Spacies vs. Marth on FD

[Denjinpachi]

Would anyone be able to give me a good idea on how to approach this specific match up for fox and falco vs. Marth on this stage? Everytime I run it in locals, I struggle to consistently establish a ground game with either character. What exactly is it that marth struggles with on FD that I can use against him? Do I need to apply a lot of laser pressure or damage from both characters in general for the neutral of this MU? How do you typically follow up with launchers after you get marth to 30 percent or higher on this stage? any and all kind of information on how to edge out wins or dominate the stage would be greatly appreciated. As well as information on what to do in the neutral period.

 

[Sp1nda]

The biggest issue for Marth on this stage is that the ceiling is almost as low as Pokemon Stadium, just without platforms. Once you get Marth into the air on this stage, it is very hard for him to come back down, considering he only has a couple of options, which are;
1.) Try to double jump away (this is easy to account for)
2.) Stall with side-b in the air
3.) Do an aerial on your way down.
That more benefits Fox however, since Falco doesn't have a strong vertical game. With the right positioning, you should be able to react and cover all of these options. Since Marth's grab game and combos on this stage are very strong, you want to bait out a grab and punish it strongly. You want to play more defensively against Marth, since a missed approach leaves you open to a nasty combo. Staying back and lasering is the safe option, and you always want to apply pressure with speed. By this, I mean dashing close to Marth, empty short hops, and just movement overall.

 

[JoeTango]

falco: spam lasers

fox: spam lasers but also run around a lot

thats what I do and I placed 17th at a 91 man so im basically god

 

[AscendantAquila]

For Fox you want to stay mobile and play pretty safe as Marth's grab combos are pretty strong. You can laser, but don't do it in such way where you corner yourself or can punished for it as you want to laser to force the Marth to approach to unsafely approach. On the topic of Marth approaches, his aerial approach is pretty poor as both nair and fair are not that safe and should he Dtilt or grab to approach you can beat these with a SH Drill into a combo. A big part of this matchup, especially on FD is the dash dance game so you really want to be looking for movement patterns and pay attention to his dash length as this can help to tip you off to whether or not he is going to Dtilt. His shield is also pretty bad and his OOS options are poor too, so if you go on the offensive and pressure him, he is very vulnerable but like before try to be pretty safe when doing this.

Another thing to learn is the Leffen shine, many Marths have trouble with this and can help mitigate punish from his throws unless the Marth pivots. For the Leffen shine you DI the slightest bit behind him and shine out and when mixed up with no DI it becomes pretty hard to chaingrab unless they use pivots (Most good Marths should do this).

 

[Denjinpachi]

yeah, I never really thought of shining out of the CG on FD.

 

[Twinkles]

Running shine on Fox really helps Fox win ground game against Marth. Armada loves doing this against PPMD Marth. It's really fast, noncommittal, and if you land it you can waveshine into free grab (or usmash if you're a legend) into free damage.

I think for a lot of characters , a good ground gameplan vs. Marth is to find a way to discourage dtilt use (read dtilt, sh over it and aerial) and force Marth to try to space with aerials, then start catching his jumps.