Smash Wii U Stance on Stages: What are your personal favorite and least favorite stages?

[Javln Mastr]

The stages in Smash 4 is easily the best selection in the series yet. Though I know most of you have common distaste in certain stages, *cough* MS Paint *cough*, I'm interested to see what your favorites' list is. Here is my personal list, and I created several groups to place all the stages in based on my admiration, or contempt, in no particular order (unless numbered) Also, I'm not including Battlefield or Final Destination, because they're staples.

Yeah... let's pick another stage...
-Flat Zone X: Camera is panned out, and the music selection hurts my ears
-MS Paint Land: Because sidescroller stages are whack, and the music selection isn't for me. This is the only stage where I have retro music turned on 0_0
-Yoshi's Island: Too crunched together, and the yellow blocks mess me up.
-75M: Appreciate the concept, but I can't play with Little Mac here...
-Mario Circuit Brawl: Boring

I sort of like them, but nothing stands out, and/or is overshadowed by my favorite stages
-Boxing Ring
-Garden of Hope
-Jungle Hijinks
-Pilotwings
-The Great Cave Offensive
-Wii Fit Studio
-Windy Hill Zone
-Dr. Wily's Castle
-Kongo Jungle 64
-Onett
-Bridge of Eldin
-Halberd
-Lylat Cruise
-Pokemon Stadium 2
-Port Town Aero Dive
-Skyworld
-Smashville

Now these, I pick regularly, and are a blast to play on
-Duck Hunt
-Gamer
-Gaur Plain
-Mario Circuit
-Mario Galaxy
-Mushroom Kingdom U
-Orbital Gate Assault
-Pyrosphere
-Town and City
-Woolly World
-Wrecking Crew
-Temple
-Castle Siege
-Delfino Plaza
-Luigi's Mansion
-Norfair

Top 5
5. Palutena's Temple: I have an Uprising bias, and the music selection are some of the best from the original game. Large but not too large like GCO in my opinion, a lot of environments to battle in.
4. Coliseum: Basic layout, and the appearing platforms diversify the match as it continues. There can't be a better place to duke it out than in the warrior's arena!
3. Kalos Pokemon League: Great music selection. I like how the four rooms were integrated based on the source material, and the hazards all compliment each other by providing a lot of variety.
2. Wuhu Island: Locations are great for a drop-off stage. Environment feels really good to play in, and the Wii Sports music really pumps you up!
1. Skyloft: Great drop-off locations. Large platform that changes it's smaller platforms every time it picks you up. The music selection is amazing, and I have a Zelda bias

So that's my list, what are yours? Do you like the 3DS selection better? Write down below some of your favorites, or the one's you turn off on the random selection button

 

[ATH_]

Compeitively Favorite: Smashville
Competitively Hated: Duck Hunt (as in only stages that are considered 'competitive')

Casually Favorite (with friends): Wuhu Island (I love this stage for both comp and casual)
Casually Hated: Pyrosphere/GCO (Thought GCO was predictable so included my second most-hated)

 

[Morbi]

Honestly, I hate battlefield myself. It is certainly my least favorite stage by a significant margin. I suppose the music selection is dull and repetitious, the background is unoriginal and feels recycled and I hate platforms that are too close to each other. People pretend as though it is the definitive neutral stage, that honor goes to Smashville. There are no other stages that I completely and utterly dislike. 75m is okay from time to time if you want to try something different. Battlefield is never okay.

My favorite stage is Final Destination. Not Final Destination specifically, but the omega modes of each stage. Obviously you get the most variety in the game for one stage and I prefer the lack of platforms more often than not. However, if we are not counting Final Destination...

Kongo Jungle 64 is probably my favorite non-omega stage in this particular game. I have always been fond of it and usually I do not really enjoy warm color pallets, but Kong Jungle 64 is tolerable. Temple is a close second. It was one of my favorites in Melee, which is saying something as I enjoyed every Melee stage. What can I say? I love classic stages.

 

[Grass]

Honestly, I hate battlefield myself.

I hated BF even in Melee, so don't get me started son.

 

[Xermo]

Pac-Land is the best stage, get out of here.

Also Magicant.

 

[Javln Mastr]

Honestly, I hate battlefield myself. It is certainly my least favorite stage by a significant margin. I suppose the music selection is dull and repetitious, the background is unoriginal and feels recycled and I hate platforms that are too close to each other. People pretend as though it is the definitive neutral stage, that honor goes to Smashville. There are no other stages that I completely and utterly dislike. 75m is okay from time to time if you want to try something different. Battlefield is never okay.

My favorite stage is Final Destination. Not Final Destination specifically, but the omega modes of each stage. Obviously you get the most variety in the game for one stage and I prefer the lack of platforms more often than not. However, if we are not counting Final Destination...

Kongo Jungle 64 is probably my favorite non-omega stage in this particular game. I have always been fond of it and usually I do not really enjoy warm color pallets, but Kong Jungle 64 is tolerable. Temple is a close second. It was one of my favorites in Melee, which is saying something as I enjoyed every Melee stage. What can I say? I love classic stages.

Interesting stance on Battlefield. I'm under the impression that most people see it as a neutral stage, and I'll give you that on it being redundant. I personally like all the music besides the main theme, but I still have it turned on in my music, by a little.

 

[Kraton9000]

Personally, I usually play on Omega stages. But, when it does come to actually playing the original stages, my favourites have to be (in no particular order):

- Skyloft (Great music, superbly varying platform layout, great aesthetics/feel)
- Bridge of Eldin (Straight walk-off stage, Good Music, Interesting Bomb mechanic that diversifies gameplay)
- Lylat Cruise (Small yet diverse layout, great music, epic backdrops, fox + falco smash taunt)
- Castle Siege (3 distinct and diverse layouts, splendid aesthetics/feel, epic soundtrack)
- Coliseum (Very simple and very diverse at the same time, Straight Walk-off stage, epic soundtrack, warrior-like feel/aesthetics)
- Boxing Ring (Breaks from traditional smash stage norm, straight walk-off stage, ropes + light mechanic adds some nice depth/variety, Punch-Out theme song is uncomparable, fighter slogans)
- Halbred (Good Drop off location, great background, great music, intersting ship-take off mechanic)
- Duck Hunt (Because you can fight ducks while listening to a ******** song)

Also, I don't understand all the hate against Pac-Land. Personally, I find it a change of pace and quite fun from time to time. What I really can't stand is 75m. I don't understand who thought making that stage was a good idea and who thought that bringing it back was an even better idea. Honestly, it is just terrible.

 

[beethedesigner]

Yoshi's Island (Brawl) if for no reason other than the nostalgia factor. (Not to mention, I'm a little biased, if you couldn't tell.) Besides, that one simple tilting platform smack dab in the middle makes for some interesting play.

And don't hate on the Support Ghost. You know you can't help but laugh every time it unwittingly manages to save some poor soul from certain death.

 

[IFC Jigglypuff]

favorite casual stage: Kalos Pokémon League or Gamer.
least favorite casual stage: Pac-Land (screen scrolling stages are so boring imo.)

favorite competitive stage: Town & City
least favorite competitive stage: KJ64 or Duck Hunt. (KJ 64's layout is really awkward too me. & the dog in Duck Hunt messes up my combos every single time.

 

[Kikkipoptart12]

I hate Yoshi lsland and 75m, why they keep bring back these stages they so hard to play on for me, The bricks gets in the way on Yoshi and the way the stage is shape makes it worst. 75m DK, Springs, and fire balls get in the way too much, and they took away this stage saving grace that ledge on the side.

My favorite stages are the boxing ring and Gaur plains. the boxing ring I like knocking down the lights and the characters Aliases.
Gaur plains the music, the stage changing from night to day, Metal face adds a little life and don't get in the way as much as other characters bosses do.

 

[Savangardius Corsio]

I'm gonna post my top 5 favorite stages, with no particular order in said top lol:

"Orbital Gate Assault". THIS STAGE IS AWESOME. This stage is beautiful, the background, and the way it shows you everything that is going on while the fight takes place. Now, I understand that for most people all that flying around from spaceship to spaceship and the way it happens can be annoying, but for me it's ok, you just have to pay attention to everything.

I think one of the major reasons I like this stage, is the fact that it comes from my favorite Star Fox game, and from one of my favorite missions, oh and talking about it, it's nice to see that the stage recreates said mission a bit. Last thing, the Star Fox songs for this stage are good, I have all of them maxed out.

"Jungle Hijinxs". The stage in general is pleasant to look at, especially the background, it's well done. The stage mechanic is actually interesting, it's unique in a way. Truly a nice stage, and imho the best DK stage.

"Temple". This is my favorite big stage (closely followed by The Great Cave Offensive) since melee. Normally, fighting on these kind of stages might get a bit annoying for some, but I never got frustrated with this stage.

It has such a nice calmed atmosphere, and god the song, the Temple Theme song is wonderful, goes well with the stage in general. Also I like how you can fight in 3 general sections of the stage, the lower one being the funniest imo.

"Norfair". One of my favorites beacuse of the hazards. It has A LOT of lava, additional points for that. The hazards make this stage chaotic by nature, and the atmosphere really shows you you have to be careful.

Normally, because of all the danger and the way the platforms are placed, the stage forces players to be mobile and that makes matches more, let's say, intense. The songs it has are nice I guess, I don't dislike them.

"Boxing Ring". No doubt, one of the best stages from the Wii U version. There's something about fighting on the ring that makes me like this stage a lot, any of you feel the same?. It's simple, but effective. Now let's talk about the background, it's one of the coolest backgrounds imo, also I appreciate how the stage doesn't feel like it is floating, because it's an interior stage, which was a nice detail btw.

Well, in general the atmosphere is excellent, and most songs from Punch-Out!! are amazing.

The stages I don't like are:

"75m".

"PAC-LAND".

"Skyworld".

"Mario Galaxy".

and "Yoshi's Island".

Aside from these, I'm happy with all the stages we got.

 

[pershona]

Competitively favorite: Smashville and Battlefield, both great balanced neutral stages.
Competitively hated: Halberd.
Casually favorite: Temple and Palutena's Temple, my favorites for 8player smash.
Casually hated: 75m and Pac-Land, these stages just aren't fun to me in any way all. Mostly for being ugly or annoying layout.

 

[Archimedes]

I love Smashville, Battlefield, Delfino Plaza, Kongo Jungle 64, Onett, and Temple.
I hate Jungle Hijinks, Paluntena's Temple, Wolly World, 75m, and Doctor Wily's Castle.

That all said this is just generally what I like and hate, not for competitive reasons. Just some gimmicks and hazards are stupid all together.

 

[Jdaster64]

I dislike:
Pyrosphere (disruptive / arbitrarily allied stage boss)
75m (not the worst in casual 8P, but horrible in <4P and Solo modes)
Garden of Hope (don't know why, but the hazards / obstacles seem really annoying; I wish Distant Planet were back instead)
Gaur Plain (literally the worst stage layout in the game)
Port Town Aero Dive (cars kill way too early)
Big Battlefield (seems too big, even for 8 players; Battlefield is fine)

I am neutral on but tend not to play:
GCO (you have to have the right group for this)
Orbital Gate (too much going on for even a reasonably casual fight)
PAC-Land (don't mind it personally, I always like traveling sidescrollers, but most of my friends can't stand it. Shame, as the music selection is one of my favorites)
Kalos League, Pokémon Stadium 2 (transformations are occasionally annoying)
Jungle Hijinxs (dual-plane thing would work better in a traveling stage, IMO)
Final Destination / Omega (there's so many more interesting layouts, plus the 3DS's stage roster made it so my friends picked this literally 100% of the time)

I love:
Onett (always a great casual map, better music than ever, bring us Magicant on the Wii U dangit)
Gamer (that one co-op event made this go from one of my least favorite to most favorite stages overnight)
Halberd (decent layout, reasonable hazards, best music)
Wii Fit Studio (interesting dynamic platforms, mirrors let you see to the edge of the blast zone)
Mario Galaxy (fun neutral stage, awesome music selection)
Delfino / Skyloft / Wuhu / MC Wii U (fun travelling stages)
Smashville, Town & City, Battlefield (good and neutral)

The rest I pretty much always have on, but am more neutral towards personally.

 

[Munomario777]

My favorite stage is custom stages. It's pretty much the only thing I usually play on in multiplayer, to be honest. There's always something new to play on (I've usually made at least one new stage between sessions), there's so many options, and the only limitation is your imagination (and the weight limit). I've posted some of my stages a while back over at the custom stages thread, but I've made quite a few since then; I'll probably post some more there sometime in the future.

 

[iongammarays]

I really hate Duck Hunt. The area where the platforms are is super vague and the dog can interrupt aerial combos. I really like playing on Omega Wily Castle. The music is great and the wall jump benefits all of my characters.

 

[Azew]

I really like Arena Ferox, mostly just because it's Fire Emblem. I don't like it's Wii U counterpart as Coliseum as much however, because it's the same concept with walk offs...

 

[HeroOfClocktown]

My favorite stage is custom stages. It's pretty much the only thing I usually play on in multiplayer, to be honest. There's always something new to play on (I've usually made at least one new stage between sessions), there's so many options, and the only limitation is your imagination (and the weight limit).

Agree with this, stage builder makes it possible to have so many different types of outcomes.

If I had to pick out of the stages we're given though, Wuhu Island is great & Halberd.

 

[Lazyboy0337]

For fun: Orbital Gate, Gamer, Kongo 64, Woolly World
For serious: Battlefield, Smashville, Duck Hunt
Avoid at all costs: Temple, Palutena's Temple, Great Cave

 

[Kenith]

My favorite stages, in order:

1. Skyloft - Skyward Sword is one of my favorite Zelda games and this stage is really fun.

2. Pyrosphere - As weird as it seems, Ridley makes this stage fun for me. He's not nearly as intrusive as Yellow Devil and it's kind of like having a fifth player. Also this stage has some sweet music...even if half of it is Ridley remixes.

3. Mario Galaxy - I love the Mario Galaxy games and this stage has some of the best music in the game. Also, that Galaxy-style lighting is beautiful.

4. Coliseum - This stage is where epic duels take place. Some really awesome music and cool scenery make Coliseum awesome.

5. Boxing Ring - This stage has awesome music, as well as being a great place for screwing around with items and having awesome battles.



Now, for my least favorite stages, in order as well:

1. Orbital Gate Assault - I don't think I've ever been killed by another player on this stage. It's always been the terrain suddenly shifting around and exploding at any given moment. Plus there's like, two noteworthy songs on this stage.

2. Garden of Hope - I have no idea why I hate this stage so much. I just do. It's such a chore to traverse it and those crab things are no ****ing joke. They hit really hard. Even Distant Planet was better than this.

3. Palutena's Temple - I thought I would love this stage due to how large it is. Instead, I can't stand it. It hurts my eyes to play on this stage because I have to squint to see my character, and the layout is really boring.

4. Kalos Pokemon League - This is another stage where I feel like the hazards are way too annoying...and lethal. While I like the music selection, it's not worth playing this stage.

5. All Custom Stages - As much as I hate to admit it, yeah. They're glitchy and have even less interesting setpieces than Brawl. As in, none. No spikes, no ice, no ladders, no conveyor belts, what gives, Nintendo? This is one of the most fun parts of Brawl and you butchered it all to hell.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

My favourite stage competitively is Battlefield. The platforms are perfect for sharking and pressurising your opponent with aerials. However, my favourite stage for a non-competitive atmosphere would be Omega Skyworld. The gold and white colour scheme is pretty, along with the great music that can be heard there.

Least favourites? I don't hate any stage, but my least favourite competitive stage would have to be Lylat Cruise. Instead of snapping to the ledge when recovering, I just smack my skull underneath it
I also kind of find Pac-Land, Wrecking Crew, and Mario Circuit to be simply boring.

 

[Schnee117]

5 favourite stages (in no particular order)

- Gaur Plain (despite the issues regarding inaccuracies). Awesome music, MF being the only decent stage boss and Xenoblade bias.
- Arena Ferox/Coliseum - Essentially the same stage but with different backgrounds and the walk-offs. FE bias reigns here.
- Mario Galaxy - Jergingha and Dark Bowser. That is all.
- Pilotwings - Wonderful 101 bias plus it does the travelling thing right *coughothertravellingstagescough*
- Halberd - Music choices plus it has very few gimmicks so it's nice and enjoyable.

5 least favourite stages

- Pyrosphere - Oh yay another lava themed Metroid stage with an insulting representation of Ridley
- Jungle Hijinx - Too many remixes of the same song, too many dumb gimmicks - 7.8/10 - me
- Wily Castle - Yellow Devil...
- Magicant - Flying Man...
- 75m - Why did this return and not Kongo Jungle (Melee)?

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

Favorite stages:

• Kalos Pokemon League because so many Pokemon in the background...and the music. Vs Cynthia was underwhelming though compared to the original.
• Onett because music. Otherwise I do get tired of having it in every game since Melee. I got excited over it again because they added a remix of the original BG theme for Onett which shouldn't have taken 2 games of being absent before being in this.
• Mario Galaxy because music.
  
• Pyrosphere because you get to beat up Ridley.
• Gaur Plains only because Metal Face. Otherwise I would have been annoyed.
• Orbital Gate Assault because background transitions in this are beautiful as well as liking the Star Fox conversations.
• Gamer because I like playing the mini game of hiding from the mom at the same time.

Least favorite stages:

• Duck Hunt because I always lost a life or two here while attempting the challenge to beat 9.0 without losing a life.
• 75M because layout. I'll admit they improved it from Brawl because you can go under from the top in certain sections now.
• Great Cave Offensive because hard to kill anyone there.
• Palutena's Temple because same reason plus a lot of traveling. I like the Palutena's Guidance though.

 

[FunkyKapu615]

Fav: Duck Hunt, PAC-LAND, Gamer, Mario Curcuit (Wiiu), PAC-MAZE, Tortimer Island, Prism Tower, Living Room, and Wii Fit Studio

Least: 75m that is all

 

[KimKarsmashian]

dislike:
75m. It was awful in Brawl and it's awful here. Moving around is a chore.
Pac-Land. It's tacky-ness in the form of a stage. The hazards are annoying. Also that psychedelic break with the garden princess freaks me out because suddenly you can't see the ground.
Wily Castle. The Yellow Devil takes up too much space once it appears. it becomes the focus of the battle.
New Mario Circuit. The first one wasnt great, but the hazards here have killed me way too often.
Gamer: No.

Like:
Gaur Plains: I like the stage structure; its unusual but not in a bad way. There's enough space for life to continue once Metal Face shows up, too. It's also just pretty.
Pyrosphere: I like the size of it, and Ridley is much more engaging as a boss than Yellow Devil. Makes me want to play him, personally.
Temple: this takes me back. Its just fun. Plus I really like the music.
Onett: It's awkward to fight on, but as a MOTHER fan I appreciate the fanservice. Same for Magicant.
Corneria: One of my favorite stages. I thought GCO was gonna be the replacement here. I got quite a shock.
Poke Floats: one of the few scrolling stages I like.
That link stage from S64: the tornado, the green thing you hide in. It's awesome.
Fourside: why is it missing? come back
Big Blue: it's a different perspective to the normal f-zero track, and it is all the better for it.
The musical shrimp from Brawl: it was pretty.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Favorites
1: Palutena's Temple: Surprisingly a place I go to when I want to enjoy myself and relax. It's also a great spot for taking various snapshots. I guess I do have Uprising bias as well, with nice music there (cue Thunder Cloud Temple).
It's also a nice Omega for me to be on.
2: Battlefield: Perhaps the most balanced stage of all that's been around since Melee, with some okay tracks as well. I also have bias as Palutena's great there.
3: Halberd: It was one of my competitive counterpicks, and it still is, especially since Palutena's good there as well.
4: Gaur Plains: I got into some of the music there, and Metal Face is hilarious! It's another spot for snapshots if you're creative. Another Omega that I commonly use.
5: Boxing Ring: The background says it all, but so do the other mechanics with breaking the lights, and the ropes helping you jump up and more.
6: Kalos League: Another beautiful place to take snapshots, and they added the Kalos Champion theme in there, sounds heavenly to me.
7: Delfino Plaza: A nice casual stage. Swimming fun, too! Cue shipping vacation spot, and okay spot for snapshots.


Neutral
1: Temple: Bad history of Basic Brawls back then, and wished it went away. Granted, we can't choose stages anymore in the "For Fun/Glory" or something, but still, I still don't like it. On the bright side, a good place to take snapshots.
2: Skyworld: I'm not fond of this stage and Palutena's Temple sharing a similar background in a way, and Skyworld isn't good for me anymore due to Pit's different recovery, but I still love Kid Icarus, and it's one of the most beautiful Omegas, so yea.
3: Jungle Hijinx: While I do like Donkey Kong and the new mechanic to fight in the background or the front, the music there is so underwhelming.
4: Kongo Jungle (64): The fact that they decided to bring in a 64 stage satisfies me. Sucks they didn't update its looks like they did in Temple.
5: Pyrosphere: The stage looks good, but too many hazards. At least you can beat up Ridley. >: (
6: Wuhu: Good for snapshots and 2 swimming spots, but that's it for me.
7: Smashville: It's a classic, but I don't want it to be used way too much.

Dislike:
1: 75m: Why bring this back? It's a stressful large stage that's difficult to move around in, and too many hazards.
2: Yoshi Island (melee): Why bring this thing back? It was annoying as it is, and I have bad history here in Classic Mode, especially if I somehow have to do a 6-8 player battle here.
3: Gamer: No like.
4: Port Town Aero Dive: So many hazards, and I don't like this place.
5: Great Cave Offensive: Too big, and though it's a nice place to take some snapshots, it's still too big.
6: Luigi's Mansion: I have bad history with this place.
7: Mario Circuit (Brawl): We already got 2 of these, at least get rid of the Brawl one, though I don't like the new one either. Plus I had bad history here.

 

[KopAlex]

Omega Gaur Plain and Wily's Castle cause of that music!

 

[Galacta Knight]

The Great Cave Offensive...love the original stage, and love what they did with the music. Same with Wily's Castle.

 

[Quarium]

I'm still lamenting Magicant... if it wasn't for that damn CPU, such a fine stage ;n;

 

[Javln Mastr]

dislike:
75m. It was awful in Brawl and it's awful here. Moving around is a chore.
Pac-Land. It's tacky-ness in the form of a stage. The hazards are annoying. Also that psychedelic break with the garden princess freaks me out because suddenly you can't see the ground.
Wily Castle. The Yellow Devil takes up too much space once it appears. it becomes the focus of the battle.
New Mario Circuit. The first one wasnt great, but the hazards here have killed me way too often.
Gamer: No.

Like:
Gaur Plains: I like the stage structure; its unusual but not in a bad way. There's enough space for life to continue once Metal Face shows up, too. It's also just pretty.
Pyrosphere: I like the size of it, and Ridley is much more engaging as a boss than Yellow Devil. Makes me want to play him, personally.
Temple: this takes me back. Its just fun. Plus I really like the music.
Onett: It's awkward to fight on, but as a MOTHER fan I appreciate the fanservice. Same for Magicant.
Corneria: One of my favorite stages. I thought GCO was gonna be the replacement here. I got quite a shock.
Poke Floats: one of the few scrolling stages I like.
That link stage from S64: the tornado, the green thing you hide in. It's awesome.
Fourside: why is it missing? come back
Big Blue: it's a different perspective to the normal f-zero track, and it is all the better for it.
The musical shrimp from Brawl: it was pretty.

I feel the same on Fourside, it was one of my favorites in melee, along with Great Bay. I also love Ridley in Pyrosphere, he actually has character, unlike Yellow Devil, who does 2 things: Side-step and rip on Scott Summers.

 

[Kevandre]

My favorites in Smash 4:

1) Pilotwings
2) Gamer
3) Luigi's Mansion
4) Kalos League
5) Temple (of course)

My least favorites in Smash 4:

1) Pac-Land
2) Pyrosphere (The aesthetic is great but the hazards ruin it completely)
3) Great Cave Offensive
4) Palutena's Temple (Though I <3 those conversations a lot)
5) Garden of Hope

I tend to dislike the really big stages, though Temple is glorious, but everyone knows that. GCO and Palutena's Temple fail for the same reason New Pork City was terrible... It was big but wasn't fun. It often takes forever to get to a certain location. LOZ Temple is huge but you can get everywhere on there pretty quick. Pac Land just is annoying. The combination of side scrolling and MS Paint is painful. I put off unlocking it for a long time, lol. Garden of Hope... It's growing on me but it the hazards always kill me. I don't know why.

 

[Jae]

Favorites:
1) Gaur Plain (of course)
2) Gamer
3) Onett
4) Town and City
5) Wily Castle (Omega)

Least Favorites:
1) Wily Castle (Regular) thx yellow debo
2) Flat Zone X (super close blast lines kill)
3) Mario Circuit (Brawl)
4) Mario Galaxy
5) Lylat Cruise (Omega) those ledges tho