Spirits vs. Custom Characters

[Xelrog]

First off: Does anyone else actually use these in matches with friends? From the people I've spoken to, I feel like I'm the only one who did so pretty regularly. I loved using the custom traits and stats in Smash 4 to make crazy character builds, like a Peach who could float around with autoheal, a Sonic with minimum falling speed, max defense Bowser, max speed Bowser, etc. etc. It made for some very fun couch matches.

I'm very disappointed with the spirits system in Ultimate, though. The rock-paper-scissors mechanic in particular, while good for singleplayer modes, completely destroys their use in friendly matches. No longer can I pit Stupid Build A versus Stupid Build B because, oh look, Build B happens to have a type advantage that will massively increase its damage versus A. And because Spirit B has a unique trait that exists on no other spirit in the game, I can't just make all my spirits Neutral type to eliminate that advantage. Instead I'm stuck with a system that severely limits who can play against who--we either have to use spirits of the same type, or one of us has to be using a neutral spirit. Honestly, we've stopped trying to play with them entirely because of this limitation. It just takes the fun away.

I would love for the rock/paper/scissors mechanic to be disabled (or disable-able) for multiplayer matches. Actually, I would love to just go back to the previous game's custom character system where I could put any effect on any character I wanted and not have to worry about random stat boosts being divvied out. I don't expect either to happen, but I'm sure sad to see the previous custom system go.

 

[~?~]

I personally don't mind how the Spirit system works. 3 times I've made a Spirits arena where people came to play and I got to see all sorts of jazz. You can also make rulesets like you do with standard competitive Smash Bros. For example, only 1 stars are legal. Only X color is legal etc etc.

I went in with a Giratina (Origin Form) equipped with Amy and 2 Wolfen. What proceeded to happen was that anyone who shielded about 80% of my approaches were shield broken. BTW GOF is a colorless Spirit. So he has no advantage or disadvantage.
I've also done Sirius equipped with 2 Shine Sprite and a Wind Fish. My Bombs, Boomerangs and Arrows were doing like 20 damage a peace. Just hitting someone with the bomb, not even exploding it, was causing like 3.5 damage and Sirius as a Primary was letting me kill with my Up Bs and Fairs pretty easy after racking up all that easy damage with projectiles.
Spirits isn't perfect but it has a LOT more than you think it does going for it, regardless of RPS.

 

[Xelrog]

My point is that you could do everything you just described in the previous game's system without having to worry about arbitrary type advantages and series-based stat boosts. In this one, if you want to use that Sirius build, you can't do it against a person who wants to use, say, Midna's Dash+ because she happens to be green and you happen to be blue. The rock-paper-scissors and series boost mechanics don't add anything to multiplayer spirit play, they only subtract from it.

 

[~?~]

My point is that you could do everything you just described in the previous game's system without having to worry about arbitrary type advantages and series-based stat boosts. In this one, if you want to use that Sirius build, you can't do it against a person who wants to use, say, Midna's Dash+ because she happens to be green and you happen to be blue. The rock-paper-scissors and series boost mechanics don't add anything to multiplayer spirit play, they only subtract from it.

there's also more spirits than custom options.... So you actually have a plethora of options to choose from, not to mention, there are plenty of primaries of different colors with the same effects.

 

[Xelrog]

The good effects are usually unique to a single spirit that is fixed on a specific color. They're also inherently tied to a spirit with set stats.

Let's enter the world of hypotheticals. Can I ask you why you think that being able to build a character with whatever effects you like would be a BAD idea? Given the options of free creation and arbitrary restrictions, can you explain why you believe these arbitrary restrictions enhance the gameplay, and why being allowed to assign abilities freely would hurt the system? Do you enjoy being limited by spirit color when you're playing with friends? Does this create a sensation of fun to you? What argument are you making to me with your posts, exactly?

 

[Haden]

he never said customs is bad, only that spirits is fine how it is which is agreeable imo

 

[UltimateXsniper]

I preferably find spirits better imo. The types are definitely an issue when it comes to friendly matches, so I would just stick to neutral builds or have matches that use the same types because it would be stupid to play a friend and purposely use the type weak against the other except for handicap reasons. I like how stronger support spirits can be more limiting in terms of space and has a nice way for balancing rather than say have an all healing build for example.

I also do like how strong the spirits can be. Fighting a strong spirit team with no spirits yourself is much more challenging than a custom character with high stats and special effects. I also love the more additions to special effects such as metal or giant from the start and how you can use items even when you select items off in the game rules. I feel like I have more possiblities with spirits than I ever had with customs.

An example of what kind of fun possibility I had for a spirit battle is that I turned my silver Mario amiibo into Metal Mario. Thanks for the ability to have metal at the start and putting on slow super armor pretty much made how Metal Mario fought in the 64 game. Easily my favorite gimmick amiibo I've created so far.

 

[Xelrog]

I agree that more effects is good, and I agree that I'm glad item effects now work the way they do (spawning even if items are off). I just wish the rock/paper/scissors thing wasn't an issue, because it's a big enough issue for me that I've lost interest in playing with spirits with friends. It's just not fun to me when I have to limit myself to the same colors the way I didn't used to have to, it cuts down on the options sooo much.

All the positive additions could still be there without this rock/paper/scissors mechanic. I'm not saying there weren't improvements, but this one major flaw negates them completely.

 

[Goddamn_Angela]

I never used customs and I never use Spirits. Using them just bends the game in a way that just isn't fun for me. Also, you might get used to "x" custom move or Spirit and then the game feels "off" without it, or whatever.