[Speculation] Sonic 3.6 Changes

[Vultron]

This thread is specifically for changes that you think will be instantiated in PM3.6 If you have any sort of back up for your thoughts it is best that you provide them!

 

[Vultron]

So I'll go first. I think the SideB ledge animation has returned to its 3.0 form. If you look here: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOuXKCvhTvw&feature=player_detailpage#t=55) Sonic uses SideB off the platform and continues to stay in the current animation! I am also positive that this is 3.6 as this video also shows Olimar's new Recovery.

 

[Ness_STFU]

So I'll go first. I think the SideB ledge animation has returned to its 3.0 form. If you look here: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOuXKCvhTvw&feature=player_detailpage#t=55) Sonic uses SideB off the platform and continues to stay in the current animation! I am also positive that this is 3.6 as this video also shows Olimar's new Recovery.

That's actually a nerf in my opinion... being able to instantly cancel sideB by going off a ledge is wonderful on Battlefield and stages with platforms...

 

[Vultron]

If it goes back to 3.0 style you will be able to preform an action sooner. 3.5 added the animation that prevented you from attacking, wavedashing, recovering.

 

[Star ☆]

I don't think that clip is long enough to really show any changes to the ledge cancel animation.

 

[DireDrop]

I'm expecting few, if any changes. The balance is pretty good right now.

 

[DrugsM2]

The only things i could see happening are possibly a quality of life fix for his uair first hit connecting to the second and side-b tweaking, not even a nerf to it but i expect it to just be altered in how it works slightly

 

[Star ☆]

Sonic's up smash looked identical in the 3.6 trailer, which is a shame considering it's the only move I would like to be altered at the moment.

 

[Vultron]

Sonic's up smash looked identical in the 3.6 trailer, which is a shame considering it's the only move I would like to be altered at the moment.

I would love to see some change too. It's a very situational move that isn't even that rewarding.

 

[Avro-Arrow]

I like his upsmash, lol. It's good for styling or catching opponents off a laggy move and actually has decent power. And the SFX, mmm. So stylin'. But yeah, it's definitely his worst move. If the PMDT gave it a little bit more knockback scaling I'd be fine with that . Or just a rehaul of the move in general. But think if they gave him something like Wolf's upsmash. That'd be so broken.

 

[Vultron]

I like his upsmash, lol. It's good for styling or catching opponents off a laggy move and actually has decent power. And the SFX, mmm. So stylin'. But yeah, it's definitely his worst move. If the PMDT gave it a little bit more knockback scaling I'd be fine with that . Or just a rehaul of the move in general. But think if they gave him something like Wolf's upsmash. That'd be so broken.

What would that look like though!? He suddenly transforms into his Werehog mode and throws his huge claws up into the air?

PMDT plz ad werhog 4 sanic

 

[Vino.]

Hopefully they just make him tournament viable again

 

[JFyst]

Homing attack pls, not 3.0 homing attack just some different nerf, the fact that I miss blast attack and die makes it a bad option off stage same.

 

[GabPR]

Hopefully they just make him tournament viable again

He is really viable atm though.

Homing attack pls, not 3.0 homing attack just some different nerf, the fact that I miss blast attack and die makes it a bad option off stage same.

It aint bad to have some degree of risk to use this move considering how free it was in previous versions. Besides, its really safe to use homing if you input towards the stage and then activate it. If it does not lock on you go towards it and not die (plus if you angle it to sweetspot ledge it will snap on to it and you get a quick chance for another edge guard attempt)

 

[Vultron]

Hopefully they just make him tournament viable again

Sonic's punish game is amazing in 3.5 thanks to how great his dashdance and wavedash are. I think he is tournament viable as he is now, but a few balance changes (in our favor) will never hurt.

Homing attack pls, not 3.0 homing attack just some different nerf, the fact that I miss blast attack and die makes it a bad option off stage same.

To avoid as many SD's as possible, I always make sure to turn it in the direction I want to go. The only changes I would like to see for Homing Attack are; Longer distance covered, and Blast Attack has a bit higher priority and scaled knockback on hit.

 

[Avro-Arrow]

I find Sonic's dash dance to be a little disappointing in reality. Sure it's fine, but Fox's and Marth's are better for example.

Sonic at the moment is a really difficult character to play competitively because he requires a lot of precision, especially against characters with such great zoning tools such as Marth, Charizard, and Samus. However, that being said, Sonic can still put in quite the amount of work. And his edgeguards are fantastic.

What do you guys think about spin dash and spinshot against characters like Peach and Samus? I understand the crouch cancels get us, but it can still serve as a form of movement and a mix-up - even if we don't hit them with the actual move, we can bait out something like a dsmash (in their cases) and hop over and dair them to start a combo.

 

[GabPR]

I find that Sonic's dash dance is misunderstood. Even with the fastest running speed in the game, it is true that Marth's fox's and other characters' DD is better than Sonic's at closer ranges due to their acceleration speed being faster than Sonic's. Sonic has another strength in his dd though... his mid to long range dash dance. Differentiating him from other characters' dash dances, in these distances Sonic can actually put pressure on to the opponent with dash dance since if you start to run to your opponent from mid to long range, he can get to almost, if not his full running speed before he gets to close dd range, which can be pretty hard to react to and can even punish unsafe moves with is like peach pulling turnips or other unsafe options. He runs so fast that opponents will have a hard time reacting to his speed and you can actually even run past your opponent for a quick pivot grab or quickly crouch and fsmash in some situations.

 

[Vino.]

Personally, I don't think he is. He can do okay, but other characters like marth, snake, fox, Falco, and etc just beat him up.

 

[Avro-Arrow]

I think Sonic does well against Snake. He can get in pretty well. Sure the mines are annoying, but Sonic's mobility is so good that he can jump over them, or even drop a spring on them if the neutral becomes that stagnant. Plus, Snake's at a great weight for Sonic to combo, much like Link, and Sonic gets edgeguards pretty dang easy (as long as he is knocked out far enough I find, when Snake is close it can be difficult to get out there before he whips out his upB). Sonic slides quite a bit when he shields out of a dash, so you can get through his tranqs and grenades pretty effectively with that option alone. As for the tranqs, you can also short hop on reaction to hearing him grunt. Keeping Snake above you is also easy because of his weight and Sonic's ability to get in, and especially because of Snake's inability to manoeuver well in the air due to his low air speed and poor aerials. All he's got really are his grenades; all his other options aren't so hot against Sonic. But it is definitely a matchup which takes a little getting used to. He kills us pretty early and can have a pretty daunting neutral, and if you're not mindful of his mines, you will die, whether it be from simply the mine itself or from a pop-up to fair. I get lots of practice in this one .

@ GabPR As for his dashdancing, I agree that stretching out his length on the dashdance is a lot more useful in general than the short one. I'm still not so sure that it's very fast, but I do recognize that in combination with wavedashing, it's pretty dang good.

 

[GabPR]

I think Sonic does well against Snake. He can get in pretty well. Sure the mines are annoying, but Sonic's mobility is so good that he can jump over them, or even drop a spring on them if the neutral becomes that stagnant. Plus, Snake's at a great weight for Sonic to combo, much like Link, and Sonic gets edgeguards pretty dang easy (as long as he is knocked out far enough I find, when Snake is close it can be difficult to get out there before he whips out his upB). Sonic slides quite a bit when he shields out of a dash, so you can get through his tranqs and grenades pretty effectively with that option alone. As for the tranqs, you can also short hop on reaction to hearing him grunt. Keeping Snake above you is also easy because of his weight and Sonic's ability to get in, and especially because of Snake's inability to manoeuver well in the air due to his low air speed and poor aerials. All he's got really are his grenades; all his other options aren't so hot against Sonic. But it is definitely a matchup which takes a little getting used to. He kills us pretty early and can have a pretty daunting neutral, and if you're not mindful of his mines, you will die, whether it be from simply the mine itself or from a pop-up to fair. I get lots of practice in this one .

@ GabPR As for his dashdancing, I agree that stretching out his length on the dashdance is a lot more useful in general than the short one. I'm still not so sure that it's very fast, but I do recognize that in combination with wavedashing, it's pretty dang good.

Im sorry, I was not referring to the selection between short or long dashdance, What I actually meant was the distance between you and the opponent, sorry for the misunderstanding.

In other terms, I believe Snake is one of Sonic's disadvantageous matchups, but I would prefer to discuss that in the other thread rather than deviate from the topic.

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Oh yeah, okay. I know what you mean. I agree with that too. And I may have been pushing it by talking about the Snake MU.

My bad. As for other changes, do you guys think if were to get buffs, that we might see a possible upB nerf?

 

[Vultron]

If anything anything just a change to his IASA.

 

[Vultron]

Also not to be rude, but let's keep this on topic.

 

[Mejai]

Like what other people said, I'd want some changes to his up smash but it's really not that big of a deal.

He's completely tournament viable, I'd actually like some small nerfs to his Up B recovery and then small buffs to his acceleration speed while nerfing his max run speed a bit. Sonic is supposed to be the fastest character, by that logic PMDT should work on the idea of him controlling the most horizontal space. I'd rather see a Sonic developed to kill off the sides and bottom blastzones instead of off the top with Up air finishers.

I can't really think of anything else, outside of those suggestions I'm pretty content with how Sonic is at the moment. Nothing is free on him, his combos/kills are all earned and his neutral doesn't consist of down B spam into infinity anymore.

 

[DireDrop]

I'd be down for a top speed nerf in exchange for a faster acceleration speed. If they gave him a longer wavedash that would be really cool too. That would bring him a step closer to having that really fuild motion that characters like Fox and Marth have.

 

[NyTR0]

I just want that disgusting homing attack to get fixed. Like, c'mon... What's next? "Doing any aerial with sonic puts you in Special Fall."? It's so dumb and just kills all the hype when I'm ahead and I fat finger b to SD... I think they should make it so it just loses distance with every use (like Mario's cape) when it doesn't find a target. That would make it better. Doesn't help that his hit boxes on his specials are his hurt boxes. Have you guys seen the little walnut of a hit box on his specials? You'd get hit before you even make contact. I have fun playing sonic but damn, man.. Sometimes he feels so weak. Some characters can just stand there and jab and still hit him out of his specials. (Not stopping me from playing him though.)

 

[GabPR]

Homing attack, as ive said countless times before... Is really really strong, especially blast attack. Buffing it would be detrimental considering the masive range buff on the lock on in 3.5. If you do homing attack off stage, always tilt the control stick towards the stage and if you miss the lock on you go to the stage. That means that you should never truly sd unless you go really deep with a blast/homing attack and miss the hit/lock on OR you forget to tilt the control stick, which is really simple. The actual true risk of using it is really really low, while the rewards for it are high (especially for edgeguards)

 

[NyTR0]

I understand what you're trying to get at but honestly is isn't that great of an attack. Like I said on my last comment, Sonic has as much priority as person at Disney World without an express pass.. His hit boxes on his specials are inside of his hurt boxes. Almost any move denies HA. Funny how even after the range increase sometimes it feels like it still doesn't reach even when I'm like dead kissing them haha. I just want that special fall out. It just makes matches so awkward.

 

[Vultron]

Homing attack, as ive said countless times before... Is really really strong, especially blast attack. Buffing it would be detrimental considering the masive range buff on the lock on in 3.5. If you do homing attack off stage, always tilt the control stick towards the stage and if you miss the lock on you go to the stage. That means that you should never truly sd unless you go really deep with a blast/homing attack and miss the hit/lock on OR you forget to tilt the control stick, which is really simple. The actual true risk of using it is really really low, while the rewards for it are high (especially for edgeguards)

I just want higher Scaled Knockback so I can Blast Attack someone while offstage and get the super flashy kill (Like Wolf's SideB)

 

[NyTR0]

I just want higher Scaled Knockback so I can Blast Attack someone while offstage and get the super flashy kill (Like Wolf's SideB)

That would actually be pretty nice.

 

[GabPR]

Ok, let me rephrase this... Do you really think he actually needs this? He already has one of, if not the best edgeguards in the game and a lot of utility across his moveset. He has also one of, if not the best recovery in the game. His blast attack comes out absurdly fast and can be comboed into many things, as well as his homing attack. And imagine that with even more priority and becoming a kill move that would be 100% safe on miss(even blast attack).

 

[DireDrop]

I wouldn't expect the PMDT to remove the special fall state from a missed homing attack/blast attack. Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't make it cause special fall in all cases except on-hit. Crazy good recoveries were one of the biggest elements they wanted to take out in the 3.5 patch. Sonic was one of of the most guilty contributors.

 

[Vultron]

Ok, let me rephrase this... Do you really think he actually needs this? He already has one of, if not the best edgeguards in the game and a lot of utility across his moveset. He has also one of, if not the best recovery in the game. His blast attack comes out absurdly fast and can be comboed into many things, as well as his homing attack. And imagine that with even more priority and becoming a kill move that would be 100% safe on miss(even blast attack).

No, In a perfect world for me, the only changes to Sonic would be:
-Homing Attack
--Detection Zone has been decreased 50 -> 40
--Blast Attack KBG has been increased 120 -> 150

-Others
--Sonic's maximum run speed is never truly met, to change this we have lowered to x.
--Sonic's run speed acceleration has been increased to x.

 

[DireDrop]

^ Those seem pretty good actually.

Can... can we have a faster down tilt too? Pretty please?

 

[GabPR]

Those dont seem half bad actually, have my doubts on the running speed part but aside from that its not bad.

 

[DireDrop]

Doubts on the top speed or the acceleration?

 

[NyTR0]

There are still plenty of super ridiculous recoveries in PM and I don't see them going into a ridiculous special fall. Might as well make it so Jigglypuff goes into special fall after using all her jumps Lol. Just start calling it project special fall. Mario goes into special fall after using cape. Hahaha but on a serious note... Using HA/BA for edgeguarding???? Please tell me you're kidding. HA/BA sends them up. You'd be helping them to recover. It has happened to me before *cries* and using it as a kill move is pointless. They'd have to be high in the air and like at 150+% not worth considering other options are there. If the "kill potential" is the problem then just lower down that and fix it up the way I had mentioned without that special fall. At the end of the day I know it'll probably never get changed and I'm sure PMDT doesn't care about any of the none sense I speak. Its just a preference I wish was there ;-;

 

[GabPR]

Doubts on the top speed or the acceleration?

In the words of lunchables, if Sonic had both top accelaration speed with his top movement speed, everyone would main Sonic.

There are still plenty of super ridiculous recoveries in PM and I don't see them going into a ridiculous special fall. Might as well make it so Jigglypuff goes into special fall after using all her jumps Lol. Just start calling it project special fall. Mario goes into special fall after using cape. Hahaha but on a serious note... Using HA/BA for edgeguarding???? Please tell me you're kidding. HA/BA sends them up. You'd be helping them to recover. It has happened to me before *cries* and using it as a kill move is pointless. They'd have to be high in the air and like at 150+% not worth considering other options are there. If the "kill potential" is the problem then just lower down that and fix it up the way I had mentioned without that special fall. At the end of the day I know it'll probably never get changed and I'm sure PMDT doesn't care about any of the none sense I speak. Its just a preference I wish was there ;-;

HA is a spacie killer, blast and HA to characters in mid percents set up for another aerial to kill, but Sonics edge guard game does not even depend on HA, his current great recovery doesnt either(though blast attack to snap ledge is really good for even more recovery mixups).

 

[Vultron]

^ Those seem pretty good actually.

Can... can we have a faster down tilt too? Pretty please?

That might be a little much!

In the words of lunchables, if Sonic had both top accelaration speed with his top movement speed, everyone would main Sonic.

That's why I also suggest the Lower max speed.

 

[DireDrop]

For some reason I thought Sonic's downtilt was slower than Marth's. But I just checked and it's actually the same (at least the startup is). In that case, then maybe just extend the hitbox so it covers the full length of Sonic's foot. That move is just a little too clunky to be useful IMO.