Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE! UPDATED: 7/18/17

Camalange

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#1
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"What the f*ck is a Sonic?" - SEGA :4sonic:

Upon venturing the contents stored within this thread, you will encounter a plethora of Sonic information for both novices and professionals alike. Anything from, but not limited to, patch notes, frame data, and advanced Sonic techniques can be discovered. Also archived are commonly asked questions, occasionally accompanied by tutorial videos to further elaborate. Open discussions to all are had when pondering relevant questions, though be prepared to perhaps become the target of our quick wit: Super Sonic style.

Welcome to the Sonic Boards.

  • 12/19/14 - Stole this "Edit History" idea from Sonic Orochi.
  • 1/2/15 - Added the history of "Winning Steak".
  • 1/9/15 - Updated BSBS description.
  • 1/15/15 - Updated Spinshot and Instant Spin Dash Jump inputs with button icons.
  • 1/23/15 - Added "Slow Spin Roll aka Lyric Dash" to Sonic Specific Terminology.
  • 1/24/15 - Noticed that I somehow forgot Invincible Spin Dash Roll this whole time.
  • 2/24/15 - Added a "How to Spinshot" tutorial video.
  • 3/17/15 - Touched up terminology and explained "Grinding".
  • 3/31/15 - Sonic;Boards
  • 4/1/15 - Spring Warp Glitch: description and video added.
  • 4/23/15 - Created an Ask.fm for users to ask anonymous questions and get direct answers from me.
  • 4/25/15 - Added v1.0.6 changes to Spinshot.
  • 5/22/15 - New video on Instant Spin Dash Jump.
  • 6/24/15 - v1.0.8 patch notes and patch note history, IASA term added, and general clean-up.
  • 7/22/15 - RAR added to general terminology list.
  • 8/18/15 - v1.1.0 patch notes.
  • 10/25/15 - v1.1.1 patch notes.
  • 11/12/15 - "Platform Bounce Canceling" tutorial added.
  • 12/15/15 - Cited the Smash Dictionary for further terminology explanations. Updated how Platform Canceling works. Included Sonic's complete frame data.
  • 12/22/15 - v1.1.3 patch notes and Sonic Orochi's BSBS video added.
  • 2/10/16 - v1.1.4 patch notes.
  • 5/3/16 - v1.1.5 patch notes, added an over-dramatic thread introduction, and performed a massive overhaul on the differences between Side-B and Down-B as well as general clean-up.
  • 6/1/16 - v1.1.6 patch notes and Jtails' Sonic Competitive Tutorial feat. Camalange (me).
  • 11/2/16 - In a fit of anxiety, I randomly decided to finally add the "Double/Triple Spring" Q&A to this thread.
  • 7/18/17 - v1.1.7 patch notes.
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lol
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General Common Terminology, Prefixes, & Suffixes:
IASA
- Interruptible As Soon As
RAR - Reverse Aerial Rush
FSJ - Footstool Jump
AT - Advanced Technique
DD - Dash Dance
SC - Shield Cancel [But can also refer to Spin Charge (context will be your best friend)]
JC - Jump Cancel
DJ - Double Jump
FJ - Full Jump
SH - Short Hop
PP - Perfect Pivot
P - Pivot
A - Aerial/Air
G - Grounded/Ground
I - Instant
i - Invincible
V - Vertical
J - Jump
R - Roll

Not-So-Basic Sonic-Specific Terminology:
SC = Spin Charge [Down-B]
ASC = Aerial Spin Charge [Aerial Down-B]
SCR = Spin Charge Roll [Grounded Spin Charge Roll]
SD = Spin Dash [Side-B]
SDH = Spin Dash Hop [Release Side-B]
SDR = Spin Dash Roll [Grounded Spin Dash Roll]
ASDR = Aerial Spin Dash Roll [When the Spin Dash Roll itself (Not an Aerial Spin Dash Hop) is airborne)]
iSDR [PATCHED] = Invincible Spin Dash Roll [Extending Sonic's Side-B invincibility through the roll from a slope, has since been removed]
SJ = Spin Jump ["Tip Official" Non-Specific Spin Jump done out of Spin Dash/Charge Roll]
SCJ = Spin Charge Jump [Jump Attack done out of a Spin Charge Roll]
SDJ = Spin Dash Jump [Jump Attack done out of a Spin Dash Roll]
ISDJ = Instant Spin Dash Jump [Spin Dash Jump done immediately after inputting Side-B during a run]
VSJ = Vertical Spin Jump [Jump done in place out of Spin Dash/Spin Charge]
VSDJ = Vertical Spin Dash Jump ("New") [Spin Dash Jump done out of Spin Dash that retains its charge]
SDSC = Spin Dash Shield Cancel [Hit shield to cancel a Side-B's charge]
SHSJ = Short Hop Spin Jump [Frame specific Short Hop variant of a Spin Jump]
* Can only be done by immediately pressing jump after a Spin Dash, Spin Charge, or Spin Dash Hop, hits the ground.

BSBS = Brawl Spring Bug Stance (aka Brawl Spring Bull Sh*t aka Bull Sh*t Bull Sh*t) [Thanks Sakurai]*
* More information coming soon.

Slow Spin Roll = Slow Spin Dash/Spin Charge Roll (aka Lyric Roll) [Usually happens after it connects with a shield, etc.]
Slope Cancel = Jump Canceling Spin Dash/Spin Charge on a sloped ramp [Inputs & Information listed below]
Spinshot = Double Jump Canceled Spin Dash*/Spin Charge** [Inputs & Information listed below]
* Spin Dash Spinshot can be done both in the air and on the ground.
** Spin Charge Spinshot can only be done in the air.
Spinsh*t = A flubbed Spinshot [git gud]
Grinding = Extended Foxtrot [Input Foxtrot, return joystrick to neutral, and gently push in original direction to extend the slide of a Foxtrot]

The Smash Dictionary Continued.

Character Specific Jargon


:4sonic:Sonic

"HA"- Homing Attack. His neutral special.

"SD"- Spin Dash. This is Sonic's Side-special. Though in context it could also mean 'self destruct' which is to basically kill yourself.

"SDH"- Spin Dash Hop. When you release Side-special, Sonic hops forward initially.

"SC" Spin Charge. This is Sonic's Down-special. Though in context it could also mean 'shield cancel' (for example, you can Shield Cancel the charge of a side-special, otherwise known as a 'SDSC').

"ASC"/"Aerial Spin Charge"/"ASD"/"Aerial Spin Dash"- Using Sonic's down-special and side-special (respectively) in the air.

"VSDJ"- Vertical Spin Dash Jump. Pressing the attack button while charging either side-special or down-special on the ground, or pressing the jump button while charging down-special on the ground, resulting in a slow ball attack that jumps directly upwards and can be cancelled with any aerial option.

"VSDJ2"- Vertical Spin Dash Jump 2. Hitting the jump button while charging side-special on the ground, resulting in Sonic jumping up in a charging ball. You have a decent amount of control over this jump and you will hold the current charge while you're in the air, but it has no hitbox and cannot be cancelled (in fact you are stuck in it until you land, at which point you have all the options available to you that you had before you jumped). Because jumping delays the charge, you can put off shield cancelling the side-special for longer.

"SDSC"- Spin Dash Shield Cancel. While charging Side-special but before it is fully charged, you can cancel the rest of the move by shielding. This can be done out of a Dash or Run to give you a small burst of speed.

"SDR"/"Spin Dash Roll"/"SCR"/"Spin Charge Roll"- When Sonic touches down on the ground after doing that Hop out of his Side special, or when his Down-special is travelling along the ground, this state of rolling forward is called a spin dash roll or spin charge roll respectively.

"SDJ"/"Spin Dash Jump"/"SCJ"/"Spin Charge Jump"- Jumping out of the roll while rolling along the ground after doing Side-special or Down-special.

"SDSH"- Spin Dash Short Hop. If you tap Jump as soon as you hit the ground after landing from the initial hop that occurs when you release side-special (SDH), you will do a smaller version of the SDJ. This can be from a grounded or an aerial side-special. The timing for this is usually very difficult (frame 29 only out of an uncharged side-special used on the ground; frame 30 will give you the regular SDJ, and frame 28 will have Sonic DJ out of the SDH), but if you do a side-special in the air after already having used up your double jump, you can actually hit and hold the jump button anywhere within a 10 frame window before you touch the ground and it will work easily every time.

"ISDJ"- Instant Spin Dash Jump. This is a technique that bypasses much of the animation of side-special to take you straight to doing a spin dash jump (SDJ). Normally if you want to use side special from the ground to do a SDJ, you need to hit side-special, wait for Sonic to curl up into a ball and charge for a moment, then wait for him to hop into the air (SDH) and wait for him to land and finally start rolling along the ground (SDR) before you can press either the attack or the jump button to do a SDJ and launch yourself through the air with a hitbox. The ISDJ skips all of this except for the first 7 frames of Sonic curling up just before he turns into a ball. What you need to do is run (not just dash) hit side-special (you may hold special if you like), then on frame 8 hit the attack button (not the jump button). If you press the attack button 1 frame too early, the input won't register and you'll just do a normal side-special. If you press it 1 frame too late, you'll do a vertical spin dash jump (i.e. you'll jump directly upwards with a hitbox while in a ball). Note that if you hit Backwards on the joystick on frames 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, or 7 then hit attack on frame 8, Sonic will do an ISDJ in the direction of the run as usual except he'll be facing backwards. If instead you hit Backwards on frame 4, you'll turn around mid-roll, start rolling back the other way, and if you hit attack on frame 8 you'll do an ISDJ in the opposite direction of your initial run.

"Spinshot"- This refers to using Sonic's side-special to propel Sonic's double jump forward at a speed and distance not normally possible (so yes, it requires that you still have your DJ). To do this, either hold side-special for a short period of time such that releasing the special button will result in an immediate action then at any point release the special button, only, the very moment (i.e. the same frame) that you release the special button, hit either the attack or jump button. If you hit attack/jump a frame before you release the special button, you'll double jump in place when performed in the air, or you'll do a vertical spin dash jump (VSDJ) when performed on the ground. If you hit either attack or jump a frame after you release the special button, you'll do what looks like a regular double jump forwards.

"BSBS"/"Brawl Spring Bug Stance"/"Bull **** Bull ****"- This is the term used to describe the mechanic/'state' that makes you unable to use your double jump in different ways and for different reasons after having used side-special or down-special. You cannot use a double jump out of a 'SDJ'/'SCJ' if you started the 'SD' or 'SC' in the air, regardless of whether you released it in the air or on the ground. If however you roll off the edge of a platform or the stage and don't do the 'SDJ'/'SCJ', you will be able to double jump. If however, instead of just doing the 'SD'/'SC' in the air you do it in the air and after you've used up your double jump, rolling off the edge will not give you your double jump back. If you use SC in the air then cancel it with shield upon landing, you will retain the 'state' (BSBS) of having used an aerial SC the next time you use a SDR or SCR unless you jump then land at any point before doing the SDR/SCR as the jump will cancel out the 'state'. Similarly, if you start a SD/SC on the ground, go into a SDR/SCR then do a SDJ/SCJ, if you then fast fall without doing anything else, upon landing you will enter the same 'state' in which the game treats you as if you have just done an aerial SD/SC, so the next time you do a SDJ/SCJ, you will be unable to use your double jump unless you break out of the 'state' by jumping and landing. If you do an ASD/ASC then go into a SDR/SCR and let it roll until you stop, you will have entered into the BSBS 'state'. The effect can be sort of stacked as well. For example, if you enter the 'state' of BSBS by any means then do a SDJ/SCJ and fast fall it without doing anything else, if you then do a SDR/SCR and roll of the edge of the stage or a platform, you will not get to do a double jump, just as if you had used a SD/SC in the air after having used your double jump.

"DDP"/"Dash Dance Pivot"- This is what the Sonic's have coined the combination of using foxtrots and dash dances. Essentially, you can foxtrot in one direction, initiate another dash in the same direction then immediately hit backwards (a single dash dance) and then you can use that backward input as a foxtrot, then rinse and repeat. The effect can be much like Dash dancing was in Melee. Naturally, every character can do this, but the term 'DDP' seems to be used almost solely by Sonic mains.

"Steak"- This term, originally accidentally introduced by KirbyandSonicRock14 (KASR) can mean a variety of things. It is often used in the phrase 'winning steak' in which it means 'streak'. 'Steaked' can be used to mean something like 'pwned'. There is even a usage where 'steak' simply refers to Sonic, as in 'the blue steak'. Of course, it's entirely possible that in context 'steak' simply means 'a slice of high quality meat, typically the hindquarters of a cow'.

":093:"- A famous Sonic main spammer (Boxob) used to use the haunter smiley at the end of all his posts. When he was permabanned his fellow Sonic mains started doing the same as a form of protest. He was eventually allowed to come back, but many Sonic mains still carry on the tradition to this day.
sonic;boards.png


For more terminology and in-depth breakdowns, please visit @Fox Is Openly Deceptive's Smash Dictionary.
  • Universal and character-specific Smash Bros. terminology explained, & more!
For a more extensive moveset breakdown, please visit @ Sonic Orochi Sonic Orochi 's Moveset Thread.
  • Includes frame data, damage %'s, & more!
For more match-up specific related qualms, please visit @Rucent's Match-Up Thread.
  • Character breakdowns, match-up specific advice, & more!
& Knuckles


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[Too shy to post? Ask questions anonymously and get direct answers from me.]

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[Jtails: Sonic Competitive Tutorial feat. Camalange]

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Question & Answer:
Q: What exactly is a "Spinshot"?
A: Spinshot is an AT (Advanced Technique) that allows Sonic to jump through the air while retaining the momentum of his ground speed.

Q: How do I shot spin?
A: You can Spinshot from both Side-B and Down-B. Side-B's can be done both on the ground or in the air, but Down-B's can only be done in the air. Both require you inputting jump or attack at or past a certain point during their charge. C-Stick can also be used, if the conditions are met...

Recommended [only?] input(s):
  • Air:
[Partially Hold] or [Fully Charge] :GCR:/:GCL:+:GCB: > [Release] :GCB: > [Tap] :GCA: (Attack) or :GCY:/:GCX:(Jump) or [Flick] :GCCL:/:GCCD:/:GCCR: * , ***

[Tap] :GCD:+:GCB:] > [Release :GCB:] > [Tap] :GCA: (Attack) or :GCY:/:GCX:(Jump) or [Flick] :GCCL:/:GCCU:/:GCCR: ** , ***
  • Ground:
[ * ]
[ ** ]

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* Same
** N/A

*** v1.0.6 - C-Stick only works if controls are switched from Smash to Tilt.


Q: Is Spinshot different from Instant Spin Dash Jump (ISDJ)?
A: Yes! In the purest of explanations, it is quite literally just a SDJ (Spin Dash Jump). It retains your double jump, has an active hitbox, and maintains any other qualities of SDJ, unlike a Spinshot.
* Reference: http://smashboards.com/threads/new-...-instant-spin-dash-jump.373605/#post-17792767 by @ItsRainingGravy

Recommended [only?] input(s):
  • Ground:
[Dash] :GCR:/:GCL: > [Tap] :GCR:/:GCL:+:GCB: (Hold or Release) > immediately [Tap] :GCA: (Attack)


Q: Can Sonic L-Cancel his Down Air (Dair)?
A: No. Sonic used to be able to autocancel his Dair (Down Air) from the max height of his Spring, but this is no longer the case. However, if you're at the approximate distance of a jump plus the max height of a spring and then Dair, it will autocancel. There's no way to shorten the lag. It just has an increased autocancel distance.

v1.0.8 - Earlier IASA (Interruptible As Soon As) Frames. This allows Sonic to jump and/or spring out of his Dair sooner, however, his landing lag and autocancel distance are unaffected.

Q: I used Spring and my opponent teleported to me… Am I crazy?
A: No. If your opponent lands on a grounded spring, and Sonic creates a new spring on the frame that they touch, they will get warped to the new spring and bounce alongside you in order to finish carrying out the original effect.

Q: I did something that looked like a waveland on a platform... How?
A: After landing on a spring or anything that gives you a bounce effect and pressing jump or a specific aerial or special (depending on your character) before passing through a platform, you will perform a platform bounce cancel. This is because certain moves have an autocancel window on start-up, so the move is effectively auto-canceling on the platform, which in turn cancels your momentum.


Q: What is BSBS (Brawl Spring Bug Stance aka Brawl Spring Bull Sh*t aka Bull Sh*t Bull Sh*t...)?
A: This is the mechanic will you learn to despise and will want to call by it's third listed title, because that's precisely what it is.

This mechanic correlates to how Spin Dash/Spin Charge roll stores your double jump. In a normal situation, you can enter a Spin Dash Roll/Charge Roll, do a Spin Dash/Charge Roll, and double jump out of it. However, now, if you start a Spin Dash/Charge from a jump or in the air, enter a Spin Dash/Charge Roll, then Spin Dash/Charge Jump, you are left unable to double jump out. This can lead to many unwanted suicides offstage, or just putting you in general unsafe situations where you are trapped in your spin. This can be negated however by rolling off a ledge (instead of going into a Spin Dash/Charge Jump), making you airborn again, which will give you a double jump.

So yeah, it's bull sh*t.


Cited: @ Sonic Orochi Sonic Orochi 's Moveset Thread

Spin Dash/Charge Roll Shenanigans (a.k.a.: why you keep SDing when using Side B and Down B)
  • You can't double jump out of a SDJ/SCJ that derives from an aerial SD/SC, even if you release those on the ground (i.e.: start them on the air, land and then release them). You can, however, use HA, Spring, air dodge or any aerial to get out of the SDJ/SCJ animation. Also, you can still double jump if you had it available before the ASC/ASD, but only if the SDR/SCR runs off the platform;
  • If you shield cancel an aerial SD (or shield cancel a charge jump from an aerial SD), the game will consider any following SDR/SCR to be a SDR/SCR from a ASD/ASC: you won't be able to jump out of it;
  • if you fastfall a SDJ/SCJ and land without dodging or attacking, you'll lose the ability to double jump out of any subsequent SDJ/SCJ. No matter what you do, you'll have to jump and touch the ground again in order to regain your ability to double jump out of a SDJ/SCJ that allows double-jumping;
  • I've come to the conclusion that the reason behind this SDR shenanigans is due to a certain new mechanic that I'll explain further in the next few sentences. Sonic has two stances: normal, which is, well, your usual stance and Brawl Spring Bug stance (BSBS), which is when the game makes you unable to double jump out of a SDJ/SCJ (similar to how we were unable to double jump in Brawl after a Spring jump that met certain conditions);
    • The BSBS basically means that you're standing on the ground but in a state in which the game thinks you're still in the aerial spin which came from an ASD or ASC. Therefore, any subsequent SDR/SCR you do while in this state will actually make that new, grounded SDR/SCR act like an aerial SDR/SCR (from an aerial Spin Special - SD or SC);
    • However, that is not all. Fastfalling a SDJ/SCJ and doing nothing before landing will also trigger BSBS (fastfalling from greater heights so you can actually get out of the spinning animation before landing will not trigger BSBS, though);
    • Also, if you don't have your double jump available AND enter BSBS, you won't even be able to double jump out of SD's hop;
    • To add to that, if you fastfall a SDJ/SCJ while in BSBS, you'll definitely lose your double jump (even if you had it beforehand). Yep, jumping out of a SDR/SCR off the platform or out of SD's hop is just not going to happen;
    • Some examples that end being straight up BSBS:
      • Fastfall while still spinning: SDJ/SCJ, VSDJ, SDSH;
      • ASD/ASC->land->full stop while on the ground;
      • ASD/ASC->land->SDR/SCR off the platform->land->...->full stop while on the ground (the SDR/SCR off the platform CAN be jump cancelled, but only if you had your double jump available before the ASD/ASC. However, when it touches the ground again, it's BSBS all over again);
      • SCASD (shield cancelled aerial Spin Dash);
      • SCVSDJ2AAASDTINRAIICSYCTDAVSDJ2 (shield cancelled vertical Spin Dash jump 2 after an aerial Spin Dash that is not released and is instead charged so you can then do a vertical Spin Dash jump 2);

Q: Can Sonic still shield cancel his Down-B (Spin Charge)?
A: No. You can no longer shield cancel his Down-B, including but not limited to ASCSC (Aerial Spin Charge Shield Cancel).

Q: Can Sonic still shield cancel his Side-B (Spin Dash)?
A: Yes! Just hit shield at any point before it's fully-charged and it will cancel. This grants Sonic less commitment to his approach and opens up more bait options. Performing this during a run can allow for interesting mechanics, primarily focused around Sonic's ability to initiate a standing grab with various different properties. Utilities for Spin Dash Shield Cancel include...
  1. Spin Dash Shield Cancel Pivot Grab = By running and inputting Side-B in the opposite direction, Sonic will face that position and start charging Spin Dash... Which can be canceled with shield into a grab, returning Sonic to a neutral state to perform a pivot standing grab.
  2. Spin Dash Shield Cancel Boost Grab = Extends the range on Sonic's boost grab, but performs a standing grab out of neutral instead.
  3. Spin Dash Shield Cancel Pivot Boost Grab = Exactly what you think it is. Combine the two above elements together and you get an extra slide on your spin dash shield cancel pivot grab.
Sonic is way past cool (and way past complicated). Practice these techniques and your tech-chasing game will be taken to the next level.

Q: Does Side-B still get extended invincibility from sloped ledges?
A: Yes! The arc of his Spin Dash Hop has been completely changed, so it doesn't work on all the same ledges anymore, but it is still possible. This is a glitch that extends Sonic's initial invincibility on the release of the hop and into the entire duration of the roll. The roll itself will travel through the air in a straight line, as if he were on the ground. Strange, isn't it?

Q: Can Spin Dash Roll (SDR) and Spin Charge Roll (SCR) still be jump-canceled on slopes?
A: Yes! Try pressing jump during a SDR or SCR on stages with slopes such as Corneria, Green Hill Zone, or the bridge on Wuhu Island. Sonic will return completely to neutral state while still maintaining some of his momentum from the SDR or SCR.

Q: Can Sonic do a Double Spring? Or even a Triple Spring? I've seen the videos!
A: No. But yes. Sonic can technically perform Spring multiple times, but it is for a very specific reason. If Sonic gets footstool'd during the Spring launch animation while he's invincible, it masks the "getting footstool'd" animation and gives Sonic his Up-B back. I promise you, if you've ever done Spring more than once, this is the reason why. There is always a hidden footstool involved. Every time. No other reason. I implore you to not argue against this as you are incorrect.

Don't believe the hype.

Q: So... What's the difference between Down-B and Side-B?
A:
Credited assistance: @TonicTheSqurriel, Sonic Orochi Sonic Orochi

Spin Dash (Side-B)
- Single hit
- Can be shield cancelled mid-charge
- There's a hop on start-up, referred to as SDH (Spin Dash Hop)
- On the mentioned Spin Dash Hop, there are invincibility frames. Useful for a variety of actions.
- There is overall more knockback on Spin Dash than Spin Charge, making it easier to combo at low percents.
- After the peak of Spin Dash Hop, Sonic dips straight into the ground. In the air, you can influence his direction by holding backwards, forwards, or no directional input. Since he dips downward, this can somewhat limit his horizontal recovery.
- Spin Dash's Spinshot takes more time to activate than Spin Charge's. Although, you can change your direction while in the air. It can also be done on the ground unlike Spin Charge's.
- Spin Dash's individual hits do more than Spin Charge's. (SDH = 5%, SDR = 6%) (Fresh)
- Spin Dash Jump does less damage than Aerial Spin Charge. (3% Fresh)
- Instant Spin Dash Jump is only possible with Spin Dash. Same with Wavebounced Spin Dash Shield Cancel.
- Spin Dash takes awhile to slow down after colliding with a hurtbox. It will usually continue past the hurtbox.
- During Spin Dash's charge, it reels itself back slightly.
- Spin Dash's charge has a yellow aura and can only be charged by holding the Special button.
- Spin Dash can no longer get extended invincibility off of certain ramps like he could in Brawl.
- Instant Spin Dash Jump is now plausible by perfectly inputting a jump during a run immediately after initiating Spin Dash. This cannot be done from a Spin Charge.
- You can now do a VSJ that retains its charge if you hold Side-B then press jump, which will be dubbed VSDJ (Vertical Spin Dash Jump). If you hold Side-B and jump, you must land, and it will automatically release into SDH, then enter SDR. You can't cancel VSDJ in the air with a jump, but upon landing you can go immediately into a double jump before seeing the Side-B hop, or Spinshot (meaning that even though you can't cancel VSDJ with a regular jump, if you land, it still retains a double jump). Another example being that if you enter VSDJ and go off-stage with it, you will self-destruct. It's no use!

Spin Charge (Down-B)
- Multi-hit on the ground, but no longer multi-hit in the air.
- Cannot be shield cancelled under any circumstance.
- There is no hop; it goes straight into the roll.
- Thanks to the multi-hit, it transcends certain projectiles. Example: Link's bombs
- Spin Charge can beat certain multi jabs.
- Due to the lack of a hop, Spin Charge can be better for recovering horizontally.
- Spin Charge's Spinshot is faster than Spin Dash's, although it can only be done in the air and you are forced to Spinshot in the direction you were initially facing. It can never be done from the ground. Don't believe otherwise or Camalange will personally assault you.
- Spin Charge has less knockback than Spin Dash. This allows for different follow-ups at certain percents or follow-ups working during a different window. Example: At low percents, footstools are possible after SC, and at percents as high as 170, Spin Charge > Nair can still combo.
- While Spin Charge's individual hits do less than damage than Spin Dash's, thanks to the multi-hit property, you can potentially wrack up more damage. [SC = 2% per hit (Fresh)]
- Spin Charge Jump does more damage than Spin Dash Jump. [SCJ = 6% (Fresh)]
- Spin Charge slows down very quickly once it collides with a hurtbox (doesn't matter if it's a character or shield). This allows for a few mix-ups or different follow-ups from Spin Charge.
- In order to charge Spin Charge, you need to mash the Special button.
- Spin Charge glows a pink-ish / purple-ish aura during the charge.
- If you don't charge Spin Charge enough / stop charging Spin Charge, it will fizzle out. This happens in the air as well. You can slide from this if you do it from a run.

Universal Unconventional Properties
- Short Hop Spin Jump (Can only be done by immediately pressing jump after a Spin Dash, Spin Charge, or Spin Dash Hop, hits the ground).
- Slow Spin Roll (Lyric Roll) and Slow Spin Jump

Q: Is there a God?
A:

Q: Why do some of you talk about steak and end posts with Haunter?
A: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/winning-steak-093

:093:
 
Last edited:

Masonomace

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
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Masonomace
#2
I like the motive, but I feel maybe the thread title could be named: "Sonic FAQ: "How do I Sonic?"

Because there'll be more funny questions that non-Sonic mains may ask. Telling them how to Sonic may be the best alternative to this revolutionary thread of just & gallantry. Caliburn would be proud of the chivalry bestowed upon the knowledge this thread would give.

tl;dr Sonic and the Black Knight was cool & nice thread. Keep it up Camal.
:088:
 

Camalange

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#3
I like the motive, but I feel maybe the thread title could be named: "Sonic FAQ: "How do I Sonic?"
Word, I'll probably just update it over time. Spinshot seems to be the question of the now so that's what I went with.
tl;dr Sonic and the Black Knight was cool & nice thread. Keep it up Camal.
:088:
ty

I was lurking other character boards and they just look so much more organized. Social threads, moveset breakdowns, FAQ's, etc. I figured I could at least start here but we need to get our **** together.

:093:
 
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#6
Sonic mains aren't organized at all. We should at least try though.
It doesn't help that the character himself is all over the place.

But, on-topic:

I know this is just a Work in Progress / placeholder; but, eventually, you're gonna need to find a way to explain the difference between Down-B and Side-B.

I wish it were as easy as copy & pasting Tenki's old thread from the BRAWL Sonic boards. That is, however, not a convenient option as a few mechanics have been introduced and some have vanished. AND just because it's similar to Brawl which has been around for six years won't stop other people (some of them with the intent to just troll /rile a reaction) who WILL ask the question, for genuine reasons or otherwise.
 

Camalange

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#8
That thought has definitely come across my mind. We're already amidst the process of dissecting the new down and side b's, so maybe it wouldn't hurt to change our vocabulary for this game as well. idk how necessary it is but if there's a way to make it less confusing, we should try.

EDIT: Updated with a few more questions. I'd like to eventually get to a more complete Down and Side B analysis, which should also be more heavily explained in a moveset analysis thread.

:093:
 
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Dashum

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#9
What are spinshot's applications? The same as brawl? (recovery, covering ground, edge guarding etc)
 
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Camalange

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#10
I'd say the application is so far about the same. Gives you another recovery/movement option.

I used to use spinshot > bair a lot though so that's not as good of an option now thanks to the extra bair lag.

:093:
 

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#12
It's genuinely soul crushing whenever I get punished for bairing on shield.

It's also taking some time to stop myself from SHFF bair... Oh god it's so unsafe now.

:093:
 

Gregory2590

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#15
I'd prefer a Down and Side B analysis asap. Their "new" mechanics still trip me up since they're somewhat different from Brawl.
 

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#16
How do you punish Sonics Up B? It seems like he can just spam it non stop and float around avoiding me or even using it aggressively.
 

Seagull Joe

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#18
I main :sonic:. Hi guys! I intend to be the best one this go around. Also have an alt for other :sonic:'s LOL. Enjoy~

I'll be on Xanadu's stream tomorrow for Smash 4 3DS. Tune in pl0x.

:018:
 

Camalange

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#19
Are we going to have a different thread for tournament results and match up information?
It would be nice if we had those. A third thread for a video archive would also help.
Not it. :applejack:
Agreed. Priorities should be in a proper moveset analysis thread and other types of archival threads.
I'd prefer a Down and Side B analysis asap. Their "new" mechanics still trip me up since they're somewhat different from Brawl.
Yes, a thorough breakdown is necessary. I feel this will have to be a communal motion though, as we have to agree on terminology and be able to properly discuss his changed properties.
How do you punish Sonics Up B? It seems like he can just spam it non stop and float around avoiding me or even using it aggressively.
Camp his landing spot. Dair is also really easy to punish if they go for it. Sonic doesn't really have a lot of safe moves to help him land after a spring.

:093:
 

Camalange

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#21
@ Camalange Camalange : Does UpB still get vincy frames? Usmash? :applejack:
I'll look into invincibility, but right now I want to say that I don't think they do anymore. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

I'd like to motion everyone to the main post again as I have vomited information about Side-B and Down-B. I wanted to take initiative in finally ironing this out for the better of the community. All help and corrections would be greatly appreciated.

:093:
 
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Espy Rose

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#22
For UpB you just gotta see if he blinks anymore. If not, it's probably gone.

Just have Sonic try and usmash through some attacks. Falco laser, diddy banana, marth's sword, and mario's fist seem like good candidates.

If it's like Brawl, Sonic's usmash would go through the laser and banana (might lose to banana if the timing is off), clank with Marth sword, and beat Mario's fist. :applejack:
 

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#23
Sonic's Up-B still has invincibility on start-up. Tested it by going through Bob-omb explosions on a platform above me on BF. Also just tested it with set Motion-Sensor Bombs.

Couldn't Usmash through either of them, but I currently don't have the time to investigate other points of the duration of Usmash for possible invincibility.

:093:
 
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Espy Rose

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#24
Well, it wouldn't work if you hit the bombs with it. Usmash only had invincy frames during the portion where he jumps off the ground, up to where the first hitbox during the spin took place. :applejack:
 

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#25
Well, it wouldn't work if you hit the bombs with it. Usmash only had invincy frames during the portion where he jumps off the ground, up to where the first hitbox during the spin took place. :applejack:
I know, I just don't have a good way to test right now :x It was worth a (spin)shot.

:093:
 
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#26
Usmash does indeed still retain its invincibility frames.

I found this out in a Sonic ditto, of all things. I thought I was done for when I Homing Attacked the enemy Sonic into his charging Usmash. Turns out, it was a good thing I was facing the opposite way; otherwise, I would've just done the 45 degree angle dive right into him.
 

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#27
Good to know! Thanks, Kinzer. Up-B and Usmash are good to go.

Also, I did more testing and you can now spinshot from a fully charged Side-B. Cool! Also, the Side-B jump (not the hop, the new jump) can't be canceled if you don't land, but once you do, it does retain your double jump. Weird.

:093:
 

Espy Rose

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#28
Good to know! Thanks, Kinzer. Up-B and Usmash are good to go.

Also, I did more testing and you can now spinshot from a fully charged Side-B. Cool! Also, the Side-B jump (not the hop, the new jump) can't be canceled if you don't land, but once you do, it does retain your double jump. Weird.

:093:
But you were able to spinshot from full sideB in Brawl too.. :applejack:
 

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#29
But you were able to spinshot from full sideB in Brawl too.. :applejack:
Wow, you're so right.

This is what happens when I retire from a game too long. Things just become instinctual, so I always thought that was the only way it was done. That's how I remember it being taught and I've never seen or saw anyone demonstrate it out of a fully charged Side-B.

More importantly though, I'd love feedback on my Side-B and Down-B breakdown. Could really use the communal Sonic input on my analysis and naming.

:093:
 
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#30
Figured I'd redirect this inquiry since I'm that type of guy who tends to forget threads exist outside of alerts and notifications.

Also, Camal, I'll look at your write-up when I have free time.

Anyone know the input for this? Can you used the R button for it or not? Is it >a^R
Idk HALP.
 

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#31
Thanks, I look forward to it.

As for DACUS, I've only heard it being done with a GC mod so... Haven't researched it beyond that. Also, the amount you can customize your controls on 3DS is surprisingly limited so I wonder if there's even a solid work around to make it possible.

:093:
 
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#32
Since I don't see any matchup chart, I'm not sure where I should ask this but just in case: does Sonic have any good moves to bypass Mega Man's projectiles (particularly his Metal Blades and his Mega Buster Jab)? I just ran into trouble with a Mega Man user on For Glory and I dunno how to counter him.

Also, Can I do anything to people who recover low on the ledges?
 

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#35
Since I don't see any matchup chart, I'm not sure where I should ask this but just in case: does Sonic have any good moves to bypass Mega Man's projectiles (particularly his Metal Blades and his Mega Buster Jab)? I just ran into trouble with a Mega Man user on For Glory and I dunno how to counter him.
I haven't tested too much against Mega Man, but his projectiles are generally pretty slow and easy enough to either catch or shield and punish. Also curious to see how many of them getting eaten by spindashes.
Also, Can I do anything to people who recover low on the ledges?
Drop springs on them.
Also perhaps go for Dair spike.

:093:
 
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#36
I haven't tested too much against Mega Man, but his projectiles are generally pretty slow and easy enough to either catch or shield and punish. Also curious to see how many of them getting eaten by spindashes.

Drop springs on them.
Also perhaps go for Dair spike.

:093:
I tried spindashing into him, but his Mega Buster (aka his lemons) Jab, Ftilt, and Nair just stop me dead in my tracks right after the 2nd or 3rd shots.
 

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#38
Did this thread always have tje side b and down b analysis, I swear I never saw it till I posted up my thread
I just updated the title a couple minutes ago to bring more attention to it as Spinshot queries seem to be slowing down.

I've also been updating the thread with information about it in the past week, but when it was first made I started small. I also shared the findings here: http://smashboards.com/threads/his-...d-updated-9-14-14.366545/page-8#post-17733604

:093:
 
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Rags

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#40
Does anyone know how I can cancel my down B early? I noticed that sometimes I'll stop my roll early and I think it could be used pretty nice for setups. How do I control when I stop my downB?
 
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