Something that conserns both the Wii-U and 3DS versions of the game.

[Ragna22]

Ever since the Direct livestream I've noticed that some people aren't exactly happy with the release strategy so I'd like to elaborate on why I think that this is probably the best decision Sakurai has made. Aside from the usual stuff like more music, probably a much bigger single player mode than Smash Run, I think the Wii-U version is going to greatly benefit from the 3DS version releasing earlier.

Balance, the 3DS version would act as a demo in a similar way to how other fighting game companies release arcade builds of fighting games for people to get a good feel of the game, this is a good chance for pros to break it down and from the feedback that can come out of that, Sakurai would know what to balance for the Wii-U version in terms of characters and when the Wii-U version comes out the 3DS version would get a patch that balances all the characters to match the Wii-U's balance changes. Letting people play the 3DS version before the Wii-U version will also build more hype to play the Wii-U version, you get a really big taste of the game then a few months later that taste somehow managed to get better.

Pay now, pay again later. If the Wii-U and 3DS versions were to come out around the same time, those who want o get both will be spending $100 in the span of maybe a week or a month. The 3DS version coming out in the Summer and Wii-U in the Winter makes it easy on the wallet ESPECIALLY for those who want to get both versions but don't own a Wii-U yet.

So there ya go, balancing, hype and saving money are the best things that can come out of this release plan, the only thing that could really go wrong if these were Sakurai's intentions is that if he listens to the wrong people about balancing but he's got Namco Bandai helping him so balancing shouldn't be much of a problem.

 

[Tails_Glados_Puff]

Balance, the 3DS version would act as a demo in a similar way to how other fighting game companies release arcade builds of fighting games for people to get a good feel of the game, this is a good chance for pros to break it down and from the feedback that can come out of that, Sakurai would know what to balance for the Wii-U version in terms of characters and when the Wii-U version comes out the 3DS version would get a patch that balances all the characters to match the Wii-U's balance changes.

It's really sad that the 3ds, a perfectly good system, with a perfectly full game, can be thought of as a demo for the wii u version. It's sad that it's kind of true, but I think demo is stretching it.

 

[Ragna22]

The 3DS version is a special kind of demo, one that most players will probably keep even after the Wii-U version comes out cause...Smash on the go, that alone warrants a 3DS purchase. I only used the demo terminologo to keep things simple to understand ya know? I'm not willing to believe the 3DS version will ever become obsolete, that's one thing it has over the arcade versions of other fighting games that are used to test the games plus you can't play on an arcade cabinet everywhere you go.

 

[aBBYS]

I'm strongly opposed to call the 3DS version a "demo". We're talking a full game here with all the features you can expect from a Smash game - how is that a demo? Because there'll be less content (due to limitations in game card space) and lower resolution? Pah.

About the release strategy, I think its an excellent idea to release the 3DS version first, but I also think they simply aren't ready to release the Wii U version yet, while the 3DS version takes shorter time to develop, because it's not HD.

Remember that development/planning on these games started shortly after Kid Icarus Uprising was completed, which is spring 2012. They've more than two years to development. Compare that Kid Icarus Uprising, which used mostly NEW assets (compared to Smash which reuses a lot) which they first showed off at E3 2010 and released in Q1 2012. With other words, the 3DS version of Smash and Kid Icarus Uprising have both most probably been in development for just as long.

Besides, Sakurai would never release another game with poor content after the controversial release of Kirby Air Ride in 2003 (after the game was released, he openly critisized Nintendo for the game's development and shortly thereafter resigned from Nintendo).

He's the only developer in the world I've complete trust in - he never disappoints.

 

[SuperMii3D]

Oh boy.
Alright, lets face it, the 3DS will NOT have as much content as the Wii-U version, period. Its coming out too soon, and its already got its major mode, Smash Run. That being said, IT IS NOT A DEMO FOR THE WII-U VERSION. Its the Wii-U's younger brother, its other half if you will. You can have one, but its not really complete if you dont have both. The only thing the 3DS version will do is give away the character mechanics and maybe the online mode. I see nothing else of the Wii-U being affected.

 

[DaDavid]

There's absolutely not a chance in hell that Sakurai is going to release the 3DS as a balance test, and specifically because patches are a thing that exists I really doubt that one version coming out first has anything to do with balance. The games serve as their own "demo" in that regard.

The only real benefit to the staggered release is the fact that it'll encourage people to double dip instead of forcing many to make a choice and never look back.

 

[mimgrim]

A 40$ demo.

Ok then.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

A 40$ demo.

Ok then.

You mock, but the latest Metal Gear Solid game was essentially a $30 dollar demo, in essence. A two hour maximum 'prequel' of sorts, to get people used to how Metal Gear V will play.

Of course, I don't remotely believe that the same will be said of Smash 3DS. Just worth noting that some developers genuinely have the gall to do that.

 

[Gameboi834]

I think he meant demo in a more literal sense, a demonstration of what's to come and what to expect on the Wii U version. Which makes sense considering they should be the same in terms of gameplay.

 

[aBBYS]

You mock, but the latest Metal Gear Solid game was essentially a $30 dollar demo, in essence. A two hour maximum 'prequel' of sorts, to get people used to how Metal Gear V will play.

Of course, I don't remotely believe that the same will be said of Smash 3DS. Just worth noting that some developers genuinely have the gall to do that.

This is most likely because Ground Zeroes used their new Fox Engine, which I can imagine was not cheap to develop. That was like Capcom releasing The Mercenaries 3D on 3DS before Resident Evil Revelations - both used the same, super advanced engine. So I can understand why they need to "recover" some money for that.

This is not the case with Smash.

 

[mimgrim]

You mock, but the latest Metal Gear Solid game was essentially a $30 dollar demo, in essence. A two hour maximum 'prequel' of sorts, to get people used to how Metal Gear V will play.

A 30$ demo.

Ok then.

 

[KurashiDragon]

I dont believe the 3ds version is a demo. A demo implies an incomplete trial run and we have no idea what the 3DS version has. It could be superior to the Wii U version. At the very least we know that the 3DS version has Smash run to differentiate itself from the Wii U version. Both the Wii U and the 3DS have the same characters so it cant be a demo in that aspect. They're also on completely different systems and may have different physics because of this. Their likely not gonna be the same game in any case.

 

[ChikoLad]

The 3DS version is not a demo. It has been touted as it's own game.

Sakurai looks at the feedback for previous entries in the series for each new release. Him looking back at the 3DS version to improve the Wii U version (and later patch the 3DS version), is not any different. It's simply a developer looking at feedback from his past work (as the 3DS version will be this when the Wii U version comes out).

 

[EmbersToAshes]

This is most likely because Ground Zeroes used their new Fox Engine, which I can imagine was not cheap to develop. That was like Capcom releasing The Mercenaries 3D on 3DS before Resident Evil Revelations - both used the same, super advanced engine. So I can understand why they need to "recover" some money for that.

This is not the case with Smash.

Studios develop new engines all the time - that's never an excuse to sell what essentially acts as a demo for that sort of price.

Either way, there's no way Smash is going to be the same. The 3DS will be the bigger seller, aimed primarily at casuals and used by competitive players to practice on the go. The Wii U will be the one used for competitive play and have far more content. Same game, different markets.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

My opinion on this depends on what the Wii U version has instead of Smash Run.

 

[aBBYS]

Studios develop new engines all the time - that's never an excuse to sell what essentially acts as a demo for that sort of price.

Either way, there's no way Smash is going to be the same. The 3DS will be the bigger seller, aimed primarily at casuals and used by competitive players to practice on the go. The Wii U will be the one used for competitive play and have far more content. Same game, different markets.

Yes, but few are so advanced as the Fox Engine or Capcom's MT Framework Mobile - show me a 3DS game with the same graphical fidelity as Resident Evil Revelations - it's still a looker on the system.

By developing two games side to side like this, they can spread a bit of risk.

And I seriously doubt the 3DS version of Smash will sell more than the Wii U version - people tend to prefer fighting games on the big screen, especially a game like Smash where you gather to play together.

 

[Ragna22]

Guys let me give a little clarification, I understand where the demo misunderstanding is coming from, I apologize, I made this thread during a time that I was really tired. Yes I called the 3DS version a demo but it's only in the same sense as say Ultra Street Fighter 4's arcade version, it's still the full game with differences that it will have with the console version until it comes out in which case the arcade version is going to be patched to match the console version's balance changes, hell the console version's changes are probably already in the arcade version but even if that was the case, people playing the arcade version helped make those balance changes cause it's the earliest version that people are playing early.

In terms of Smash Bros, the 3DS version is the arcade equivalent but it's better because it has it's own set of content that won't carry over to the console version. We'll be playing the 3DS version meanwhile giving feedback about the game and that feedback is going to factor into balance changes for the Wii-U version that will probably go to the 3DS version as well via patch. The 3DS version is still it's own game with exclusive stages and game modes I acknowledge this but in terms of Sakurai's release plan I see it as a way to balance both versions.

 

[TJ-Works]

I understand what you mean when you refer to the 3DS version as a demo, and I agree, it will be a sweet taster of what's to come on the Wii U. However, considering the amount of stuff we know already about the 3DS, and the rest of the stuff we don't know, I don't think it will be regarded as a "demo" later on." That is, if people will still play the 3DS version once the Wii U version comes out.

I see it as 3 things:

1. A portable Smash game; the first Smash Brothers gamers can play on the go, and with other people outside of their homes.
2. An optimistic taste of what's to come on the Wii U version, considering the Wii U's greater technical capabilities, in graphics, performance, and amount of content.
3. Filler. I don't mean bad Anime filler. Just something to keep us waiting on while we wait for the Wii U version to be released.

Considering the Wii U's current reputation, I really hope that the Wii U Smash Brothers doesn't get overshadowed by the 3DS version. I want the Wii U to succeed, while still keep the 3DS healthy.

 

[Boomuki]

Using the 3ds version as a test to get feedback won't work for sakurai. as you know, sakurai spends veeery much time for balancing the game. the time span of the 2 games' releases is like 6 month, which isn't as much time as you think. he can't just wait like a month for the players to built an opinion on the game's balance, then acknowledging them and balance the game. you know the game still has to go gold, after debugging and general game testing they have to copy the game disks, make the game boxes and have to ship the games to the stores. no time for balance

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

Yes, but few are so advanced as the Fox Engine or Capcom's MT Framework Mobile - show me a 3DS game with the same graphical fidelity as Resident Evil Revelations - it's still a looker on the system.

By developing two games side to side like this, they can spread a bit of risk.

And I seriously doubt the 3DS version of Smash will sell more than the Wii U version - people tend to prefer fighting games on the big screen, especially a game like Smash where you gather to play together.

We gamers acknowledge that, but the casuals do not. Both versions will sell well no doubt, but the 3DS's larger install base means that it will definitely sell more copies than its console counterpart.

For instance, New Super Mario Bros. U didn't outsell New Super Mario Bros. 2 even if NSMBU was the must-have game at launch; Super Mario 3D World didn't outsell Super Mario 3D Land even if 3D World was the superior platformer; Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze didn't outsell Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D, which failed to outsell a 3D port; and the Wii U version of Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate certainly didn't outsell the 3DS version even if it had online play.

 

[aBBYS]

We gamers acknowledge that, but the casuals do not. Both versions will sell well no doubt, but the 3DS's larger install base means that it will definitely sell more copies than its console counterpart.

For instance, New Super Mario Bros. U didn't outsell New Super Mario Bros. 2 even if NSMBU was the must-have game at launch; Super Mario 3D World didn't outsell Super Mario 3D Land even if 3D World was the superior platformer; Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze didn't outsell Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D, which failed to outsell a 3D port; and the Wii U version of Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate certainly didn't outsell the 3DS version even if it had online play.

We'll see about that. All of your examples are games which can sell just as well on portables as on consoles. But Smash is a fighting game.

Fighting, horror and (realistic) racing games rarely sell good on portables, no matter the install base. We'll see if Smash becomes an exception.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

We'll see about that. All of your examples are games which can sell just as well on portables as on consoles. But Smash is a fighting game.

Fighting, horror and (realistic) racing games rarely sell good on portables, no matter the install base. We'll see if Smash becomes an exception.

It's not a question:

3DS: 42 million sold

Wii U: 7 million MAX, 5 million by last years figures.

If you seriously think the Wii U version is going to outsell the 3DS then it beggars belief.

Put it this way - if 10% of the 3DS MINIMUM install base buy the game (going by your presumption that the 3DS won't sell so many because it's a fighting game), that's 4.2million copies shifted. If 50% of the Wii U's MAXIMUM install base buy the game, that's 3.5 million.

The Wii U doesn't have a chance at outselling the 3DS version.

 

[aBBYS]

It's not a question:

3DS: 42 million sold

Wii U: 7 million MAX, 5 million by last years figures.

If you seriously think the Wii U version is going to outsell the 3DS then it beggars belief.

Some types of games just don't sell on portables. GTA Chinatown Wars, despite being a well made game, did not do very good on the DS which at the time had far more than 50 million users. FIFA and other sports titles don't do well on portables either.

But I know it's very difficult to debate with you... :-P

 

[EmbersToAshes]

Some types of games just don't sell on portables. GTA Chinatown Wars, despite being a well made game, did not do very good on the DS which at the time had far more than 50 million users. FIFA and other sports titles don't do well on portables either.

But I know it's very difficult to debate with you... :-P

That's because the points you make have no foundation in truth or reality. As I said:

Put it this way - if 10% of the 3DS MINIMUM install base buy the game (going by your presumption that the 3DS won't sell so many because it's a fighting game), that's 4.2million copies shifted. If 50% of the Wii U's MAXIMUM install base buy the game, that's 3.5 million.

The Wii U doesn't have a chance at outselling the 3DS version.

 

[aBBYS]

That's because the points you make have no foundation in truth or reality. As I said:

Put it this way - if 10% of the 3DS MINIMUM install base buy the game (going by your presumption that the 3DS won't sell so many because it's a fighting game), that's 4.2million copies shifted. If 50% of the Wii U's MAXIMUM install base buy the game, that's 3.5 million.

The Wii U doesn't have a chance at outselling the 3DS version.

IF... but IF NOT? Chinatown Wars only did just above 1 million on the DS, despite the console having an installbase well over 50 million. So that's just around 2 % of the potential customers.

I already made my points based on actual sales of certain portable games. You started assuming things.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

IF... but IF NOT? Chinatown Wars only did just above 1 million on the DS, despite the console having an installbase well over 50 million. So that's just around 2 % of the potential customers.

I already made my points based on actual sales of certain portable games. You started assuming things.

No - I showed you the sheer scale with which the Wii U would have to beat the 3DS to come out on top sales wise.

Here's another one for you:

Street Fighter 3DS sold 1.1 million. That's roughly, what, 2.5%? I'll ignore that this was released at a time when the console had fewer purchases - if I were to include that then the percentage would be higher, therefore suggesting that were it be released now the sales would have been higher in trend.

Anyway, let's say the Wii U audience buy 5, 6 times as many copies of the game? Let's call it six. That puts the Wii U at just slightly over 1 million. It still loses. And that's presuming worst case scenario for the 3DS - in reality, with the promotion this is getting, we're more likely to see 2, maybe 3 million sold.

Take into account that the Wii U's best selling (non-original bundle) title is Super Mario 3D World at 1.9 million. If even 5% of the players but the game for the 3DS, that's the Wii U's best seller beaten. And that's really hinging on the hope that it actually sells that many in the face of the 3DS.

I love my Wii U and I hope it doesn't sell too poorly, but there's no way that it's gonna come close to the 3DS.

 

[Saito]

That argument really depends if the number of Wii U's sold stays the same.

I'm sure that the Wii U will be seeing a big increase in sales once Mario Karok 8 and Super Smash brothers come out.

Hylian warriors might cause people to pick it up, along with "X" since it looks like a game with a lot of promise.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

That argument really depends if the number of Wii U's sold stays the same.

I'm sure that the Wii U will be seeing a big increase in sales once Mario Karok 8 and Super Smash brothers come out.

Hylian warriors might cause people to pick it up, along with "X" since it looks like a game with a lot of promise.

Of course - though even if it doubled it's MAXIMUM sales to 14 million (somehow!) and sold the game to 50% of it's audience, the 3DS would only need to sell to 16% of it's install base to outsell it. And that's of course presuming the 3DS hasn't and doesn't sell another console since 2013's stats were provided. It's just insurmountable.

 

[Saito]

Of course - though even if it doubled it's sales to 14 million (somehow!) and sold the game to 50% of it's audience, the 3DS would only need to sell to 16% of it's install base to outsell it. And that's of course presuming the 3DS hasn't and doesn't sell another console since 2013's stats were provided. It's just insurmountable.

Yeah it's very unlikely since 3ds sales will also go up when smash brothers comes out.

I'm going to be fully optimistic and say that I think the Wii U's sales will somehow quadruple from where we stand when smash brothers is released.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

Yeah it's very unlikely since 3ds sales will also go up when smash brothers comes out.

I'm going to be fully optimistic and say that I think the Wii U's sales will somehow quadruple from where we stand when smash brothers is released.

You best bank on Microsoft and Sony both going inexplicably bankrupt tomorrow then!

 

[aBBYS]

Of course - though even if it doubled it's MAXIMUM sales to 14 million (somehow!) and sold the game to 50% of it's audience, the 3DS would only need to sell to 16% of it's install base to outsell it. And that's of course presuming the 3DS hasn't and doesn't sell another console since 2013's stats were provided. It's just insurmountable.

Why do you think Rockstar never made GTA on the Wii? No, it was not because of a lack of power, as some of the most popular GTA games exists on Ps2. It was because they knew that even though Wii had sold a lot more consoles than 360 and Ps3, there was no audience for GTA on Wii.

You're blindly staring at install base without looking at HOW the install base looks. Just as a loose example, you can sell 100 million consoles and still certain kinds of games won't sell on that console.

 

[Saito]

You best bank on Microsoft and Sony both going inexplicably bankrupt tomorrow then!

You underestimate the power of super smash brothers; friend.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

Why do you think Rockstar never made GTA on the Wii? No, it was not because of a lack of power, as some of the most popular GTA games exists on Ps2. It was because they knew that even though Wii had sold a lot more consoles than 360 and Ps3, there was no audience for GTA on Wii.

You're blindly staring at install base without looking at HOW the install base looks. Just as a loose example, you can sell 100 million consoles and still certain kinds of games won't sell on that console.

I'm looking at the reality of things, mate. All of your arguments hinge entirely on what you believe, and when somebody presents facts and figures that show you're either wrong or insurmountably hopeful you either resort to telling the person that you know what you're talking about more or that they're looking at the wrong thing. You did very much the same when I showed you medical sources backing up the presence of specific gene structures in homosexuals - you continued with a half-cocked argument that ignored the proof provided (or, more humorously, you argued that proof is impossible) before giving up.

Mario Kart and Smash Bros are both console sellers. When Mario transitioned to 3DS, it took off, though portables are not the home to racing games. The last Mario Kart on 3DS sold almost 10 million. 2 years ago. You really believe Smash Bros isn't going to do the same thing considering the sheer amount of promotion it is receiving, and the fact it'll be a focal point of E3? If so, that's extremely naive and unrepresentative of top title sales on the 3DS. I prefer the Wii U version - it doesn't mean I'm blind to the truth of the matter - that the Wii U is going to need divine intervention to outsell the 3DS.

I'd also like to add that you're wrong about Street Fighter - Capcom themselves list 1.1 million units sold. I'm also interested as to how you can so confidently state why Rockstar didn't publish for the Wii - do you work there? Or are you making up points of view to suit your argument again?

 

[aBBYS]

I'm sorry, but I can't argue with you it seems. Where are your facts? You're just assuming a lot of things and call that "facts".

I'm also assuming and I'm just saying I THINK the Wii U version will sell better because certain kinds of games, like fighting games, don't do very well on portables. But you keep saying that you're right, that your view is the reality and that your opinions are facts.

It's people like you who fuels the stereotype image of British people. :-( I'm out of discussion with you, period.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I think the fact that the 3ds version has its own stages and game modes unique from the Wii U version means it's in no way a demo.

If it was just a downgraded carbon copy I could agree with you, but its not. It's a different beast.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

No, I'm providing you with statistics of the 3DS's best selling titles, a comparison between another genre atypical to portables and it's respective sales figures, and providing potential sales percentages heavily swayed in the Wii U's favour to show you just how unfeasible it is to believe that the Wii U will outsell it. The majority of that are facts and figures, set in stone. The hypothetical is there only to show the sheer rate at which the Wii U title would have to sell to feasibly best the 3DS.

Your parting shot is perhaps expected considering your perceived hatred for everything Western. I can only suggest you move to Russia, as you seem to harbor some adulation for Mr Putin and his regime.

 

[Wario Bros.]

I'm also against calling SSB for Nintendo 3DS a "demo" to SSB for Wii U. If it was a "demo", the Wii U version would have been nothing more than a carbon copy of the 3DS game with the exact same experience but with way more content and polish. It's clear the 3DS version wants to have a gaming experience unique to itself (one strategy Nintendo wants you to buy both).

Smash 4 clearly isn't like all those countless full price Street Fighter IV remakes or Cartoon Network: Punch Time Explosion (an "XL" version was made for Wii, PlayStation 3, & Xbox 360 which was a remake of the original Nintendo 3DS version but with crap ton of new content and with extra polishing).

 

[Overtaken]

In my opinion, Nintendo has pretty much given up on the WiiU. This release schedule is inevitably pressuring people who will only buy one version into getting the 3ds version. The one game that could salvage the WiiU, if nothing else could, would be Smash4. The WiiU version should be released first, which would have maximized new sales for the console. But it seems to me Nintendo would rather put all of their chips into the already independantly sucessful 3ds, and throw the 'U' under the bus.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

In my opinion, Nintendo has pretty much given up on the WiiU. This release schedule is inevitably pressuring people who will only buy one version into getting the 3ds version. The one game that could salvage the WiiU, if nothing else could, would be Smash4. The WiiU version should be released first, which would have maximized new sales for the console. But it seems to me Nintendo would rather put all of their chips into the already independantly sucessful 3ds, and throw the 'U' under the bus.

I'm becoming increasingly concerned that that may be the case. I truly hope it's not so - though we should have a pretty clear indication come E3.

 

[Overtaken]

Think of it this way. If the U version came out first, fans of the game that would ever consider buying the console just for smash would do so instead of waiting half a year for the less attractive 3ds version. Then, when the 3ds version would be released, the much less painful price of the 3ds would be more feasable for purchasing a second version of a game you already own. But the way they are doing it, good luck getting the broad, casual fan base to throw down 400 bucks for game they've already been playing for six months.