v4extreme
Smash Journeyman
Introduction:
Hello everyone. I'm posting this thread because I'd like your help/input in creating an all-purpose guide to running a tournament. Last month I attempted to run a tournament, Midstate Massacre 3, which essentially failed. I was the only TO, the number of entrants was more than double what I expected, and I attempted to run 5 games in 9 hours. To make a long story short, we didn't finish. I've had some notes sitting on my computer about what went wrong since then, and I've been meaning to make something specific out of them. After watching Fight Pitt IV have similar problems this weekend- PM being canceled, Melee running late, and GimR getting locked up- it occurred to me these sorts of issues may continue to arise more and more frequently given the current state of the community. Rolling off of Evo and the documentary the Melee scene is more massive than it's ever been. This gives us the potential to run more, larger, and better events. I think this calls for an organized guide, applicable to all situations, that a TO can use to determine exactly how to successfully run their tournament. I would like your help in constructing this guide as a collaborative community effort.
Goal:
The primary goal is to prepare a TO to successfully run their event regardless of the scale. I imagine this guide as having two categories of guidelines: a general set, not unlike the stickies already posted in this forum, which have advice for things like communicating, decision/rule enforcement, the role of TO and potential assistant roles, etc. More importantly, it should have a quantitative set that gives the TO a framework for assessing their resources (number of setups, number of laptops, time allotted, etc.), comparing those resources to the type/number of games they would like to run, and allows them to determine the best way to go about it, if it is realistic. I.e., taking into account how many setups there are for each game, how many games can be run simultaneously, and how much time is allotted, the guide should suggest capping entry at a certain point, help decide whether or not to run pools, etc.
MSM3 As An Example
Here I'll summarize the things that went wrong at MSM3 and the thoughts I recorded afterword, as well as some of the input I got from other NC TOs. Not all of this is directly applicable to the guide, I'm more interested in developing a way to look at resources and tell the TO when/if to cap entry or run pools and things like that, but anyway this is what I'm starting with.
-A flexible/tentative schedule is not enough for a potentially large event. I recycled the tentative schedule from my last two tournaments, which were much smaller and more relaxed. I thought that because they were labeled "tentative" people would not base their travel plans/arrival time around them. In my previous events PM was run after Melee and Brawl because there was time for it, so I put PM at 6pm on the tentative schedule. Some players drove 4 hours to get there, arrived just after I decided to close entry, and were almost not entered. I was realizing at that point that finishing on time was going to be difficult and was trying to be adamant about closing entry. When they told me how far they had come I allowed those players into bracket, but obviously this sort of confusion is problematic. If the number of potential entrants is questionable the guide should help the TO post information ahead of time in their thread saying that registration will definitely close at a specific time, and entry will definitely be capped at a certain point if necessary.
-Players did not pre-register as much as I would have liked. I did feel that this event was going to be larger than my other two (I just didn't realize how MUCH larger), so I put a pre-registration system in place. A negligible amount of players used it, most of whom I already knew were coming, and none of whom traveled from out of state. This is because there was essentially no incentive to pre-register. The venue cost me nothing and I wanted to encourage new players/people outside the community by keeping the cost low, so I did not charge a venue fee and had nothing to waive. It may be beneficial for the guide to have a section about pre-reg systems and tips for their success.
-There were not enough laptops/TOs to coordinate everything going on. This one is pretty simple. The guide should somehow take into account the number of TOs and laptops when determining what size event can realistically be run. Running short on time I was frantically trying to get many people entered into multiple events on one computer, and some players were entered into the wrong event, which was realized until after brackets were underway. Additionally some players were DQ'd from one game while playing a tournament set for another game due to lack of coordination.
I had an idea for a possible way to make use of multiple laptops and TOs:
Using challonge, a google doc, and instant messing, TOs can easily coordinate with each other while running one game per laptop. On a google doc a spreadsheet can be simultaneously maintained by all TOs. Each row is a player, and there are four columns:
ALIAS GAMES START TIME WAITING
Where ALIAS is self-explanatory, GAMES is a list of all games that player entered, START TIME says what time the match started if the player is in a match, and in WAITING TOs list any games that are waiting on that player. Rows are highlighted corresponding to what game the player is playing if they are in a match. TOs updated the spreadsheet as they call matches. When a player reports a match result, the TO can tell them if another game is waiting on them. This is geared toward large events and would work best with two TOs per laptop (one to call matches and such while the other works on the computer).
Sample:
-There were multiple issues with the stream. Not quite my main focus here, maybe something for a totally separate guide, but I figure I may as well post what I have. These are Clowsui's thoughts about the stream at MSM3:
1. Commentator list should be provided by TO or by the
people who the TO feels can be trusted to delegate
2. Make sure either you or someone you trust is by the rig
the whole time
3. Leave out a physical copy of "rules" for your commentator
and have all individuals involved in commentary sign it to
acknowledge reading it
4. Don't take on the role of
streamer unless you are fully aware of what the expectations
are. Problems arose because of how ill prepared
the stream was. We live in an age with lots of quality streams
and budding scenes. So if you want to offer us your services
please coordinate in a way where we can invest our energy into
the most important thing, the part where we grow it for you
and invest our energy into producing content live.
-I had no criteria for deciding if/how to run pools, and as a result just ran a straight bracket. There's been some debate about whether pools would have helped in this particular case, but I believe pools always have the potential to speed up an event considering the variety of ways they can be run. In a very extreme case one could take over 60 entrants down to a bracket of just top 8 in one round of pools. That's hardly typical and I doubt many people would prefer it, but my point is that pools are versatile in how they can be run for different sizes. A criteria for determining if and how pools should be run at an event is one of my main goals for the guide.
Some thoughts on pools from Dark Hart:
One way to have gotten pools done in this scenario (and future ones)
would be to have multiple waves. Spitting things up would make it easier
on the TOs and entrants, make more set-ups available per pool, give
time for a food break (wave 1 plays out their pools while wave 2 gets to
go eat and vice-versa) and would cut down the time it would take to run
them overall in such an environment. It would also eliminate the time
waiting in between each round of bracket being that it would cut the size
down dramatically (e.g. 85 entrants could be split into 8 pools, 5 pools of
11 and 3 pools of 10, and have top 4 make a 32 man bracket).
The amount of entrants we're getting now is insane, so it's best we get
all of this out if the way now.
-Considering number of setups in deciding to cap entry. Setups were actually not one of my main problems with this event in particular, but I should have capped entry somewhere. Clowsui suggested using a ~1/6th setup
layer ratio: entry should be capped when there are 6 times more players than setups. This doesn't take time allotted into account, but specific numbers like these are what I would like to put together for the guide.
The Guide As A Work In Progress
As things come together I'll be adding content to this section.
Hello everyone. I'm posting this thread because I'd like your help/input in creating an all-purpose guide to running a tournament. Last month I attempted to run a tournament, Midstate Massacre 3, which essentially failed. I was the only TO, the number of entrants was more than double what I expected, and I attempted to run 5 games in 9 hours. To make a long story short, we didn't finish. I've had some notes sitting on my computer about what went wrong since then, and I've been meaning to make something specific out of them. After watching Fight Pitt IV have similar problems this weekend- PM being canceled, Melee running late, and GimR getting locked up- it occurred to me these sorts of issues may continue to arise more and more frequently given the current state of the community. Rolling off of Evo and the documentary the Melee scene is more massive than it's ever been. This gives us the potential to run more, larger, and better events. I think this calls for an organized guide, applicable to all situations, that a TO can use to determine exactly how to successfully run their tournament. I would like your help in constructing this guide as a collaborative community effort.
Goal:
The primary goal is to prepare a TO to successfully run their event regardless of the scale. I imagine this guide as having two categories of guidelines: a general set, not unlike the stickies already posted in this forum, which have advice for things like communicating, decision/rule enforcement, the role of TO and potential assistant roles, etc. More importantly, it should have a quantitative set that gives the TO a framework for assessing their resources (number of setups, number of laptops, time allotted, etc.), comparing those resources to the type/number of games they would like to run, and allows them to determine the best way to go about it, if it is realistic. I.e., taking into account how many setups there are for each game, how many games can be run simultaneously, and how much time is allotted, the guide should suggest capping entry at a certain point, help decide whether or not to run pools, etc.
MSM3 As An Example
Here I'll summarize the things that went wrong at MSM3 and the thoughts I recorded afterword, as well as some of the input I got from other NC TOs. Not all of this is directly applicable to the guide, I'm more interested in developing a way to look at resources and tell the TO when/if to cap entry or run pools and things like that, but anyway this is what I'm starting with.
-A flexible/tentative schedule is not enough for a potentially large event. I recycled the tentative schedule from my last two tournaments, which were much smaller and more relaxed. I thought that because they were labeled "tentative" people would not base their travel plans/arrival time around them. In my previous events PM was run after Melee and Brawl because there was time for it, so I put PM at 6pm on the tentative schedule. Some players drove 4 hours to get there, arrived just after I decided to close entry, and were almost not entered. I was realizing at that point that finishing on time was going to be difficult and was trying to be adamant about closing entry. When they told me how far they had come I allowed those players into bracket, but obviously this sort of confusion is problematic. If the number of potential entrants is questionable the guide should help the TO post information ahead of time in their thread saying that registration will definitely close at a specific time, and entry will definitely be capped at a certain point if necessary.
-Players did not pre-register as much as I would have liked. I did feel that this event was going to be larger than my other two (I just didn't realize how MUCH larger), so I put a pre-registration system in place. A negligible amount of players used it, most of whom I already knew were coming, and none of whom traveled from out of state. This is because there was essentially no incentive to pre-register. The venue cost me nothing and I wanted to encourage new players/people outside the community by keeping the cost low, so I did not charge a venue fee and had nothing to waive. It may be beneficial for the guide to have a section about pre-reg systems and tips for their success.
-There were not enough laptops/TOs to coordinate everything going on. This one is pretty simple. The guide should somehow take into account the number of TOs and laptops when determining what size event can realistically be run. Running short on time I was frantically trying to get many people entered into multiple events on one computer, and some players were entered into the wrong event, which was realized until after brackets were underway. Additionally some players were DQ'd from one game while playing a tournament set for another game due to lack of coordination.
I had an idea for a possible way to make use of multiple laptops and TOs:
Using challonge, a google doc, and instant messing, TOs can easily coordinate with each other while running one game per laptop. On a google doc a spreadsheet can be simultaneously maintained by all TOs. Each row is a player, and there are four columns:
ALIAS GAMES START TIME WAITING
Where ALIAS is self-explanatory, GAMES is a list of all games that player entered, START TIME says what time the match started if the player is in a match, and in WAITING TOs list any games that are waiting on that player. Rows are highlighted corresponding to what game the player is playing if they are in a match. TOs updated the spreadsheet as they call matches. When a player reports a match result, the TO can tell them if another game is waiting on them. This is geared toward large events and would work best with two TOs per laptop (one to call matches and such while the other works on the computer).
Sample:
-There were multiple issues with the stream. Not quite my main focus here, maybe something for a totally separate guide, but I figure I may as well post what I have. These are Clowsui's thoughts about the stream at MSM3:
1. Commentator list should be provided by TO or by the
people who the TO feels can be trusted to delegate
2. Make sure either you or someone you trust is by the rig
the whole time
3. Leave out a physical copy of "rules" for your commentator
and have all individuals involved in commentary sign it to
acknowledge reading it
4. Don't take on the role of
streamer unless you are fully aware of what the expectations
are. Problems arose because of how ill prepared
the stream was. We live in an age with lots of quality streams
and budding scenes. So if you want to offer us your services
please coordinate in a way where we can invest our energy into
the most important thing, the part where we grow it for you
and invest our energy into producing content live.
-I had no criteria for deciding if/how to run pools, and as a result just ran a straight bracket. There's been some debate about whether pools would have helped in this particular case, but I believe pools always have the potential to speed up an event considering the variety of ways they can be run. In a very extreme case one could take over 60 entrants down to a bracket of just top 8 in one round of pools. That's hardly typical and I doubt many people would prefer it, but my point is that pools are versatile in how they can be run for different sizes. A criteria for determining if and how pools should be run at an event is one of my main goals for the guide.
Some thoughts on pools from Dark Hart:
One way to have gotten pools done in this scenario (and future ones)
would be to have multiple waves. Spitting things up would make it easier
on the TOs and entrants, make more set-ups available per pool, give
time for a food break (wave 1 plays out their pools while wave 2 gets to
go eat and vice-versa) and would cut down the time it would take to run
them overall in such an environment. It would also eliminate the time
waiting in between each round of bracket being that it would cut the size
down dramatically (e.g. 85 entrants could be split into 8 pools, 5 pools of
11 and 3 pools of 10, and have top 4 make a 32 man bracket).
The amount of entrants we're getting now is insane, so it's best we get
all of this out if the way now.
-Considering number of setups in deciding to cap entry. Setups were actually not one of my main problems with this event in particular, but I should have capped entry somewhere. Clowsui suggested using a ~1/6th setup
layer ratio: entry should be capped when there are 6 times more players than setups. This doesn't take time allotted into account, but specific numbers like these are what I would like to put together for the guide.The Guide As A Work In Progress
As things come together I'll be adding content to this section.
Last edited:
