Meta SSB4 Falco Matchup Discussion 22 - Luigi - Wingmen

[Ffamran]

Welcome to the Luigi matchup discussion.

All credit goes to Quas-quas for the original images.​

Here's a link to the main post: SSB4 Falco Matchup Discussion - Main Post. This will be more for general matchup discussions like making a suggestion and such. Or, you could head over to the social thread and ask there: Where We Prefer The Air And The Points Don't Matter!. Or PM me if you really have to, but don't make a habit out of it.

Oh, and if you guys and girls want to play each other to have fun or learn about the MU, check out the NNID and FC sharing thread on the Falco boards: http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-exchange-nnids-or-friend-codes.386513/.

There's also the regular NNID and FC sharing threads in the Online discussion if you just want to ask anyone to play.

Notice: Some rules, guidelines, and tips. Some of these are a given since you joined any forum.

1. Be respectful of each other. No insults, no trolling, no flaming, or any of that nonsense.
2. Be aware that some of the discussions can and will be old, so don't call out someone for "wrong" data if that post was referring to say, patch 1.0.3 stuff.
3. Be impartial; learn to see things from other sides. So, don't boast about all the advantages. Notice weaknesses and strengths from both parties.
4. Stay on topic.
5. Have fun.

And here is a frame speed ranking of their regular attacks and grabs - no Specials yet, sorry - to clear up on things since sometimes a move may feel slow, but it's actually fast and vice versa. Plus more information doesn't always hurt. Data from Professor E. Gadd's Research Papers: Frame Data by @Furret and the Complete Hitbox/Frame Data For Every Character threads.

As of patch 1.1.4.

Move Hit Frames||
Jab|2-4, 10-12, 17-21, 22-26, 27-31, 32-36, (infinite), 41-42|2-3, 9-10, 19-20
Dash Attack|8-11 or 12-19|4-4, 10-10, 16-16, 22-22, 29-29, 37-37, 48-49
Ftilt|6-8|5-7
Utilt|5-9, 12-16|5-10
Dtilt|7-9|5-8
Side Smash|17-19 or 20-20|12-13
Up Smash|7-12, 13-20|9-13
Down Smash|7-9|6-7 or 14-15
Nair|3-5, 6-9, 14-17, 21-24|3-5 or 6-31
Fair|10-13, 14-17, 18-21, 22-25, 26-27, 28-29|7-10
Bair|4-5 or 6-12|6-7 or 8-13
Uair|7-11|5-7 or 8-11
Dair|16-19 or 20-31|10-10 or 11-14
Grab|8-9|6-7
Dash Grab|10-11|8-9
Pivot Grab|11-12|9-10

 

[NotAnAdmin]

The green guy has this MU. 55-45 again

-Luigi's fireballs open up a super safe approach at mid-range that can box in Falco easily that has low endlag.
-His dthrow>fair>fair combo works very well at low percent and racks up damage quickly.
Not only that he can extend that combo with nairs upairs or bait air dodges to juggle Falco with uptilts the usual up-smash or resetting with another grab and doing it all over again.
-The down b and side b
Both very good moves to help with recovering, down b has multiple hits and high priority.

What makes Luigi such a powerhouse is his Melee Falco-like approaches, and his great air game.
His grab game is actually pretty weak, very small range and his dash grab leaves him with alot of lag if it doesn't land. Falco can't handle projectiles well, and this match-up exploits that weakness.
Falco can win this but I would expect a defensive Falco staying back and spacing himself to stay out of Luigi's range. Once Falco can get his hands on Luigi, he can cause some good damage.

 

[Ffamran]

Luigi like Fox and Sheik can Jab cancel to grab which considering who Luigi is, makes him even more dangerous since he can D-throw to anything including a sweet-spotted Super Jump Punch. Luigi Cyclone shares priority with Doctor Tornado, so don't try to clank or challenge them when in the air, but on the ground, it can be interrupted like with Reflector or Blaster.

Luigi off-stage is dangerous, but he needs momentum to make it back and there's a limit to how far he can go deep. So, it might be a good idea early on to collide with Luigi, take the damage, and gimp him, but that comes with the risk of a Luigi knowing and taking you with him or killing you and making it back on stage.

Edit: A recent video posted on the Falco video thread has this for anyone interested in seeing how a Falco vs. Luigi match might work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjmwO1CAFO8.

 

[SoundChow]

I agree with NotAnAdmin that this matchup is definitely for Luigi. He can rack up so much percent and kill with only one grab. Fire balls are annoying to deal with because our reflector has lots of endlag, so his fireball to grab still works on us. His quick Nair can interrupt rapidjab at low percents and normal aerial followups. The video with the Japanese matchup shows that Falco has an extremely hard time dealing with Luigi's quick frame data. I'd say that this matchup is more like 40-60, or even 35-65.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

I don't think it's that steep, Falco does have good options out of shield and a grab means Luigi will be off stage at higher percent. His recovery can be hard to catch with his B moves having priority, but it is still generally very bad.
Falco excels at edgeguarding.

 

[Snipnigth]

Lugi can combo Falco all day long, but Falco cant, luigi can DI out of almost any combo Falco tries thx to his floatiness, he can even DI upwards Falcos rapid jabs and hit him with Nair...This match its definitely in Luigis favor in so manyways...Jabs are not the best option in this matchup, ftilt should replace them here, not only because luigi can DI out of it easily but also because if you miss the spinning jab or he rolls behind you, he has a guaranteed up-B, ftilt is much safer, not as fast, but much safer.

 

[Ffamran]

So, either Luigi Cyclone has weird Z-axis shenanigans going on or Falco's Up Smash is still messed up since apparently this happens; WARNING: Volume since TKBreezy lets out a giant "WHAT!?" when it happens: https://youtu.be/8VL0rW7sSNA?t=3497.

And Luigi can potentially grab through Falco's jab not to mention being able to murder Falco with a clean Nair or jab through it himself which isn't that surprising since most characters can jab through other characters' jabs, especially if they have fast ones like Little Mac, ZSS, Fox, and Mario or a monster like Captain Falcon's. Fantastic. It's like Luigi is meant to be the Star Fox killer... Wait 'till Wolf gets back and goes Star Wolf on him.

 

[BlueBirdE]

If the luigi throws a fireball close mid range falcos reflector will hit luigi along with the fireball. Boxing out luigi is a must. Spaces nairs,fairs, ftilts and dtilts to keep luigi guessing. At times ive had my dtilt or jab break luigis attempt at grabs. Our horizontal movement isnt lackluster with side b in this mu. I feel when cornered i can usually time a full hop and side b unto a platform or ground in some situations. Good example is town and city with the 3 platforms above, puts luigi on the move. Off stage luigi is vulnerable to fair. If luigi recovers below ledge fair will either hit luigi or trade and semi spike. Luigi has the advantage over all but i wouldnt say its dominant. Falco does have tools to work with.

 

[Ffamran]

Anyone want to confirm or deny this? Can't tell why it worked and if it does work, then Fox would also be screwed: https://youtu.be/dY7Mf2_AOYI.

 

[Snipnigth]

Anyone want to confirm or deny this? Can't tell why it worked and if it does work, then Fox would also be screwed: https://youtu.be/dY7Mf2_AOYI.

seem to work all the way, except for the up b, i mean, he could have teched out of it or jump out of it, or throw an aerial.

 

[Anragon]

I played a few Luigis so i'll just give some tips :

-Only Jab him as max range ; don't Rapid Jab either, he'll just hit N-air on you and start a combo
-Actually, only use your moves at max range because his frame data in close range is way better than Falco
-You can't D-throw -> N-air Frame cancel him at low % because he'll get too high during N-air's multi-hit
-Luigi feels a bit like ICs in brawl except with more counterplay, the less grabs he gets lesser the damage (and kill-set ups) he will deal.
-Aim on fighting him off-stage, N-air, Lasers and F-air beat his recovery quite easily (except missfires but hey it's Luigi).

 

[theONEjanitor]

Basically Luigi is going to try to grab you, without grab he shouldn't be doing too much damage. As mentioned, don't bother rapid jabbing, he'll just spam A to get out. Look for falling nairs and down-Bs when Luigi's in the air. Getting hit by fireballs is actually better than shielding them, fireball is minus on hit so you can act immediately after getting hit by one. but you can also just jab or ftilt them as they come as well, just be wary if the luigi runs up and powershields the jab. normal shield should cause luigi to slide out of grab range. Luigi is going to try to shield grab, but since he's so slidy, you can often just throw out a move to knock him too far back. Also, don't fall on top of Luigi. He can just upsmash brainlessly and even if you airdodge it, you'll probably still get jabbed or grabbed as you fall to the ground.
The main thing we have over Luigi is the fact that his recovery is terrible and easily gimped. So if you get him off stage you need to do your damndest to make sure he don't come back. Spike him out of his side-b, and fair him out of his up-b.
Even post nerf Luigi is a dumb character and this match up is hard as Falco doesn't really have any clear advantage except when edgeguarding.

 

[Crimson Ace]

I don't think the MU is good for Falco. Although Falco does have some things going for him, such as a spaced reflector can hit Luigi and reflect his fireball (and its pretty safe), Falco overall loses this MU. I think the worst things against Falco is his falling speed, which makes him combo food for Luigi's annoying combos strings, and one thing that I hate the most, Luigi's down b offstage. If the Luigi is really good, he can use the cyclone correctly to spike Falco, and it works on other fast fallers too because I also main Falcon and this has also happened to me. Let's say I'm offstage trying to recover low, since Falco's recovery has a long startup, Luigi can come down and use down b, hit Falco with a few hits of it, but the last one doesn't connect for some reason, and Falco is send straight downwards. Most of the time I die very early because I usually don't have another jump and Falco's recovery is terrible (Same goes for my other main, Falcon). I think that's the worst part in this MU imo. Luigi can just kill him at 20% or less.

EDIT: Also his nair is super annoying since it's frame 3 and can even interrupt his rapid jab. Also, I'd say the MU is about 40-60 or 35-65, depends on the both players' skills.