"Stage Tier List" for each Character

[3mmanu3lrc]

I would take Falcon out of that list (but not for much), but Fox keeps defenitely in the Mario's **** team.

 

[The Star King]

I dont find Mario has such a hard time with falcon and fox, like boom and star king might have you believe.

I actually think Falcon is OK, but Fox (if not played by ballin ) definitely destroys Mario. IDK though, not really sure about that Falcon match-up.

Oh OK emmanuel that's what I get for not checking the most recent page before responding

 

[ballin4life]

so star king, what am I doing wrong in that matchup?

also you're trippin if you think Fox destroys Mario regardless. got any evidence?

just overall mario has MUCH better recovery and better punishment. Fox can't combo Mario very well and is really bad at edgeguarding Mario. So basically you're coming down to "Fox is better because you can hit Mario repeatedly without getting hit once". I again think that the video I posted is a good example. In the second game I did much better (even though I was getting really lucky that he missed a few edgeguards), but look at how much work I had to do for 1 kill, whereas he could just get one good hit and gimp.

I'd take Falcon vs Mario any day.

 

[ciaza]

i just watched the video you posted

basically what i found to do in that match-up as fox is to press down and B at the SAME TIME and you do this thing called shine

it's really helpful for reflecting the fireballs that lead into grabs which prevent you from getting gimped at 10%

you also probably approached too much in that match

 

[The Star King]

so star king, what am I doing wrong in that matchup?

also you're trippin if you think Fox destroys Mario regardless. got any evidence?

just overall mario has MUCH better recovery and better punishment. Fox can't combo Mario very well and is really bad at edgeguarding Mario. So basically you're coming down to "Fox is better because you can hit Mario repeatedly without getting hit once". I again think that the video I posted is a good example. In the second game I did much better (even though I was getting really lucky that he missed a few edgeguards), but look at how much work I had to do for 1 kill, whereas he could just get one good hit and gimp.

I'd take Falcon vs Mario any day.

Fox is not that bad at edgeguarding Mario. You can dtilt him really easily and aerial him away while he's still in hitstun, rinse and repeat. You can also at least try the usual edgehog -> punish landing lag method. If Mario jumps early and throws some fireballs, like at 5:50 of the video, there's my little gimmick of running under the fireball and hitting them with an aerial. At least do something. In the video you weren't doing anything at all.

He's not that bad at comboing Mario, either. Mario is one of the easiest characters to fair chain at mid %s. Fox's dtilt and utilt are good at lower %s, and his ftilt (yeah, seriously) can be used to assist fair chains. Mario himself has a hard time comboing Fox at low %s, although his uair chains are admittedly formidable later on.

Approach is the big one. If Fox utilizes shine well Mario has a really hard time approaching without his precious little fireballs, and Fox forces him to approach with lasers.

Looking at the video... second match was obviously a lot better than the first. Notice the long periods of time in which you were repeatedly bairing his fireballs? Well, it's better than getting hit by his full hop fireballs, like you did in the first two stocks of the first match, causing you to die quickly. But if you had shined the fireballs and thrown in some lasering you would be in control of the, er, neutral position, like Fox should be in this match-up. You can also try running under it in advance and punishing when you anticipate him doing a fullhop fireball. It's really not very safe for Mario vs such a fast character.

Mario's third stock second match is a good example of Mario living way too long because you were just letting him recover. Like I said before, you can try running under the fireballs and hitting him at places like 5:42 or 6:14. At 5:42, since he was too far away for his up-b to make it over the edge, you could have easily edgehogged and he would either die, or use down-B and been easily punished during the lag. At places like 6:02, you can try bairing through the fireball, or the cool-looking reflect fireball -> upsmash (Boomfan loves doing this with Fox >____>)

P.S. When you get knocked a bit off stage, don't jump and fair super early like you did at 1:27 or 2:32. Not sure why so many people do that, TBH it's like the worst you can so.

 

[ballin4life]

i just watched the video you posted

basically what i found to do in that match-up as fox is to press down and B at the SAME TIME and you do this thing called shine

it's really helpful for reflecting the fireballs that lead into grabs which prevent you from getting gimped at 10%

you also probably approached too much in that match

it takes really good timing to do a perfect shine cancel especially when fireballs are coming diagonally downward at you

Fox is not that bad at edgeguarding Mario. You can dtilt him really easily and aerial him away while he's still in hitstun, rinse and repeat. You can also at least try the usual edgehog -> punish landing lag method. If Mario jumps early and throws some fireballs, like at 5:50 of the video, there's my little gimmick of running under the fireball and hitting them with an aerial. At least do something. In the video you weren't doing anything at all.

what about high percents? i see the value of dtilt at lower percents but it doesn't combo into stuff at higher percents. also whenever i try to do that edgehog stuff i get hit by a fireball haha

He's not that bad at comboing Mario, either. Mario is one of the easiest characters to fair chain at mid %s. Fox's dtilt and utilt are good at lower %s, and his ftilt (yeah, seriously) can be used to assist fair chains. Mario himself has a hard time comboing Fox at low %s, although his uair chains are admittedly formidable later on.

eh, not easier than other floaties (about the same for fair chains). i got some good damage combos but didn't have a good way to finish like i often can on other characters.

Approach is the big one. If Fox utilizes shine well Mario has a really hard time approaching without his precious little fireballs, and Fox forces him to approach with lasers.

it's the full hop fireballs that kill me. i feel like it's really hard to time the shine on those especially if mario follows in with a fair or something that will hit you if you just stand there and shine.

Looking at the video... second match was obviously a lot better than the first. Notice the long periods of time in which you were repeatedly bairing his fireballs? Well, it's better than getting hit by his full hop fireballs, like you did in the first two stocks of the first match, causing you to die quickly. But if you had shined the fireballs and thrown in some lasering you would be in control of the, er, neutral position, like Fox should be in this match-up. You can also try running under it in advance and punishing when you anticipate him doing a fullhop fireball. It's really not very safe for Mario vs such a fast character.

Mario's third stock second match is a good example of Mario living way too long because you were just letting him recover. Like I said before, you can try running under the fireballs and hitting him at places like 5:42 or 6:14. At 5:42, since he was too far away for his up-b to make it over the edge, you could have easily edgehogged and he would either die, or use down-B and been easily punished during the lag. At places like 6:02, you can try bairing through the fireball, or the cool-looking reflect fireball -> upsmash (Boomfan loves doing this with Fox >____>)

yeah i play it cautious though because i know if i mess up i die haha

P.S. When you get knocked a bit off stage, don't jump and fair super early like you did at 1:27 or 2:32. Not sure why so many people do that, TBH it's like the worst you can so.

not sure what i should have done - fast fall and go for ledge? it seems like he could get there in time to punish that