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Sonic techs in Smash Ultimate

Sprysor

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Raidan

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You can still spinshot, but the timing is a little more strict and you have to do it with spin dash, they changed aerial spin charge so I don't think it's possible to pull off spinshot with it anymore. So for both aerials and grounded, you'll have to use side b instead of down b.

They changed the mechanics for how sonic can come out of his side b, so you can't footstool right out of it anymore; therefore, I'm pretty sure spinstool spike isn't possible anymore. However, there is a less landing lag on his down b, so short hop dair may be viable, and there are still other ways to combo off his dair.

As for ISDJ (instant spin dash jump), I know for a fact that Vertical spin dash jump is still in the game, so I believe you should still be able to pull it off, although I'll have to workshop it.
 

Sprysor

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You can still spinshot, but the timing is a little more strict and you have to do it with spin dash, they changed aerial spin charge so I don't think it's possible to pull off spinshot with it anymore. So for both aerials and grounded, you'll have to use side b instead of down b.

They changed the mechanics for how sonic can come out of his side b, so you can't footstool right out of it anymore; therefore, I'm pretty sure spinstool spike isn't possible anymore. However, there is a less landing lag on his down b, so short hop dair may be viable, and there are still other ways to combo off his dair.

As for ISDJ (instant spin dash jump), I know for a fact that Vertical spin dash jump is still in the game, so I believe you should still be able to pull it off, although I'll have to workshop it.
Thx dude
 

PokéfreakofBACON

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I'm having a lot of trouble pulling off spinshot. I basically never played sonic in 4, so it's really new to me. I've only managed to do it in training mode twice at 1/4th speed. Can someone give me a better explanation of the timing for ultimate?
 

MarKO X

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You charge side B for about a second or two, then you flick the cstick down (if the c stick is set to tilt). Spin shot won't shoot if the spin dash is fully charged, so basically you see how long the full charge takes, and there's a nice window before full charge when the spin will shot.
 

iSpiN

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I'm trying tilt stick again as I've been on the fence about it. Trying it now in training I still can't pull off the new spin shot.
 

Raidan

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Hey so fresh out training mode, and i've been work shopping spin shot. (sorry if this is long, i did a lot of testing)

So the first (and most obvious) thing you have to know about spin shot is that you need to save your double jump when using it. A lot of people (including me) will instinctively use up their jump when they're sent flying, and when they try and spin shot to recover, they just end up killing themselves.

Also, i said this in a previous comment, but you have to use spin dash in ultimate, spin charge will not result in a spin shot anymore, as a matter of fact, aerial spin charge is kind of trash in this game.

Another thing, I have tested it, you can perform the jump out of spin dash (the "shot" part of spinshot) by pressing: A, X, Y, or flicking the c-stick in any direction (yeah any direction, i tested them all). The C-stick doesn't have to be a tilt stick, I was able to perform spinshot with a smash stick and a tilt stick. And every button should send you relatively equal distances. I typically just use A, or flick the c-stick to the side, as these are the fastest inputs i can do.

Final note before explanation:
You can't do a spinshot with a fully charged spin dash, it doesn't actually matter how long you charge your spin dash for, but you can't jump cancel out of a fully charged spin dash right away, so jump before the animation turns yellow.

*I tested it quite a bit, and I couldn't find a difference in height or distance based off of how long I held B down (before fully charged), or based off of which input I used to jump; please let me know if you can prove any of this wrong

The timing for spin shot is a little tricky, but extremely doable. Once you figure out how to do it, it will be pretty easy to get is consistently. So to understand the timing, let me break down spin dash a little.

Too Fast:
If you just tap the direction you wanna go, tap B, and then immediately A, you'll probably do a vertical spin dash jump, which is just going straight up in your spinning form. Also, I've tried just sliding my finger from B to A, and i found that was just barely too fast.

Too slow:
If you perform the jump after or towards the end of the hop animation: if you're in the air you'll just jump cancel out of your spin dash, and if you're on the ground, you'll do a spin dash jump. Sometimes the jump cancel looks similar to a spin shot, and you might get the same horizontal distance from it. However, you get zero vertical recovery from, where spinshot usually shoots you into the air and into a rainbow like arch, a jump cancel will send you straight forward and diagonally down. So if you're too slow with your spinshot timing offstage, you may end up underneath the stage.

Just right:
After you release the B button, it's almost immediately afterwards when you jump. The way I time it, is that your window is between when you let go of B and when sonic is in the peak of his hop animation. (But honestly, I don't think of it that way, I kinda just let B go and tap A before Sonic starts moving forward.)

I hope this helped!
 

iSpiN

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This actually helped a lot! I found I can do this now without using c-stick at all (timing is easier with c-stick though). I will practice using A button though so I can go back to smash stick if I change back.
 

Camalange

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Thanks for crediting my videos!

I almost feel like I need to do update videos for each of those techniques now. It's mostly been re-explained, but here's the quick rundown.

Dair spike: yeah?
From what I've seen you still kinda can, but you can't get a second footstool after Dair anymore (iirc). Also, percents and characters are different that it works on in 4 so requires more testing.

Spinshot: yes
You can Spinshot with Spin Dash and Spin Charge. Spin Dash works in the air AND on the ground. Spin Charge works only in the air. You can't do it from a fully charged SD (unless airborne), but it only takes a small amount of charge to work. Just release "B" and cancel with Jump, Attack, or my preference, down on the C-Stick (tilt stick). For Down-B Spinshot, setting Jump to L or R helps a lot.

ISDJ: no
You can do a cheap version of it that's kinda similar but not really. Similar timing, less strict, not nearly as useful.

Hope that helps.

:093:
 
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Camalange

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Thanks for crediting my videos!

I almost feel like I need to do update videos for each of those techniques now. It's mostly been re-explained, but here's the quick rundown.

Dair spike: yeah?
From what I've seen you still kinda can, but you can't get a second footstool after Dair anymore (iirc). Also, percents and characters are different that it works on in 4 so requires more testing.

Spinshot: yes
You can ONLY Spinshot with Spin Dash now. Spin Charge version is gone. SD Spinshot works in the air AND on the ground. You can't do it from a full charged SD, but it only takes a small amount of charge to work. Just release "B" and cancel with Jump, Attack, or my preference, down on the C-Stick (tilt stick).

ISDJ: no
You can do a cheap version of it that's kinda similar but not really. Similar timing, less strict, not nearly as useful.

Hope that helps.

:093:
Double posting to clarify.

Down-B Spinshot still exists, just closer to frame-perfect now.

:093:
 

Lucifroz

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New tech that I found at like 120-150% is a kill confirm depending on weight.

When close to ledge, do a full charge (I think) down-b and do a quick jump to f-air for the kill confirm.
 

Camalange

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New tech that I found at like 120-150% is a kill confirm depending on weight.

When close to ledge, do a full charge (I think) down-b and do a quick jump to f-air for the kill confirm.
Not new, but definitely valid.

:093:
 

Sprysor

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Do you have an idea for the dair spike combo with the spin dash and spin charge for the kill confirm
 

SomeGuyInAPlace

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I'm trying tilt stick again as I've been on the fence about it. Trying it now in training I still can't pull off the new spin shot.
Tilt stick has been great for me so far. Ftilt gets people off you and beats parry at close range, dtilt is a fast poke with little endlag, and utilt is a good combo starter that reaches above platforms.

Do you have an idea for the dair spike combo with the spin dash and spin charge for the kill confirm
It's possible to combo directly into a downair out of a spin, no footstool needed
 
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Camalange

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Do you have an idea for the dair spike combo with the spin dash and spin charge for the kill confirm
I think it's just not a thing anymore.

:093:
 

Myst_R

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The C-stick doesn't have to be a tilt stick
I have tested SDSS (Spin Dash Spinshot) in training mode and I couldn't pull it off with C-Smash. My method was simple, I used Frame by Frame "speed" and checked how to perform SDSS.

I discovered we need to charge SD for 22 frames. Then we have to release SD AND input A, jump or C-tilt on the 23rd frame.

So basically, I set up "frame by frame" > I hold Side B > I press L 22 times (still holding Side B) > I release Side B > I press A or jump or C-tilt > I press L 1 time (still pressing A or jump or C-tilt) > then I release my input and keep pressing L to admire the spinshot.

I figured out it didn't work properly with C-smash. The best i obtained was a "half spinshot", which is in fact a DJ cancelled ASD.

Tell me if I did something wrong or if I'm not clear on how I experimented it.

Sum up : SDSS startup on 23rd frame, impossible to do with C-smash
 
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