Sonic Frame Data Thread-Gifs Coming Soon!

[Nguz95]

Hello guys and girls, here is the frame data for Sonic in 3.0.

Terms:
Animation: This number gives you the total number of frames a move takes to complete. There are 60 frames in one second.
Hitbox Duration: This will list the starting and ending frames of the main hitboxes in a move.
IASA Frame: This is the frame at which you can cancel the animation into a different action.
Landing Lag: For aerials. This is the lag you experience when you hit the ground before the animation finishes.
L-canceled: For aerials. This is the lag you experience when you L-cancel the landing lag.

Note: This will be cleaned up in the near future. However, for the moment it is a little messy.
Moves
Jab 1:

Spoiler

Hitbox Duration: 3-4
Animation: 24
IASA Frame: 14
Links into Jab 2: 7

Jab 2:

Spoiler

Hitbox Duration: 2-3
Animation: 23
IASA Frame: 14
Links into Jab 3: 6

Jab 3:

Spoiler

Hitbox Duration: 4-6
Animation: 39
IASA Frame: 30

Dash Attack:

Spoiler

Hitbox Duration: 2-22
Animation: 61
IASA Frame: 41

Ftilt:

Spoiler

Hitbox Duration: 7-11
Animation: 43
IASA Frame: 31

Dtilt:

Spoiler

Hitbox Duration: 7-11
Animation: 40
IASA Frame: 28

Utilt:

Spoiler

Hitbox Duration: 6-10
Animation: 36
IASA Frame: 34

Fsmash:

Spoiler

Hitbox Duration: 19-25
Animation: 48
IASA Frame: 31

Dsmash:

Spoiler

Startup: 13
Hitbox Duration: 14-21, 26-32
Animation: 66
IASA Frame: 51

Usmash:

Spoiler

Hitbox Duration: 19, 21-36
Animation: 66
IASA Frame: None

Nair:

Spoiler

Hitbox Duration: 3-38
Landing Lag: 15
L-canceled: 7
IASA Frame: 44

Fair:

Spoiler

Hitbox Duration: 8-13
Landing Lag: 22
L-canceled: 11
IASA Frame: 37

Bair:

Spoiler

Hitbox Duration: 13-21
Landing Lag: 18
L-canceled: 9
IASA Frame: 33

Dair:

Spoiler

Hitbox Duration: 9-24
Landing Lag: 26
L-canceled: 13
IASA Frame: 36

Uair:

Spoiler

Startup: 4
Hitbox Duration: 5-7, 9-17
Landing Lag: 21
L-canceled: 11
IASA Frame: None

Neutral Special:

Spoiler

Startup: 6
Hitbox Duration: Constant
Cooldown: If miss: 30, if hit, 15

Side Special:

Spoiler

Startup: 6
Hitbox Duration: Constant
Cooldown:

Side Special Attack:

Spoiler

Hitbox Duration: 6-25
Animation: 61
IASA Frame: None

Down Special Start:

Spoiler

Startup: 6
Hitbox Duration: Constant
Animation: 11

Down Special Hold:

Spoiler

Hitbox Duration: Constant
Duration: 60

Up Special:

Spoiler

Startup: 0
Hitbox Duration: None

Standing Grab:

Spoiler

Grab-box Duration: 6-8
Animation: 30
IASA Frames: None

Dash Grab:

Spoiler

Grab-box Duration: 9-11
Animation: 39
IASA Frames: None

Pivot Grab:

Spoiler

Grab-box Duration: 9-11
Animation: 35
IASA Frames: None

Spot Dodge

Spoiler

Intangible:
IASA:

Forward Roll

Spoiler

Intangible: 4-19
IASA: 32

Backwards Roll

Spoiler

Intangible: 4-19
IASA: 32

 

[GabPR]

Thank you so much for the data, really appreciate it

 

[MonkUnit]

The landing lag values in PSA/BrawlBox are incorrect compared to in-game, btw. In order to get the correct landing lag, you need to use Frame Advance or ask a PMBR member to get the info for you. Here are the correct landing lag values, Un-L-Canceled vs L-Canceled:
nair 15 / 7
fair 22 / 11
bair 18 / 9
uair 21 / 11
dair 26 / 13

Also, when doing the hitbox gifs, make sure to check the Attributes tab to see what Sonic's Size attribute is. If it is any value other than 1, you need to change TopN's X,Y, and Z size to match that Size attribute starting frame 1 of each move you are getting images for. This will show you the correct hitbox sizes compared to his correct body size in game. Also, when getting grab images, you have to take a picture of the grabboxes by themselves with TopN at size 1,1,1, then get a picture of Sonic with the correct Size attribute for TopN and overlay the grabboxes on top of the Sonic grab images in another program. It's tedious but will give you accurate results for his grabs. If you have any questions or anything, just stop by the IRC because I don't like PMs and ping me and I'll try and help.

 

[Nguz95]

Thank you very much! I really appreciate your help. I just started making the gifs, and your tips made a big difference. I'll let you know when I need help, because I'm sure I'll make mistakes somewhere!

 

[cmart]

Fyi your cooldown values on neutral special are wrong (should look more like 30/15) . I 'm away from my stuff right now, but I can get the correct values for you later.

 

[Nguz95]

Fyi your cooldown values on neutral special are wrong (should look more like 30/15) . I 'm away from my stuff right now, but I can get the correct values for you later.

Thank you. I'll check them out. I wasn't sure what to put there. I don't think most of my special data is correct at the moment. I'll go through them again.

 

[cmart]

Sonic's specials twist through a lot of subactions and subroutines - and not all of them are even clearly delineated in the pac's actions. Feel free to hit me up for any pointers/questions in understanding them.

 

[MonkUnit]

Oh, I forgot to mention some info about the Total length of a move's animation. In BrawlBox, it adds an extra frame to the total. E.g., if BrawlBox says an animation is 43 frames long, the animation is actually 42 frames long in-game.

 

[Nguz95]

Whoah. That's unusual. I'll make the adjustments then.

 

[KiNGMONiR]

Dude this is amazing stuff, will be looking at these in depth soon. Can't wait for you gifs.

 

[MonkUnit]

When making the GIFs, make sure to turn the Hurtboxes on as well. I'd also suggest turning the Floor on and making GIFs of each move from a complete side-view so people can see how low a move can hit below the floor.

 

[Nguz95]

I've been thinking about making my gifs with the floor on. One thing that happens with the version of Brawl Box that I'm using (0.67b I think) is that some of the polygons disappear when I turn the floor on. The floor also flashes purple when I play attacks that use Sonic's spin polygon. This doesn't bother me too much, but I'd figure I'd ask around before I commit to doing it because it might bother other people.

Thank you for your suggestion about the hurtboxes. I'll be sure to do that.

 

[MonkUnit]

That issue may be an issue with the version of BrawlBox you are using. What version are you using? Have you tried using an earlier version of BrawlBox? Also, make sure to turn off Sonic's ball polygons during his non-ball moves unless the version of BrawlBox already does this (no idea if any or what version does this, so I could be wrong.).

 

[MonkUnit]

By the way, any move that has a Frame Speed Modifier will not be correctly displayed in BrawlBox. They will still be displayed at 60FPS instead of applying the correct FSMs to the moves. In order to get the correct images/data, you'd need to do them in game with Frame Advance. Here is a list of all of Sonic's moves that have FSMs. You will probably need help with these moves.

Spoiler

Dash Attack
U-Tilt
F-Smash Startup
U-Smash
D-Smash
N-Air
U-Air
Pummel
Neutral-B hit? SpecialNSpin subaction 1D0
Neutral-B hit? SpecialNSpin subaction 1D1
Neutral-B Blast attack? SpecialNCancel subaction 1D2
Side-B Startup
Side-B Endlag
Down-B Startup
Air Down-B Startup
Down-B Endlag
Air Down-B Endlag

In order to avoid a triple post, I wanted to remind you to make sure to take into account the startup of each smash attack. The startups are listed as AttackS4Start (fsmash startup), AttackHi4Start (usmash startup), and AttackLw4Start (dsmash startup). E.g., if BBox says AttackLw4Start is 9 frames long, it is actually 8 frames long in game. Then in AttackLw4, if PSA says something like Asynchronous timer: frames = 4, that means that the hitbox is created on frame 5. This would mean that the first hit frame of dsmash would be 13 (8 frames startup + 4 frames before hitbox is created).

Not sure if you know this already or if I covered this, but, keep in mind the differences between Asynchronous timers and Synchronous timers.

Asynchronous timers start counting from the beginning of the animation and are X + 1. E.g., Asynch timer: frames = 4 means the event happens on frame 5.

Synchronous timers are Y+1. E.,g., sync timer: frames = 3 means the event happens on frame 4. The reason why it is Y+1 and not X+1 is because if you have something like Asynch timer: frames = 8 -> hitboxes -> synch timer: frames = 2 -> terminate collisions(removes all hitboxes in current move), this would mean that the move hits on frames 9-10 and terminate on 11. This would be X+Y -> event happens on next frame, in this case it is X(asynch: 8) + Y(synch: 2) = 10 which means the synchronous timer's event happens on the next frame (frame 11).

Hopefully this all makes sense. I think this should cover most if not everything. If I remember anything else, I'll edit this post or something. I should really make a guide on doing hitbox stuff, lol.

 

[Nguz95]

Thank you for your help. I have covered the asynchronous and synchronous timer frames, but I did not remember to subtract the extra frame from the startup animation. I'll be sure to do that. Thank you so much for all your help!

 

[MonkUnit]

Once you have most if not all of his stuff done, when I have time I can probably go through his moves in frame advance in order to see if the hit frames and stuff are correct. Thank you so much for doing this. It takes a lot of work but helps a lot!

 

[Nguz95]

Once you have most if not all of his stuff done, when I have time I can probably go through his moves in frame advance in order to see if the hit frames and stuff are correct. Thank you so much for doing this. It takes a lot of work but helps a lot!

I have a quick question about your previous writeup about asynchronous and synchronous timer frames. The way I understood the relationship between the two was, if there was a series:
Asynchronous timer frames=8
Hitboxes
Synchronous timer frames=2
Terminate Collisions
The hitboxes would appear on frame 9, last until frame 10, and be terminated on frame 11. In your description you said that the same sequence would make the hitboxes appear on frae 0 and last until frame 10. I'm not sure if that was a typo, so I decided I would ask you about it.

 

[MonkUnit]

Oops, yeah that was a mistake. I meant to say hit 9-10 and terminate on 11.

 

[Nguz95]

Thank you!

 

[Bombitty]

Question: Will there be any information for rolls and spot dodge in the future as well?

I don't know if it's all that important, just curious. Thanks for putting in all your work to get something like this up. Can't wait to see it completed!

 

[Solharath]

If I had to guess, go see about the information that Brawl has on his rolls and spot dodges, 'cause I'm fairly certain those are unchanged. Although it often feels like his spot dodge is terribad. But usually that's just me being bad.

So am I really the only Sonic main heading to APEX? Oof, I lack a lot of matchup experience, but I'll still try my hardest. I was looking over the list and I am really not seeing anyone here... on there.

 

[MonkUnit]

Here you go. Spot Dodge has a Frame Speed Modifier on it so I have to get the info via Frame Advance. I'll edit this post with that info later today.

Spot Dodge
Intangible:
IASA:

Forward Roll
Intangible: 4-19
IASA: 32

Backwards Roll
Intangible: 4-19
IASA: 32

 

[Nguz95]

So am I really the only Sonic main heading to APEX? Oof, I lack a lot of matchup experience, but I'll still try my hardest. I was looking over the list and I am really not seeing anyone here... on there.

I'm pretty mediocre at this game, so Apex is probably not in the cards until next year. I'll keep on working though.

 

[DireDrop]

Do we know what the timings are for powershielding with Sonic? It feels tighter than some other characters, but that might just be me.

 

[MonkUnit]

Power Shielding is the same for every character. It's a 4 frame PS window. Frames 1-2 PS reflect and frames 1-4 PS normally.

 

[DireDrop]

Power Shielding is the same for every character. It's a 4 frame PS window. Frames 1-2 PS reflect and frames 1-4 PS normally.

Cool, thanks! How does the countdown for all of that work? Is it like, the first 2 frames of a full shield press will reflect, the next 2 frames will powershield, and anything after that just regular shields?

 

[MonkUnit]

It's when you're bring your shield out when you press the shield button. After frame 4 of bringing the shield out, the PS window ends and it just acts as a normal shield.

 

[DireDrop]

It's when you're bring your shield out when you press the shield button. After frame 4 of bringing the shield out, the PS window ends and it just acts as a normal shield.

Wait, so you don't need to full press? Light shield will work too?

 

[MonkUnit]

PS and PS reflect only work with full press.

 

[DireDrop]

Thank you for answering all my questions!

 

[DireDrop]

Hey, is there any chance I could get a pic/gif of Sonic's Dsmash with the hit and hurt boxes visible? I've been messing around with it as an edgeguard and I'm wondering if the hit box is disjointed at all. It seems like it is but I want to check.