Starting to feel FSMs won't be good for casual play, either...

[S_B]

Been watching a lot of footage of ultimate (like I'm sure most of us have been doing) and an unfortunate realization hit me:

Due to the unbalanced nature of final smashes across different characters, final smash meters are going to harm casual play, possibly even more so than competitive play.

In all my casual play experience, it wasn't uncommon for players to gravitate toward the character(s) that were generally the easiest to win with. My Melee casual matches from back in the day absolutely saw this as we had one player who figured out how easy it was to use Marth's tipper range to "cherrypick" kills when two other players were locked in combat. He'd wait until someone was high enough % and distracted, then sneak in and steal the KO, forcing us to hunt him the entire match to stop him from doing it or just using stock (which we didn't always want to do).

A similar issue is going to arise in Ultimate with FSMs: certain characters have final smashes that require perfect timing of a button press when right in front of an opponent who isn't dodging. Meanwhile, OTHER characters can simply press B anywhere on the screen and basically guarantee a KO from an unavoidable (or incredibly difficult to avoid) final smash.

Had FSMs been a mechanic back in my casual SSB days (and with Ultimate's final smashes), we may very well have started banning characters like Diddy, Peach/Daisy, and many of the "beam" characters (final smashes that are basically a huge beam that sweeps the majority of the stage). Either that, or we'd always have to be playing as them.

Remember, "casual" doesn't mean a player who's so dumb as to be awestruck by the bright flashing images on the screen and therefore content. Casual players also try to win, will gravitate toward effective characters or strategies, and over time definitely shy away from using characters who need to land their final smashes with a well-timed button press as opposed to those who can typically guarantee one or more KOs just by pressing B.

I feel like my casual group of friends would turn FSMs off after enough playtime for the same reason competitive players will: such a massive advantage shouldn't be guaranteed, especially with so little counterplay, and it limits the pool of characters we'll want to use as a result.

 

[SorrowOfAcheron]

Well, I think that it is entirely on you (not you specifically, TC) and your friends.
Playing with the FSM turned on means you're pretty much game for anything; if your desire to win is greater than your desire to play a character with a weaker FS, then that's how it is.

The only real way to fix it is by making all FSs have the same function (guaranteed KO, huge AoE etc) and that'd be pretty boring.

It's just one of those things you have to decide with your buddies.

I honestly don't think this will hurt casual play that much, unless you're (again not you specifically) someone who's absolutely hellbent on winning/gets very salty whenever you lose (which is nothing new; there's always salty people).
If you're a more 'hardcore' casual who actually looks to improve at the game I don't think basing your character choice on their FS is a good way to do that.

 

[1FC0]

Any game element that is ruining the game by being OP will be more harmful in competitive play than in casual play because in competitive play it will be abused to it's fullest since by definition people play to win while in casual play it will not be abused as much since people do not try hard to win.

 

[S_B]

Any game element that is ruining the game by being OP will be more harmful in competitive play than in casual play because in competitive play it will be abused to it's fullest since by definition people play to win while in casual play it will not be abused as much since people do not try hard to win.

I say it because I feel the harder to avoid final smashes will likely be worse to contend with for casual players than competitive players.

But either way, I feel like FSMs are going to be disabled for a lot of groups of casual friends as well. It's one thing to have smash balls enabled, but when it becomes a guaranteed thing every X% dealt or taken, it's going to feel too much like characters with better FSes are necessary, even in casual play.

 

[pap64]

Well, wasn't the Smash meter almost universally agreed upon that the meter would be banned from tournament play anyway? And like everyone else has said, for casual play, it all depends on the kind of group you are playing with since you can also turn off items, stage hazards, turn stages into alpha and omega modes and more.

 

[1FC0]

What I hate the most is that it charges if you take damage. It rewards you even for playing bad. Lucario, Little Mac, and Cloud do the same and I think it is stupid.

 

[Kairyu24]

They seem a bit frantic in 1vs1 games.

It maybe be playtested/adjusted for 4 player, or even 8 player, but I do fear a situation with many active players causes eating several final smashes in a row both really messed the flow up, but also will ensure the damage taken makes good headway in charging the first gauge again and so on. Final smashes always have been made unequal, but in the past the Smash Ball ensures players have the liberty of actively blocking dangerous characters from getting the smash ball. With the gauges the best FS dominate more. There's next to nothing to stop a gauge still in the process of filling up.

In longer-lasting free for all's it might evoke the same effect as the classic Pokeballs on very high setting, which can be good fun if all are up to it.

 

[S_B]

Well, wasn't the Smash meter almost universally agreed upon that the meter would be banned from tournament play anyway? And like everyone else has said, for casual play, it all depends on the kind of group you are playing with since you can also turn off items, stage hazards, turn stages into alpha and omega modes and more.

Yeah, but even for casual play, I can see players gravitating toward characters that have guaranteed final smashes instead of ones that actually need to land them. That's what makes me feel as though most groups of casuals aren't going to want to play with them on, either.

And it might encourage the devs to rebalance some of the FSM final smashes as a result.

 

[pap64]

Yeah, but even for casual play, I can see players gravitating toward characters that have guaranteed final smashes instead of ones that actually need to land them. That's what makes me feel as though most groups of casuals aren't going to want to play with them on, either.

And it might encourage the devs to rebalance some of the FSM final smashes as a result.

It's true. Like take Bowser and K.Rool for instance...

While Bowser's Final Smash be really big, you still need to carefully aim and push the button for an instant KO. K.Rool on the other hand all he needs to do is be near an opponent and boom, instant hit.

And even though that logic applies to almost every character, since all Final Smashes have been streamlined, some even happen automatically like Sonic, Pikachu and Pac-Man. I can see that being a problem not in the competitive scene since like I said I bet they will ban it anyway, but for casual play it may be irritating.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Someone is going to lose to some DBZ **** involved with the FSM and we'll be having this conversation again. Mark my words.