Squirtle PM V3.5 Changes

[didds]

lol, every character forum has a group of dudes complaining about changes, squirtle is better in this version realative to the rest of the cast and the best and safest uses of withdraw remain intact.

gotta learn all of squirtle s mobility options because they are all there along with the ability to wreck face on most of the cast still

 

[Cloudburst]

Yeah he impressed me with how fast he was moving after just randoming Squirtle in Loser's quarters. Found the video on reddit, sue me, w/e XD

 

[JCOnyx]

Yeah he impressed me with how fast he was moving after just randoming Squirtle in Loser's quarters. Found the video on reddit, sue me, w/e XD

Nah dude, I first watched that video on Reddit as well. It wasn't that bad of a game, if only he didn't kill himself with those withdraws lol.

 

[strobe]

I don't play at a very high level but can somebody explain how bubble is supposed to be used now? I used to use slingjump/sh bubble into dtilt/grab/dsmash/whatever as my main approach option and it seems like it sucks now even though I haven't played the update very extensively. It seems like he's lacking approach options and I'm just wavedashing in and out waiting for people to commit to some unsafe attack.

 

[MrHazuki]

I never said it was the fastest. Misinterpret much? I know it isn't the fastest way.
The pace with the good old Withdraw was is different, not faster.
I'm not meaning to attack you in any way, just saying that you don't know how to use the move.

 

[Cloudburst]

The jump allowed Squirtle to get onto platforms and from platform to platform/ground in a pace he couldn't otherwise get. Since you could jump almost instantly you could mix it up in your approach in so many ways. To approach a falling opponent from below with Withdraw is not possible any more either and that was a really cool strat.
You could do very much with the jump, and to try to simplify it into being only three aspects is nothing more than a proof of how little of that move's potential you had mastered.

We could have been better, but they ruined it.

Okay, I interpreted "allowed Squirtle to get onto platforms and from platform to platform/ground in a pace he couldn't otherwise get" to mean that Withdraw was his fastest method of travel. Did you mean in a space he couldn't otherwise get? Clarify this for me.

 

[MrAzureKun]

I don't play at a very high level but can somebody explain how bubble is supposed to be used now? I used to use slingjump/sh bubble into dtilt/grab/dsmash/whatever as my main approach option and it seems like it sucks now even though I haven't played the update very extensively. It seems like he's lacking approach options and I'm just wavedashing in and out waiting for people to commit to some unsafe attack.

I second this, I can't really seem to find much great use from bubble anymore.

 

[MrHazuki]

I mean that the speed and acceleration both vertically and horizontally is different from what Squirtle otherwise could get, which makes it a movement option.
I don't know how to keep this discussion going unless you can recognize it as that and not just a scrub move.

 

[Cloudburst]

When it comes to movement, faster is better. Nobody walks anywhere in competitive smash matches. A combination of Slingjumping, Wavedashing, and Wavelanding will get you to places just as fast if not faster that just withdraw, and it isn't a complex move. It's not a scrub move, but it was too easy to use in a scrubby manner.

The PMDT thought that Withdraw was centralizing the character, so they are forcing Squirtle players to utilize his other movement options and attacks, or lose.

 

[KrymsonSkyz]

Removing options on a special is an objectively bad change. But we're gonna have to deal with it and somehow make it work.

 

[MrAzureKun]

Removing options on a special is an objectively bad change. But we're gonna have to deal with it and somehow make it work.

This is the sad truth.
Lets get to work squad.
Time to show them what we can do.

The PMDT thought that Withdraw was centralizing the character, so they are forcing Squirtle players to utilize his other movement options and attacks, or lose.

This is all too true, the more I think about it the more I realize that withdraw was too much of an everything move.
We can still use it like before, just not as a crutch to play the character.

 

[Warzenschwein]

I like the changes because they make Squirtle less obnoxious to play against.
In general, a lot of needed design choices were made in 3.5 to accomplish this, which I really advocate.

The only thing that bothers me about withdraw though is the following:
Sometimes the momentum of withdraw simply seems to decrease enormously while Squirtle still stays in his shell. Withdraw is already relatively risky right now because of the lack of turnaround.
But after slowly slithering into my guaranteed doom, I felt like using withdraw was pure suicide sometimes.
Not sure if this is an intended nerf, but it seemed somewhat harsh at the moment.

 

[PlateProp]

I like the changes because they make Squirtle less obnoxious to play against.
In general, a lot of needed design choices were made in 3.5 to accomplish this, which I really advocate.

The only thing that bothers me about withdraw though is the following:
Sometimes the momentum of withdraw simply seems to decrease enormously while Squirtle still stays in his shell. Withdraw is already relatively risky right now because of the lack of turnaround.
But after slowly slithering into my guaranteed doom, I felt like using withdraw was pure suicide sometimes.
Not sure if this is an intended nerf, but it seemed somewhat harsh at the moment.

Withdraw slows down after it goes half it's full distance on the ground.

 

[Badge]

Correct

From testing in Debug Mode, it seems like the AJ check occurs on frames 6&7, making the actual hitbox come out no sooner than frame 7. From the pac the connection checking hitbox indeed appears to be on frame 5, but it's different ingame and I have no idea why.

 

[cmart]

Thanks for investigating. I'll look into it.

 

[lotad]

Overall I am satisfied with squirtle's changes, I think the big changes are over and only small tweaks are needed. For one, I believe aerial bubble needs a bigger hitbox, to many times the bubbles would just touch my opponent and do nothing. Also, water gun needs more.. Punch to it, maybe a little more damage?

 

[Windsilver]

I don't play at a very high level but can somebody explain how bubble is supposed to be used now? I used to use slingjump/sh bubble into dtilt/grab/dsmash/whatever as my main approach option and it seems like it sucks now even though I haven't played the update very extensively. It seems like he's lacking approach options and I'm just wavedashing in and out waiting for people to commit to some unsafe attack.

Hope you don't mind me jumping in on this.
I use bubble as counter to charges from foes and projectiles. It's a great way to stop a foe from charging an attack while staying close enough to start a combo. And when you combine it with withdraw, you can break right through their attempt to recover.

 

[TGT | Ghosty]

Frame 1 as in as soon as you make contact or frame 1 of the actual attack?
Also whats the input? B again? A like before?

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[TGT | Ghosty]

I feel disgusting being an Amish Squirtle.... but practicing tech is hard rofl