Meta SSB4 Falco Matchup Discussion 35 - Mr. Game & Watch - The Breakfast Club

[Ffamran]

Welcome to the Mr. Game & Watch matchup discussion.

All credit goes to Quas-quas for the original images.​

Here's a link to the main post: SSB4 Falco Matchup Discussion - Main Post. This will be more for general matchup discussions like making a suggestion and such. Or, you could head over to the social thread and ask there: Where We Prefer The Air And The Points Don't Matter!. Or PM me if you really have to, but don't make a habit out of it.

Oh, and if you guys and girls want to play each other to have fun or learn about the MU, check out the NNID and FC sharing thread on the Falco boards: http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-exchange-nnids-or-friend-codes.386513/.

There's also the regular NNID and FC sharing threads in the Online discussion if you just want to ask anyone to play.

Notice: Some rules, guidelines, and tips. Some of these are a given since you joined any forum.

1. Be respectful of each other. No insults, no trolling, no flaming, or any of that nonsense.
2. Be aware that some of the discussions can and will be old, so don't call out someone for "wrong" data if that post was referring to say, patch 1.0.3 stuff.
3. Be impartial; learn to see things from other sides. So, don't boast about all the advantages. Notice weaknesses and strengths from both parties.
4. Stay on topic.
5. Have fun.

And here is a frame speed ranking of their regular attacks and grabs - no Specials yet, sorry - to clear up on things since sometimes a move may feel slow, but it's actually fast and vice versa. Plus more information doesn't always hurt. Data from Mr. Frame & Data by @lllp3lll and the Complete Hitbox/Frame Data For Every Character thread.

As of patch 1.1.4.

Move Hit Frames||
Jab|2-4, 10-12, 17-21, 22-26, 27-31, 32-36, (infinite), 41-42|4-5, 13-13, (infinite), (finisher)
Dash Attack|8-11 or 12-19|6-9 or 10-19
Ftilt|6-8|10-10 or 11-17
Utilt|5-9, 12-16|10-12, 20-22
Dtilt|7-9|6-11 or 7-19
Side Smash|17-19 or 20-20|17-18
Up Smash|7-12, 13-20|24-25
Down Smash|7-9|15-19
Nair|3-5, 6-9, 14-17, 21-24|7-7, 12-12, 17-17, 22-22
Fair|10-13, 14-17, 18-21, 22-25, 26-27, 28-29|10-11 or 12-25
Bair|4-5 or 6-12|10-13, (2 more hits), 22-22
Uair|7-11|6-12 or 20-22
Dair|16-19 or 20-31|12-13 or 14-38
Grab|8-9|6-7
Dash Grab|10-11|8-9
Pivot Grab|11-12|9-10

 

[Woohoo982]

I'd say 55:45 G&W. He can bucket blaster shots and has a better recovery,and has good aerials,so its not that hard to get Falco into the air. Gee,don't think he'll be preferring it much after this MU.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

I agree but disagree, a smart Falco won't be throwing out lasers, we know that's exactly what you want, plus the endlag is terrible.
G&W does have a better recovery, but nothing the fair can't handle if anticipated. Falco's main issue in this match-up is racking up percent, G&W is so light he can sneak his way out of follow-ups especially with that up-b of his.
G&W does have faster aerials, especially that bair.

 

[Ffamran]

I see no reason why Falco would let Mr. Game & Watch Bucket that many lasers compared to Fox who can accidentally shoot 3 lasers before realizing what he's done. Falco has enough delay between shots to realize what he's done and at the same time, he could stall the next shot to trick Mr. G&W.

I'm pretty sure all of Mr. G&W's moves are disjointed which means it's difficult for Falco to get in and it's very punishable if Falco mis-spaces. Mr. G&W's Dash Attack lingers and there's little end lag meaning he can chain them which might not be a problem offline, but online, it's a nightmare since you can't react to that well.

The greatest thing Falco has over Mr. G&W would be kill power and Mr. G&W's weight. Mr. G&W's light and isn't a fast faller like Falco making Falco's kill power that much scarier. At the same time, Falco's a lightweight, has poor air speed, and a fast faller making it easy to combo Falco. Never challenge Mr. G&W while under him. That's just asking for a Kingdom Hearts ending. If Mr. G&W does use Dair, then you could bait it out and Bair punish him. On the ground is where Falco would rather be and it's not that much of an issue for Falco to kill on the ground or in the air. Mr. G&W's crouch won't really affect Falco much since aside from angled up and normal Ftilt, grab?, Blaster, Uair, and Bair?, all of his moves connect with Mr. G&W. Crouching just asks Falco to scoop you up with Utilt.

Mr. G&W has little end lag on his moves and along with his disjoints, Up Smash like Mario, Dr. Mario, Luigi, Wario, Bowser, and some others are invincible. He can pull the same Ally tactic of holding Up Smash while you charge in like an idiot and die. Considering that, Falco Phantasm is likely to get bodied as it usually is by everything Mr. G&W does. Try to go for the ledge, but even then, Chef makes recovering a pain as it's erratic unlike Mario's Fireballs. Overshooting the ledge means Falco will eat burnt food, get burned by Side Smash, get Big Daddied by Up Smash, get hammered by Down Smash and Judge, etc. Mr. G&W's Bair can be delayed so it hits with the later hits making it difficult to tech the ledge since it's not the first hit to the last hit you're timing now. Fair and I bet Nair can stage spike as well. Falco can edgeguard Mr. G&W, but the issue is dealing with his disjoints and Fire, the parachute jump, which has a hitbox and probably can stage spike Falco if he screws up.

There's a 10% range where U-throw guarantees a Uair sweetspot and GimR makes use of this a lot. I don't think it's common knowledge, but it will in the future. So, don't get grabbed since that can happen or the whole D-throw to Judge which if you're unlucky like me, you'll get 9 Hammered. I fought a Mr. G&W once who got like 6-8 9 Hammers in two matches. It was stupid as hell. Anyway, at low percents, I think D-throw leads to Utilt.

Oh, and Mr. G&W can cheese you out. Anyone who watches VGBC and watches GimR's matches should know this. 9 Judges, Uair's windbox, and Dtilt's windbox all spells cheese. Never jump if you see a Mr. G&W use Uair below you. Snow died with Fox after he jumped while Uair's windbox pushed him past the ceiling.

 

[BBC7]

Falco's laser isn't that scary anyways. You can crouch under it or power-shield if you have the timing, it's only safe at long range because of that end lag, and the damage output is really pathetic, even for a lightweight like G&W. It doesn't help that Falco's best tools are at close quarters anyways, and that any competent G&W won't challenge you at long range. Bucketing is a bad option, G&W is safer off just punishing the end lag and not being victimized by the stalled projectile mindgame. The Fox laser custom is strong enough to produce a bucket that kills at 120% center stage and is likely to accidentally fill buckets if spammed. The green laser is just weird, probably fills up the bucket in one go too.

As for the D-Throw to U-Air thing, it's actually a 16% window for Falco. 92%-107%, although here's the catch. DI'ing towards or away is enough to prevent the combo from connecting. If you DI towards, your options are to either jump, airdodge the Uair, or get hit by an Up B. If you DI away, your option is to airdodge the Uair or get hit by a Fair. If you don't DI, your option is to die. A random note about G&W U-Air is that it refreshes stale moves. It also looks good as a pseudo-taunt.

Btw, Falco Phantasm is a bad recovery option. Bair will wall it out. Fair will too although the G&W needs to time it. If Falco recovers high with Side B, he risks eating a meaty U-Smash.

 

[theONEjanitor]

GW thrives off of his opponents impatience and bad spacing. If you play defensively against this character there is like nothing he can do. all of his approaches are pretty easy to punish just by shielding them, but of course you always have to look out for grabs, which can put you in a pretty bad position. Falling against GW is hard with his upair and his semi-ridiculous smash attacks waiting for you at the bottom. His smash attacks are very very strong, and have relatively low lag, but for the the most are easy to see coming, and can be shielded or reacted to. but like a whiffed or shielded aerial should be an easy punish. Any of them, bair, fair, nair, dair all are pretty laggy. Fair I believe has the lowest amount of lag, so if you're not quick you can get jabbed. Also remember that bair hits 4-5 times and shield all the hits.
he's also light as hell AND floaty, meaning he dies at hilariously low percents. fsmash and bair kill him WELL below 100%. upthrow upair will kill him around 70-75%
GW can EASILY edgeguard Falco though, which is one of the more difficult things in this matchup.

Another interesting thing is that almost every game and watch player seems to be bad at sweetspooting with up-b (maybe it's not possible?). Granted Up-B is fast and has priority, this is definitely something you can punish.

 

[BBC7]

Another interesting thing is that almost every game and watch player seems to be bad at sweetspooting with up-b (maybe it's not possible?). Granted Up-B is fast and has priority, this is definitely something you can punish.

Regular Up B doesn't have a sourspot or a sweetspot. It only has one hitbox and that's the rising hitbox.

The Heavy Up B has two hitboxes though. The beginning of the move which does 16% and can kill Falco at 135%, and the rising hitbox that does 10% and can't kill very well.

The parachute-free Up B only has one hitbox, the beginning. Does 12% and kills Falco at around 105%.

EDIT: Also, I'd say Falco is the one to worry about getting his attacks shielded in this match-up.

 

[theONEjanitor]

Regular Up B doesn't have a sourspot or a sweetspot. It only has one hitbox and that's the rising hitbox.

The Heavy Up B has two hitboxes though. The beginning of the move which does 16% and can kill Falco at 135%, and the rising hitbox that does 10% and can't kill very well.

The parachute-free Up B only has one hitbox, the beginning. Does 12% and kills Falco at around 105%.

EDIT: Also, I'd say Falco is the one to worry about getting his attacks shielded in this match-up.

I meant sweetspotting the ledge when recovering, my bad for lack of clarity.

Falco getting grabbed in this match up is clearly bad, but it just shouldn't happen that much, because Falco is not a character that should be hitting shields very often. His kit doesn't really promote that kind of play. In terms of late punishes, or missed reads, or failed gimmicks, yeah you might hit a shield, but that's more a player thing than a character thing.
G&W players, on the other hand try to bait you into dropping your shield, like late double jump into bair, jumping air dodge into fair/bair, or dash away to short hop bair, and a lot of G&W players literally just attack shields, usually with bair (happened in Brawl a lot too), hoping for either the opponent to mess up and drop shield to early or hoping for a poke I guess? things like that etc, that seems to be a major part of GW's neutral game, but literally all of that is protected by just standing there and shielding, and punishing either a whiff or a shield hit, both of which are really easy to do on reaction. Of course this can be mixed up by throwing out grabs. But that's just based on my experience, there are almost certainly things about G&W that I don't know.

 

[SeanS]

In my experience, Falco is largely based on annoying the opponent with deceptively bad moves until they die - though basically no one plays him at tournies in my area, so my experience is solely off of Anther's Ladder matches.

The most significant thing he has is his rapid jab, which outprioritizes quite a lot, but nevertheless leaves Falco in a compromised position.

A key problem for Falco is that most of his kill approaches are simply blocked by G&W off reaction (if the G&W player is good). i.e., his bair, which is short range and must be sweetspotted, is easily defeated by any properly spaced G&W aerial. Uair will be nearly impossible to land against G&W given his movement options (dair cannot be challenged by Falco), and Usmash is going to require you to get past the various disjointed hitboxes on G&W's moves.

Generally, Falco kills in this MU by hoping for a poorly spaced / whiffed aerial and smashing it. He plays very defensively, especially if the G&W is looking to sourspot dash attack / fair in a way that will let G&W jab afterwards. OOS ftilt is very important, as is lasering basically any time G&W is not within distance (if they're any good, that won't be often).

Falco does have some unique properties which screw with G&W's advantages. For one, he is a fastfaller, so G&W players have a weaker than usual combo game against him out of dthrow and inexperienced G&Ws can often do unsafe stuff. The other is that his side B is one of the few moves in the game that completely and definitely screws with G&Ws incredible edgeguarding ability when used properly - though using it to get onstage immediately can be usmashed by any smart G&W. (Up B sucks and gets you stage spiked, though.)

This all said, I am not impressed by Falco's potential against G&W at all and haven't really lost to him in spite of the fact that he is pretty annoying to deal with. I do not like giving MU numbers because this game is hardly a half year old, but I can confidently say that I would win this matchup the vast majority of the time.

 

[Woohoo982]

Yeah,even with blaster lag and some good stuff for Falco, id say this matchup is clearly mr g&w's. Id say 70:30 game and watch