Sonic's Position In Tier List??

[Kr3w]

I know it'll be a while before the tier list is made, but i just wanted to know your opinion on where Sonic would land on the tier list. High, Mid, Low... GOD even??

 

[staindgrey]

Screw tiers.

I really hope that all that work to eliminate the "tiers" paid off. I'm sure people will find different ways to make certain characters unstoppable- it's inevitable- but here's to hoping that every character can hold his- or her- own.

That being said, in the right hands with high reflexes, Sonic looks to be a beast.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Tiers will always exist, as long as there are tournaments. It's far too early to even think about tiers, let alone where Sonic would place on one. Yet another pointless thread in the Sonic character discussion. There's at least twice as many pointless threads as there are useful ones.

 

[StealthFighterX]

Way too early to tell...but those lucky vids make sonic look sexy! He looks hard to master but easy to play with..but again this is already known on other topics.

 

[Kr3w]

I know it's way too early to tell, thats why I said, "I know it'll be a while till a tier list is made"
But I'm just asking for your opinion on how good you think he'll be based on what you've seen.

 

[StealthFighterX]

Well id say he's gonna be pretty good..he speed is something that must be mastered to even play with him so yea he seems cool. Im going to main him anyway so my opinion might be curved lol.

 

[SETHMASTEROFPKMN]

I bet he'll be top tier. Speed seems to be a dominating factor, as is combo ability. Sonic has rediculous amounts of BOTH (three times as fast as Fox) and pretty good smash attacks to deliver the killing blow.

 

[StealthFighterX]

Speed wise yea but not so much in power...hes Bair Fsmash and Dsmash are his kill moves..seems like u use his speed to rack up damage then go for the kill. Homing attack i forget but i think its a kill move also..i know its a great recovering move.

 

[Kr3w]

Yeah he looks like he has potential to be a great combo-er but i don't know about his killing moves. And his recovery isn't bad so he should be pretty high up on the list

 

[metahunter]

tiers are obvisly still here sonics uber speed will do good for him but it will take a few months/years for someone to master his uncontrolable style plus the fact that a simple doge from the enemy leavs him wide open for a combo that will take away some ranks

 

[Spin Dashie]

Tiers is basically saying how much or little potential a character has in excelling at the game. (Mindgames, projectiles, ect) Im indifferent about the tier list, but when it does come out, id expect Sonic to be High or Top Tier. Im leaning more towards High tier though.

 

[Ced The Lad]

I know many people have said this already, but it really is too soon to tell. The thing about tiers is that they don't measure how good a character is. They are based on the characters' overall positioning in competitive tournaments. I say this only because many people think that a character's attributes purely determine the tier list. So if they play a character that has overall fast/strong attacks who kill early, they may be prone to think that said character is in top tier. In reality, many more variables are taken into consideration.

For example, tiers would take into account a character's recovery game in all non-banned stages in tournament play. But in order to measure that recovery, you have to compare it to more variables such as how their recovery game matches up against characters with multiple jumps, projectiles, edge-hoggers, etc. And that's just the surface of everything that needs to be considered.


*End lecture sorry*


But I do like to make educated guesses, so I'll bite.

Assuming that we stick to the default mode of play (none of that high gravity stuff) we can safely say that people live at higher percentages. Not only that, but I've noticed that people live longer against characters who kill horizontally than vertically (mostly due to increased DI frames and the auto-sweetspot).

Now I haven't played Sonic but to quote other people who have:

dsmash barely has killing potential, but its still la good move. his fsmash has tons of knockback and probably his best killing move. i cant really see his dair getting a lot of kills unless the opponent is at like 170% or higher. His usmash doesn't really kill, but its a great move that does good damage and has high priority. overall though, sonics moves have decent knockback so its not like hes left with nothing like mario in melee (except with a sweetspotted fsmash), and he combos well for edgeuarding.

It's tough actually landing blows but a few are surprising in how they hurt (fair, dair, the down smash) his up smash can't kill anything from what I played, but the f smash and down smash can get the job done. I find his homing attack surprisingly effective in starting up another hit or two, but I never managed to kill with it.

Ok just by going by these two impressions, it seems like he has a bit of a metaknight issue. It's not too hard to deal damage but he has limited killing moves. This becomes a problem once we consider the diminishing attacks effect. With limited kill moves, a player is more likely to spam the kill moves in order to take out a stock. We also see that the Fsmash is his strongest move, and while we've all seen it get the job done, it still has to deal with the horizontal KO factor.

But Sonic is fast on the ground and has a fantastic recovery. That recovery can also be used on the offensive side to chase people who stay above Sonic for long periods of time. I hear his Uair is also a reliable kill move provided you hit with it. (Might be hard on a normal double jump but the spring will help)

Provided that a Sonic player changes the pace of his game (alternating between a turtling speedster and an aerial poker) while taking advantage of his UpB as a recovery and attack, I don't see him falling below Upper tier at Peach's spot if I have to make a comparison. Unless of course we find something incredibly broken that can be used to his advantage or for against him. At any rate, I can't put him any higher because others seem to outrange him with projectiles, swords, etc.

And for the record, I hesitate to give any character Melee Fox/Falco status until we see something crazy ala waveshining.


Edit: When I say Peach's spot, I mean Peach's Melee tier spot.

 

[shrinkray21]

I would say that Sonic is making it to high tier when the game gets to that stage...the one consistent things with tiers ever since the 64 version is that "fast characters always become the high tier"...this is because when you learn any glitches that increase speed of attacks...the faster the character, the more they benefit.

 

[CT Chia]

i predict high. hes being used a decent amount so sonic techs will be discovered kinda soon. that, and i have a feeling hes going to have a lot of good matchups against others.

 

[shrinkray21]

The only thing I do actually worry about matchup wise is a character with range and quick kill moves, I have a friend who is gonna main Ike/Marth and I think that is gonna be a nightmare...O.o

 

[BananaNut]

Well, it's WAY too early to come up with a teir list, but from some of the videos that I've seen, people need to use sonic's spindash more effectively.

When I find a video I'll put it up, but I remember a sonic verses fox one where sonic gets knocked about three characters from fox, and then goes into a defencive dsmash. If that dsmash was a down B (the spindash) it looked as if sonic could get to fox and start a combo.

 

[StealthFighterX]

The only thing I do actually worry about matchup wise is a character with range and quick kill moves, I have a friend who is gonna main Ike/Marth and I think that is gonna be a nightmare...O.o

Not really...they have moves that can counter sonic..ikes side special can be used to move around faster and with techs he can be fast...but yea any slow character will have trouble against a fast one...but thats common.

 

[SETHMASTEROFPKMN]

The only thing I do actually worry about matchup wise is a character with range and quick kill moves, I have a friend who is gonna main Ike/Marth and I think that is gonna be a nightmare...O.o

Against quick kill characters (i.e. Ike) and characters who get strogner with more dmg (Lucario) Sonic may ahve a problem. Another problem (and yet his biggest plus) is his speed. He's really hard to control. Dash Cancelling (if possible in Brawl) will be difficult, just because he moves SO FAST. So, in inexperienced areas (rec, locals, etc) Sonic might be seen (by the so-called "Pros" at the area) as a lame character, and probably only played by fanboys/no0bs.

But in the more experienced circle, Sonic has the potential to be a killer. he seems to be a great combo-er, and I've seen some videos where people rack up 120+% using tons of different moves, thereby preventing a decrease in power. They also do this with astonishing speed (duh), then finish the opponent off with a quick F-smash.

So, the Blue Blur is guarenteed no-less than high-tier (going by Melee's play. I've heard brawl is different).

 

[weirdaljedifan2]

WTH, Brawl isn't out in the USA yet and already your talking about a stupid tier list? Tier List are useless.
It's not the character you choose, it's how you play the character.

 

[Digital Angel]

WTH, Brawl isn't out in the USA yet and already your talking about a stupid tier list? Tier List are useless.
It's not the character you choose, it's how you play the character.

...sigh I can't believe I'm still hearing this. Sonic's not looking as good as I'd thought he'd be.

 

[LuCKy]

...but those lucky vids make sonic look sexy!

omg you **** my friend......and sonic is just sexy in general

 

[Turbo Ether]

Sonic is the fastest character on the ground. has great recovery, good combo agility and average knockback. However, he has poor range and priority, no projectile and is easily shield grabbed because most of his good attacks involve his entire body. Bair is his only kill move that can't be punished easily. It's hard to tell how well he will place on the tier list.

 

[shrinkray21]

I've been watching a lot of Lucky videos as well...currently, he's the best sonic player out there posting...I think sonic has a good amount of potential...

For the people who are upset about a tier list, this is just killing time till we actually get to play the game and test it for ourselves, no reason to complain here.

P.S. I think the only thing sonic is really missing at this point is a move that is sure-fire kill (aka a ken combo)...if we can find something like that...he'll ****.

 

[Teebs]

After playing with Sonic, I could see him as a high-end Middle Tier character. There are a few things that I've noticed that he lacks in, such as his B move, wish it could do a bit more damage.

 

[LuCKy]

I've been watching a lot of Lucky videos as well...currently, he's the best sonic player out there posting...I think sonic has a good amount of potential...

lol you **** too

 

[shrinkray21]

lols, thank you, i'm really looking forward to when I get to play sonic fulltime. I'm pretty jealous of you right now

 

[Layupfreak]

eww tiers.. ewww.

 

[Dragonbreath]

WARNING! IGNORANT AMERICAN WHO HASN'T EVEN PLAYED THE DEMO WALKING IN! (That'd be me.) SHOOT TO KILL!

If there's one make or break point for Sonic, it's timing. Even more so than the game in general, a Sonic main needs to find the gaps in his opponents patterns. We'll probably have trouble against guys that play defensively. Additionally, since he doesn't have much of a chance to kill off the sides or the top, Sonic mains need to be really good at edgeguarding (Good thing we've got that up-b.).

On the bright side, with Sonic's speed and jump height, we don't have to concentrate on avoiding attacks as much as, say, Link mains. It's easy for us. That, and Sonic's combo abilities make it easy for us to punish our opponent's mistakes.

So the metagame as I see it is...Play defense for a while. When you opponent jumps in on the attack, wait for an opening and combo him. Repeat until you've racked up enough damage to start an edgegaurding game. Win at edgegaurding.

Right. Looking forward to corrections to that last paragraph so I can understand the metagame better. (That means you, Lucky.)

 

[J18]

from what i've heard, sonic blows. don't get me wrong though, i really hope he's not as bad as they say, and it's really too early to say, cuz sometime or another, someone's going to figure out how to do something with sonic effectively. i plan on maining him anyways, regardless of how bad he might be

 

[shrinkray21]

I honestly just played a tourney a couple weeks ago with the best ness and best yoshi i've ever seen...the reality is that they took the time out to put the effort into those players...sonic is definitely good enough to be worth the effort to main him.

 

[TheOfficialSonicFanboy]

Sonic looks amazing. I'm not going to staple his spot on the tier list, but I think it'll be a middle to high ranking.
I don't think anyone has come even close to Sonic's real potential because of his ridiculous speed. We'll have to wait it out. I think one of the people who has come closest is Lucky, and even then he'll learn a lot more that will make these older vids look like noob-play. That's how drastic I think the difference will be.

 

[Sonic_Wolf]

tiers suck i hope people are smart enough not to ruin the game by making them

 

[weirdaljedifan2]

from what i've heard, sonic blows. don't get me wrong though, i really hope he's not as bad as they say, and it's really too early to say, cuz sometime or another, someone's going to figure out how to do something with sonic effectively. i plan on maining him anyways, regardless of how bad he might be

Right on. You know my best character is the Bottom Tier Bowser.

 

[Zevox]

tiers suck i hope people are smart enough not to ruin the game by making them

People don't make tiers, they just compile them. The fact that some characters will be better or worse than others is a basic fact of any game in which characters have different abilities - perfect balance is impossible without making everyone the same. The best you can hope for is that the game is balanced enough that the tiers have minimal effect on the game. Truth be told, as games go, Melee was pretty darn good in that regard. Short of the professional scene, tiers really didn't make much of a difference; it was only at top-level play that it became a fairly big deal. With any luck, Brawl will be like that too, or perhaps better if the development team did really well.

Zevox

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

honestly the game is a lot mor balanced than melee... mening that teir won't mean as much.

that having been said, sonic definitely fits in the category of "there are more characters that are better than him than are worse than him"

 

[sHy)(gUy]

sonic will be at the top of low tier or bottom of mid-tier