.

Also congrats on being ranked 6 in Brawl in Illinois [almost no one says top 6 unless they're 6th XD] (couldn't find vids on Youtube but w/e - cool to know though). And in this case, you're right then, you would probably kick their *** every time (or you'd be like, let's troll them and SD 3 times to convince them I'm bad, then $50 MM, then profit!)

I was also asking about Ike's moveset to see what they know about the game in terms of how it functions (I think you'd agree with me [on at least 2 of these I might not have them all right] that Ike's (3) best moves are jab, nair, and bair, with fair and utilt being defensible as also very good [if not "best"] - I was expecting one of them to be like "OH IT'S OBVI FSMASH YOU N00B" so we could laugh).

EDIT:

Yeah baby they are god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! link and ike are number 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're either trolling or haven't seen a tier list - there is a distinct difference between Link and Ike being cool (I agree) and Link and Ike being good (how I wish...).

Link gets gimped all year (heck, I think Ganondorf is okay offstage trying to edgeguard link if he's careful - those bair edgeguards) and has slow moves [frame 6 is the fastest - MK's dsmash is faster by 33%] while, Ike relies on reads and his jab/nair [and also has a lot of slow moves]. While you can play them and have fun doing so (I do, though not my mains), they're not anywhere near number 1.

 

["Shion"]

I think flaming/trolling people who are brand new is idiocy dude. Like, you have the right to disagree with my opinion, but I think it's counterproductive and a bad way to help people get into competitive smash.

Also congrats on being ranked 6 in Brawl in Illinois [almost no one says top 6 unless they're 6th XD] (couldn't find vids on Youtube but w/e - cool to know though). And in this case, you're right then, you would probably kick their *** every time (or you'd be like, let's troll them and SD 3 times to convince them I'm bad, then $50 MM, then profit!)



EDIT:


You're either trolling or haven't seen a tier list - there is a distinct difference between Link and Ike being cool (I agree) and Link and Ike being good (how I wish...).

Link gets gimped all year (heck, I think Ganondorf is okay offstage trying to edgeguard link if he's careful - those bair edgeguards) and has slow moves [frame 6 is the fastest - MK's dsmash is faster by 33%] while, Ike relies on reads and his jab/nair [and also has a lot of slow moves]. While you can play them and have fun doing so (I do, though not my mains), they're not anywhere near number 1.

That's just my personality as a human. I enjoy messing with people on a constant basis.

I know you have some friends who mess with peeps all the time, so you'll know what I'm talking about. I'd rather not be a random anon on this forum. I'm gonna be a loud mouth troll like i normally am. Gives life a little flavor.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

I think flaming/trolling people who are brand new is idiocy dude. Like, you have the right to disagree with my opinion, but I think it's counterproductive and a bad way to help people get into competitive smash.

Also congrats on being ranked 6 in Brawl in Illinois [almost no one says top 6 unless they're 6th XD] (couldn't find vids on Youtube but w/e - cool to know though). And in this case, you're right then, you would probably kick their *** every time (or you'd be like, let's troll them and SD 3 times to convince them I'm bad, then $50 MM, then profit!)

I was also asking about Ike's moveset to see what they know about the game in terms of how it functions (I think you'd agree with me [on at least 2 of these I might not have them all right] that Ike's (3) best moves are jab, nair, and bair, with fair and utilt being defensible as also very good [if not "best"] - I was expecting one of them to be like "OH IT'S OBVI FSMASH YOU N00B" so we could laugh).

EDIT:


You're either trolling or haven't seen a tier list - there is a distinct difference between Link and Ike being cool (I agree) and Link and Ike being good (how I wish...).

Link gets gimped all year (heck, I think Ganondorf is okay offstage trying to edgeguard link if he's careful - those bair edgeguards) and has slow moves [frame 6 is the fastest - MK's dsmash is faster by 33%] while, Ike relies on reads and his jab/nair [and also has a lot of slow moves]. While you can play them and have fun doing so (I do, though not my mains), they're not anywhere near number 1.

Dude link and ike lover is 10 yrs old (so I've heard). Don't worry about it.

That's just my personality as a human. I enjoy messing with people on a constant basis.

I know you have some friends who mess with peeps all the time, so you'll know what I'm talking about. I'd rather not be a random anon on this forum. I'm gonna be a loud mouth troll like i normally am. Gives life a little flavor.

I finally caught you acting normal. I win. :D
Oh btw, No. 6 in Illinois=no. 80 in so cal, Socal>Midwest/Central come at me bro

Spoiler

 

[Thor]

Dude link and ike lover is 10 yrs old (so I've heard). Don't worry about it.

Oh okay. Good to know to help me keep stuff in perspective.

That said, link and ike lover (and PSmasher 82), might not be a bad idea to practice jab cancelling if you want to do good with Ike - I'm sure you've seen Ryo and San do it (jab->crouch ->jab or I think some do jab->shield->jab?)? It'll help you kick some butt and tack on extra percent instead of just landing the neutral combo.

Also jab->utilt helps Ike KO people if they're dodging smashes and tilts - it can be DI'd out of but the other person has to be ready for it or react really quickly to do so.

[Much more/probably better advice can be seen on character boards, and I'm guessing you already knew this stuff].

EDIT:

I enjoy messing with people on a constant basis.

Have some pride. Go troll on the Tier List threads, they'd welcome you (by trolling you back).

I know you have some friends who mess with peeps all the time

XD Definitely not my friends although they call themselves that. They just view me as a source of entertainment and annoying otherwise (I'm useful as a diversion but if I approach them it's clear they'd rather be anywhere else). My friends are few and far between, but at least we respect each other enough take each other seriously [except when obviously appropriate, at which point we are generally far funnier than trolls like you].

 

[link and ike lover]

I think flaming/trolling people who are brand new is idiocy dude. Like, you have the right to disagree with my opinion, but I think it's counterproductive and a bad way to help people get into competitive smash.

Also congrats on being ranked 6 in Brawl in Illinois [almost no one says top 6 unless they're 6th XD] (couldn't find vids on Youtube but w/e - cool to know though). And in this case, you're right then, you would probably kick their *** every time (or you'd be like, let's troll them and SD 3 times to convince them I'm bad, then $50 MM, then profit!)

I was also asking about Ike's moveset to see what they know about the game in terms of how it functions (I think you'd agree with me [on at least 2 of these I might not have them all right] that Ike's (3) best moves are jab, nair, and bair, with fair and utilt being defensible as also very good [if not "best"] - I was expecting one of them to be like "OH IT'S OBVI FSMASH YOU N00B" so we could laugh).

EDIT:


You're either trolling or haven't seen a tier list - there is a distinct difference between Link and Ike being cool (I agree) and Link and Ike being good (how I wish...).

Link gets gimped all year (heck, I think Ganondorf is okay offstage trying to edgeguard link if he's careful - those bair edgeguards) and has slow moves [frame 6 is the fastest - MK's dsmash is faster by 33%] while, Ike relies on reads and his jab/nair [and also has a lot of slow moves]. While you can play them and have fun doing so (I do, though not my mains), they're not anywhere near number 1.

uhhhhh yes they r in my opinion

 

[Thor]

uhhhhh yes they r in my opinion

Oh I misunderstood then.

 

[link and ike lover]

I think flaming/trolling people who are brand new is idiocy dude. Like, you have the right to disagree with my opinion, but I think it's counterproductive and a bad way to help people get into competitive smash.

Also congrats on being ranked 6 in Brawl in Illinois [almost no one says top 6 unless they're 6th XD] (couldn't find vids on Youtube but w/e - cool to know though). And in this case, you're right then, you would probably kick their *** every time (or you'd be like, let's troll them and SD 3 times to convince them I'm bad, then $50 MM, then profit!)

I was also asking about Ike's moveset to see what they know about the game in terms of how it functions (I think you'd agree with me [on at least 2 of these I might not have them all right] that Ike's (3) best moves are jab, nair, and bair, with fair and utilt being defensible as also very good [if not "best"] - I was expecting one of them to be like "OH IT'S OBVI FSMASH YOU N00B" so we could laugh).

EDIT:


You're either trolling or haven't seen a tier list - there is a distinct difference between Link and Ike being cool (I agree) and Link and Ike being good (how I wish...).

Link gets gimped all year (heck, I think Ganondorf is okay offstage trying to edgeguard link if he's careful - those bair edgeguards) and has slow moves [frame 6 is the fastest - MK's dsmash is faster by 33%] while, Ike relies on reads and his jab/nair [and also has a lot of slow moves]. While you can play them and have fun doing so (I do, though not my mains), they're not anywhere near number 1.

There is no such thing as a incredible or worst character everybody has their own list I don't care about that list a care abot my own list

 

["Shion"]

Say that while playing Ganon in a serious tournament.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Say that while playing Ganon in a serious tournament.

Yeah agreed. tho to be fair there have been some good ganon's in melee tourney's. Sure they don't get very far but they hold their own.
...
Oh wait your talking about brawl.... yeah lol ganon is horrible in a 1 vs 1 tourney.

 

[Niko Mar]

Haha I think we should start a "future challenge" thread or something for Smash 4 so we can see who's really better (because Brawl is definitely not happening online lol).

@OP : After playing Smash for as long as I have, I can tell you that watching competitive videos doesn't help at all (at least for me). The best way to get better is to keep on playing, and challenging stronger players to push your skills to the limit. Just go to any tournament you can find, fight your friends, and start playing online a lot in Smash 4 (with it hopefully being good). I still go to some local tournaments in hopes that I'll get to face someone better than myself, and then beat them.

 

[Marthcrazy101]

I think that everyone is free to make their own choices, shion. Plz be nice to him

 

[Marthcrazy101]

Haha I think we should start a "future challenge" thread or something for Smash 4 so we can see who's really better (because Brawl is definitely not happening online lol).

@OP : After playing Smash for as long as I have, I can tell you that watching competitive videos doesn't help at all (at least for me). The best way to get better is to keep on playing, and challenging stronger players to push your skills to the limit. Just go to any tournament you can find, fight your friends, and start playing online a lot in Smash 4 (with it hopefully being good). I still go to some local tournaments in hopes that I'll get to face someone better than myself, and then beat them.

I totally agree man.

 

[link and ike lover]

I think that everyone is free to make their own choices, shion. Plz be nice to him

Shion be nice to everyone!

 

[Thor]

I can tell you that watching competitive videos doesn't help at all (at least for me).

For you maybe, but when I watch them I see how some combos go down and also can see how some characters deal with certain tactics of other characters, but you have to watch closely - if you watch for fun (which I do most of the time), you're right it's not terribly useful.

Also, begging Shion to be nice will probably make him come back meaner. He seems like that type of person. But there's nothing to prevent you from ignoring him...

EDIT: Use edit button, don't double (or triple) post. On some forums, you might actually be infracted for that, here I'm pretty sure no one cares. [accidental double posts do occur and aren't infracted if one of them is edited to reflect the accident]

 

[Niko Mar]

For you maybe, but when I watch them I see how some combos go down and also can see how some characters deal with certain tactics of other characters, but you have to watch closely - if you watch for fun (which I do most of the time), you're right it's not terribly useful.

Combos aren't like other games in Smash lol. Most of the "combos" are pretty situational, having you just think fast to chose the best follow-up move. I also don't see how watching videos helps you to deal with tactics of other characters. That's something you should figure out by playing the game yourself. Copying someone's strategies is only going to make you predictable, so it's better to come up with your own tactics.

But I digress, if they actually help you then go for it. I shouldn't be one to judge because everyone is different in the way they learn.

 

[Thor]

I mean sometimes I have LITERALLY no idea how to do something and they do it 4 different ways and it's like OH I didn't think of that. Also don't have access to Olimar mains (and some other characters) around here so seeing some helps me figure out what good ones do so if I face a good one I have ideas.

And I do cook up my own tactics, but I also don't mind seeing others that people use - helps give an idea of what works (to some extent). And you're not going to try to tell me that the tried and (so far most true) tactics of camping ICs you're going to magically replace on your own - sometimes people have figured out what works and works as well as can be expected, vs constantly being frustrated by how to deal with a character that zero-deaths everyone out of a grab. There are something that can be directly implemented, just very few and far between.

But as you said, to each his own.

EDIT: Also, nice new avatar thing.

 

[TopTierPichu]

this thread is half flame ware, half not relevant to this board

 

[Xykness]

If you are looking to get competitive, check out the current tier list for whatever game you are wanting to get competitive at.
http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Tier_list

A tier list is basically the rankings of a character's potential in tournaments. This may help you in your decision for a main. Just because someone is first on the tier list, does not always mean that you will perform best with them, so keep that in mind! I have never used a character that was first on the tier list. In Melee, I use Falco and Luigi (2nd and 14th) and I perform pretty well at tournaments!

After choosing a main, look up advanced techniques for that character on YouTube. Usually you can find one pretty easily and sit at your system with the laptop beside you as you practice each technique. Discipline yourself in the techniques. One can not simply master a character in one sitting. Go in training mode and practice without interference. Once you feel a little more comfortable, practice with other smash players in a fight! Players will not (usually) stand still for you to perform the techniques, so you need to practice them in the heat of battle.

Ask for a bit of an evaluation after a match. A LOT of Smash players are more than willing to help you in your Smash growth. A little criticism can go a long way and stop you from doing stupid things that you never really realized you were doing!

More than anything, stay positive. Your performance relies a lot on your mindset. If you tell yourself that you can't accomplish something, then you won't give 100% in your performance. Tell yourself you can do it and learn from mistakes. Be friendly to people and don't be a jerk when you win, but also don't be a sore loser. Nobody likes to be around those Smashers and you will be known by your attitude in the midst of a match.

I hope this helps out! Welcome to the scene

 

[Thor]

If you are looking to get competitive, check out the current tier list for whatever game you are wanting to get competitive at.
http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Tier_list

A tier list is basically the rankings of a character's potential in tournaments. This may help you in your decision for a main. Just because someone is first on the tier list, does not always mean that you will perform best with them, so keep that in mind! I have never used a character that was first on the tier list. In Melee, I use Falco and Luigi (2nd and 14th) and I perform pretty well at tournaments!

After choosing a main, look up advanced techniques for that character on YouTube. Usually you can find one pretty easily and sit at your system with the laptop beside you as you practice each technique. Discipline yourself in the techniques. One can not simply master a character in one sitting. Go in training mode and practice without interference. Once you feel a little more comfortable, practice with other smash players in a fight! Players will not (usually) stand still for you to perform the techniques, so you need to practice them in the heat of battle.

Ask for a bit of an evaluation after a match. A LOT of Smash players are more than willing to help you in your Smash growth. A little criticism can go a long way and stop you from doing stupid things that you never really realized you were doing!

More than anything, stay positive. Your performance relies a lot on your mindset. If you tell yourself that you can't accomplish something, then you won't give 100% in your performance. Tell yourself you can do it and learn from mistakes. Be friendly to people and don't be a jerk when you win, but also don't be a sore loser. Nobody likes to be around those Smashers and you will be known by your attitude in the midst of a match.

I hope this helps out! Welcome to the scene

Xykness clearly didn't read most of the thread, or chose to ignore [almost] all of it.

That said, I agree with him quite a bit. Also on that thread, you can click a character image on the tier list to read a summary of the character and a brief explanation of why they are where they are - it's not all accurate (I know of at least one issue off the top of my head and I'm sure I've seen more) but the list itself is accurate and you can start to see why certain characters shake out where they do.

Also basics might be even more important than advanced techniques (spacing, being able to execute any move on command, generic ATs that new players don't use like shield-grabbing and jumping OoS, etc.) in case you switch mains (most Falco tech is wasted if you switch to MK or Ganondorf, for example)) but learning advanced techniques is still a good idea.

 

[EverythingSmash]

Heres some tips for someone starting of:
- When you do go to a tournament, try to play as many friendly matches as possible.
- After each match, try to figure out what your opponent is doing better then you.
- Lastly, don't be afraid to loose. If you want to improve you have to play people better then you are, thats just how it works.

As far as videos go, you can learn a lot by watching guides on youtube (hopefully I'll have some from brawl posted soon on my channel), and by watching people at a high level play your character. Once you find out a character you want to main, watch as many high level matches with that character as possible and pay attention to how they react to different situations!

& I know this sounds cliché but practice really makes perfect.

 

[Xykness]

Xykness clearly didn't read most of the thread, or chose to ignore [almost] all of it.

I was quickly answering the original question, but I see everything I've missed now that I have caught up on everything that was "discussed" haha.

this thread is half flame ware, half not relevant to this board

This should be the new thread title.

 

[Thor]

practice really makes perfect.

False. Practice makes consistency, which also perfectly explains why someone can dominate level 9s and get their *** kicked by real players - bad habits can be formed too (CPUs are predictable, real people usually less so). That said, if you practice DACUS, etc., enough, you'll eventually be able to do them nearly flawlessly, which makes being good much easier.

Also I agree, rename this half flame war, half... [not sure what to call the other half]

 

[pitthekit]

Play characters with really hard learning curves cuz they will make you perform moar imputs and be aware of everything . Jugglypuff,fox,falco,peach,Zss all have high learning curves in their respected smash games. Also good advice for smash is to not actively seek stuff. Like trying to grab someone repeativly for a combo. They will retreat and jab you.

 

[pitthekit]

False. Practice makes consistency, which also perfectly explains why someone can dominate level 9s and get their *** kicked by real players - bad habits can be formed too (CPUs are predictable, real people usually less so). That said, if you practice DACUS, etc., enough, you'll eventually be able to do them nearly flawlessly, which makes being good much easier.

Also I agree, rename this half flame war, half... [not sure what to call the other half]

I only battle CPUs to see how they counter something like I will spam nado just too see how they will counter it... For fun.

 

[Thor]

stuff about testing

They're fine for testing stuff I guess, but like... just don't think 3-stocking a level 9 MK with ___ means you're tournament-ready. (I've 3-stocked MK several times with Ike and almost got the JV 4-stock a couple times - my Ike is still bad.) And CPUs tend to walk into smashes while you're charging them (Project M fixed this somewhat...) which is a bad habit. They have other issues too (putting themselves into positions where I can just meteor smash them...) and being prepared to exploit these things is irrelevant because good players avoid doing stuff like that and will punish you for it.