Sonic got buffed in the DHD matchup

[crashbfan]

• Homing Attack no longer targets objects like Duck Hunt's explosive can or Luma

pack it up. a 9-1 matchup just lost something that actually gave DHD something to work with.

on the topic of sonic, who should we switch to in able to beat him?

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

Aside from ditto-ing ourselves, there's , whose (shorthop) Side B Jump Cancels can be a makeshift Spin Dash, allowing him to punish any openings he's in position to ram into for good damage, and at around 100-ish, he can even KO off of Side B JCs w/ Up B --> A (Hammer). Throw in 1 UAir before going to Up B if you're going to try it at 75-ish%. Mechakoopas and DTilt can also mess with him when he's stuck Spin Dashing. Jr's numerous disjoints also let him challenge many of Sonic's moves, especially his aerials. Jr's also heavier than both DH & Sonic, which lets him stick around longer than DH, and Jr's recovery is definitely better than DH's, especially if Side B JCs are used, allowing him to stand a better chance at surviving Sonic's GDLK edgeguards (SPRING!) than some other characters.

There's also , , , and other high-speed high tiers if you feel like "selling out" and handling the flak you'll get for doing so.

 

[crashbfan]

Aside from ditto-ing ourselves, there's , whose (shorthop) Side B Jump Cancels can be a makeshift Spin Dash, allowing him to punish any openings he's in position to ram into for good damage, and at around 100-ish, he can even KO off of Side B JCs w/ Up B --> A (Hammer). Throw in 1 UAir before going to Up B if you're going to try it at 75-ish%. Mechakoopas and DTilt can also mess with him when he's stuck Spin Dashing. Jr's numerous disjoints also let him challenge many of Sonic's moves, especially his aerials. Jr's also heavier than both DH & Sonic, which lets him stick around longer than DH, and Jr's recovery is definitely better than DH's, especially if Side B JCs are used, allowing him to stand a better chance at surviving Sonic's GDLK edgeguards (SPRING!) than some other characters.

There's also , , , and other high-speed high tiers if you feel like "selling out" and handling the flak you'll get for doing so.

anyone that plays sonic deserves whats coming to em ( except falcon, I have too much respect to stoop to that level. )

 

[Arcadenik]

My god... it's like the developers want DHD to suck...

 

[outfoxd]

Wario, apparently.

 

[ItsMeBrandon]

I'm not a Duck Hunt main, but I just came here out of curiosity, so I apologize if I say anything dumb.

Whoa, is the Sonic matchup really that bad for you guys? I guess DHD is generally kind of campy given their moveset, and Sonic being fast doesn't help in that case, but is it really near-unwinnable?
I don't know if it helps, but Sonic got a number of nerfs as well, the last time I checked. It seems to me that he got hit harder than most others in this patch.

Spoiler: Sonic 1.0.6 nerfs

If there are two of these Spoilers, check the bottom one. Something goofed, I guess.

Spoiler: Sonic 1.0.6 nerfs

• 
  
  
  • Damage nerfs:
    • SDR (charged): 10% → 7%
    • SDJ/VSDJ/ISDJ: 6% → 3%
    • ASDR: 11% → 7%
    • SCR (occasional charged hit): 3% → 2%
    • VSCJ: 6% → 3%
    • Almost instant SCJ's damage is still 6%. Apparently, a low velocity SCJ becomes a VSDJ for some unknown reason;
  • Knockback nerfs:
    • Bthrow;
    • Utilt2 (lol);
    • Dair spike;
  • ASDR and ASC are now single hit moves;
  • BSD no longer has invincibility frames; (no longer avoids trip tree, needles, etc.)

Spoiler: Sonic terminology

SDR.....Spin Dash Roll
SDJ.....Spin Dash Jump
VSDJ....Vertical Spin Dash Jump (done in place)
ISDJ....Instant Spin Dash Jump (after executing Spin Dash while running)
ASDR....Aerial Spin Dash Roll (Spin Dash, just airborne)
SCR.....Spin Charge Roll
VSCJ....Vertical Spin Charge Jump
SCJ.....Spin Charge Jump (same as VSCJ, I think?)
ASC.....Aerial Spin Charge (Down-B in mid-air)
BSD.....(something to do with the spring, I think? Not entirely sure...)

So I'm just curious, but does that one thing really make Sonic worse overall, even with his nerfs?

 

[Zegend]

Spoiler: Sonic terminology

SDR.....Spin Dash Roll
SDJ.....Spin Dash Jump
VSDJ....Vertical Spin Dash Jump (done in place)
ISDJ....Instant Spin Dash Jump (after executing Spin Dash while running)
ASDR....Aerial Spin Dash Roll (Spin Dash, just airborne)
SCR.....Spin Charge Roll
VSCJ....Vertical Spin Charge Jump
SCJ.....Spin Charge Jump (same as VSCJ, I think?)
ASC.....Aerial Spin Charge (Down-B in mid-air)
BSD.....(something to do with the spring, I think? Not entirely sure...)

what a mess

 

[Arcadenik]

I'm not a Duck Hunt main, but I just came here out of curiosity, so I apologize if I say anything dumb.

Whoa, is the Sonic matchup really that bad for you guys? I guess DHD is generally kind of campy given their moveset, and Sonic being fast doesn't help in that case, but is it really near-unwinnable?
I don't know if it helps, but Sonic got a number of nerfs as well, the last time I checked. It seems to me that he got hit harder than most others in this patch.

Near unwinnable? Well, it feels like it.

 

[Sean²]

I'm not a Duck Hunt main, but I just came here out of curiosity, so I apologize if I say anything dumb.

Whoa, is the Sonic matchup really that bad for you guys? I guess DHD is generally kind of campy given their moveset, and Sonic being fast doesn't help in that case, but is it really near-unwinnable?
I don't know if it helps, but Sonic got a number of nerfs as well, the last time I checked. It seems to me that he got hit harder than most others in this patch.

So I'm just curious, but does that one thing really make Sonic worse overall, even with his nerfs?

Sonic's spindash (their favorite move to use) just plows through all of DH's projectiles.

 

[DunnoBro]

Yes, it's nearly unwinnable because while DHD barely has the tools to zone out sonic (if he's playing absolutely perfectly) he still can't kill him unless the sonic makes an absurd mistake, and sonic can punish pretty much every failed kill attempt with big damage or kills of his own.

See the MVD vs 6wx apex match for reference, MVD got a huge lead, but ended up getting 2 stocked because he simply can't kill 6wx. The reason is DHD needs either to force an approach, or go in himself to get a kill. But the approaches sonic does aren't ones dhd can kill off of, and you can't camp sonic hard at all because he can just wait and spindash through all your stuff if you commit too heavily to stage control.

If customs are on, it isn't a big deal. Zigzag lets us both camp and kill him, but default is simply awful. Honestly, every DHD should have a sheik just for that matchup. (Also sheik is good on stages DHD isn't, and dhd has good matchups against floaties like jiggly, kirby, etc. Who sheik struggles with. Mario still sucks though)

 

[outfoxd]

Assuming I put in the time will a Wario against Sonic suffice? I heard he had a decent MU and I don't want to work on a Sheik.

 

[DunnoBro]

Wario probably works for that MU, but few others.

 

[lilinuyasha]

I actually second Pac-man. His trampoline setups do fantastic against the spin dash, and I managed to beat one of my other really good friends with him when i never could with my DH. Plus, the projectiles can seem similar enough to DH to be effective.

 

[Perris6]

Pocketing a Wario myself for the matchup, but Duck Hunt vs Sonic is THE hardest mu for DH. Everyone else matches up well

 

[TheWorstMuppet]

Dedede is my secondary, which is probably not a character against Sonic, but I don't really want to pick up Sheik just for one match-up...

Brood showed me that it's not hopeless, I just gotta work on movement more.

 

[DunnoBro]

Sheik is also better against falcon, fox, rosalina... And on the duck hunt and delfino stage for most matchups.

Also broods most recent loss was to sonic...

 

[TheWorstMuppet]

Ah, Dangit. I had no idea. That was my TRUMP card...

(rats)

-
I just find Sheik kinda dull to play as. Probably due to the plethora of Sheiks in my scene.

 

[Joshua Flynn]

My god... it's like the developers want DHD to suck...

Given the additional nerfs from 1.1.0, that seems to be the case.

Probably because they're all too busy playing Shulk (the only guy who can cover one third of an omega stage in a single hit).