Something I remembered recently...

[Wobbles]

Been playing a bit of Melee lately and I recalled a trick Chu uses that I never see other ICs use.

Most ICs wavedash back and forth with a fairly predictable pattern (myself included) but Chu mixes in dashdances. This would not be anything new except that instead of stopping dashes with more wavedashes, he brakes using his shield.

This has multiple neat effects:

One, it alters your movement rhythm, making it harder for people to predict the timing of your dashes and wavedashes.

Two, you can light-shield trick people and land weird shield grabs at moments they don't expect.*

Three, you can roll or dodge into a de-sync from your dash-dances as well, giving you a bit more versatility.

Four, since it stops you immediately, it makes spacing your wavedashes easier.

Five, you can wavedash out of shield, so it has no negative effect on your normal movements.

Six, it's cool.

Play around with it, it's buckets of fun.

*Light shield tricking, for the people who don't know, is pretty simple. Instead of pressing your shield button all the way down, only press it lightly at first. Nana will light-shield along with Popo. Now push it in almost the entire way down, and Popo will bring up an almost completely heavy shield. Nana's shield, however, will remain light. If you practice, you can make this a very fast and fluid motion with barely any delay.

Because Nana's shield is light (and therefore bigger), aerial attacks will usually connect with it before they connect with your shield. This adds extra hit-stun time to the enemy's attack, and makes it harder for them to SHFFL properly. It works great against Ganon's f-air, for instance, because it has so much stun-time on shields that you can roll behind him and gain a huge positioning advantage.

Plus, the light-shield helps make sure Nana doesn't get shield-stabbed by anything, so that's an added bonus.

If you mix up light-shield tricking with dash-dances and wavedashes, you'll be cool like Chu. So do it.

 

[Jam Stunna]

I have a problem with choking on WDing. At a tournament on Saturday, I was fighting a Marth that grabbed Nana. My mind said, "WD => dsmash", but my fingers said "jump => dair". Pretty close, just gotta work that gosh-darn airdodge in their somewhere.

 

[Kyu Puff]

This sounds cool, I'll have to try it out.

I noticed that occasionally Chu moves around with a series of quick, shorter wavedashes, rather than the long waveshields that are more common. Possibly a spacing trick?

PS -- Wobbles, post more.

 

[Wobbles]

Any character that moves really fast has to be spaced against *before they move.* Predicting wavedashes against characters Luigi and ICs is incredibly important, just like calling dash dances and short hops is important against Fox, Falcon, and Falco. They have good horizontal speed on their short hops, which means you have to pay close attention to the distances they jump at. This helps you defeat their SHFFL game, actually.

This is going to sound weird, and it kind of is, but think about the sound the IC's wavedash makes. It's very loud, obnoxious, and unique. If you do it at a consistent rhythm, it's going to ingrain itself into your opponent's mind. If you do it at consistent distances, they will associate the sound with that distance. You can condition an enemy then throw off their spacing by mixing up the distance while keeping the same timing.

Also, Chu probably uses shorter wavedashes because they make spacing simpler. It also deceives the opponent into thinking you have a particular "range" when you really don't. Imagine that you think a player could only move between 3 and 5 spaces at a time in some imaginary board game.
They spent the whole game only moving between 3 and 5 spaces at a time, then suddenly, when you least expected it, they moved 7. The disorientation would mess with you a lot. I think this is how he can stand any chance against M2K's Marth, a matchup that should really be unwinnable given M2K's spacing.

Asking Chu would be kinda tough, however, as he doesn't talk about the game on a technical level. This is just a guess on my part.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

^^
Yhea learning to vary the distance of your wavedashes can help you alot (with all characters). If you learn to perfect WD consistently even falcon's wavedash can become really good. Oh, and as Ic's, you could prolly punish someone halfway across FD with a perfect wd+dsmash
Being able to do short wavedashes can be even more helpful, since you often want to move short distances quickly (and a normal ic wavedash might take you to far). With most chars I would usually just dash dance, but with ic's it can **** up nana

I've been practicing it alot lately. It's hard tho cuz this game is so sensitive... the slightest difference in the angle of the control stick can make a much bigger difference on screen.

This is a great thread btw. I love reading these posts, you learn alot about this game from it.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

I love Wobbles so much. Post more, plz. Your posts are always so informative

 

[Wobbles]

Mike: You make a good point about wanting to travel short distances but not mess up Nana's syncing. That's why using Chu's shield-brake tactic is so important, and why it's *very* important to have control over your wavedash.

Remember, your wavedash distance is affected by three things: slope, joystick angle, and air-dodge timing. A "perfect" wavedash has a 1/16th angle on the joystick and you almost don't even leave the ground. The button timing and the joystick angling in the middle of a match where you're trying to space and think and predict and react... it's **** tough. Spacing with the ICs is so hard, that's a big reason, I think, why Chu uses smaller wavedashes; they're easier to control and much less risky.

 

[RaynEX]

Spacing with the ICs is so hard, that's a big reason, I think, why Chu uses smaller wavedashes; they're easier to control and much less risky.

It makes alot of sense now that I think about it. This same idea can be applied to some of the other characters in the melee cast as well.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Does the timing off the airdodge make a big difference in terms of how long wavedash is? (I thought it was almost only the joystick angle)

 

[Wobbles]

It's not as important as the angle but it definitely has an effect. A "perfect" wavedash with the ICs will get you across a HUGE chunk of most levels in a single bound. On FoD you can definitely make it over halfway, probably around 3/4 of the stage in one wavedash. Messing up the timing will

A frame and angle perfect waveland with the ICs is absurd, by the way. I knew it was effective, but I really felt the point driven home when I was trying to perform a delightful technique that is aptly named "instant death."

ID is when you begin a match on FD with a waveland, grabbing the opponent while the screen still says "Go!" and immediately infiniting them. The timing on the waveland is difficult, and if you do a perfect one, you travel over half of FD's distance. I have never succeeded in doing this because of the timing and spacing of the waveland as well as the timing on the grab. I fear it may just be too difficult for me Not having easy access to Melee in my current situation, I can't really do anything to practice it. This is a pity.

If anybody else has ever succeeded or tried this, let me know. I want to believe.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

^^ I know what you're talking about, and there was a thread about wavelanding at the start of a match in the ganon boards. Apparently which controller slot you're controller is in matters and so does the stage, and it's not possible with all characters on all stages in all controller ports. The thread shouldn't be hard to find.
I can waveland to start the match with luigi as player 1 on FD, which isn't that hard. but the timing for doing it with IC's is probably harder

 

[Bnzaaa]

I think it's possible to waveland on Pokemon Stadium when you are in the 4th port. If you jump right away from the start, you will end up double jumping.

I'll try to test it out today and I'll get back to you guys.

 

[Kyu Puff]

ID is when you begin a match on FD with a waveland, grabbing the opponent while the screen still says "Go!" and immediately infiniting them. The timing on the waveland is difficult, and if you do a perfect one, you travel over half of FD's distance. I have never succeeded in doing this because of the timing and spacing of the waveland as well as the timing on the grab. I fear it may just be too difficult for me Not having easy access to Melee in my current situation, I can't really do anything to practice it. This is a pity.

If anybody else has ever succeeded or tried this, let me know. I want to believe.

I was actually meaning to make a thread about this. P1 = Slight Priority Advantage; P2 = Blue Shield (!); P3 = Don't Ever Use; P4 = ...

The last controller port allows you to waveland at the beginning of the match, or fastfall through a platform without ever landing on it. I don't think ID would work; the perfect waveland leaves Nana behind, and your opponent would probably break out. Maybe... techchasing/CGing them until Nana shows up, commence wobbling?

 

[Wobbles]

Kyu: Everytime I successfully wavelanded, Nana would roll upon landing, traveling the distance with me. I didn't see an issue with the de-sync since she seems to catch up.

Plus against most characters you get at least one d-throw chain, so it's all gravy ^_^

I didn't know it had to be controller 4 though. I learned something new about this game again. Badass.

 

[Kyu Puff]

At the beginning of the match, each player spawns in the order of the controller ports. 3 and 4 spawn last, closest to the 'Go!', and have time to jump or airdodge before landing.

The ID idea brings up some nice controller counterpicking. Wait to see if your opponent picks 1 or 2; if 1 pick 3, if 2 pick 4. On FD, wavegrab from your spawnpoint to infinite. They have some landing lag left at the beginning of the match, which probably leaves them less than 10 frames to interrupt (jab or shine could probably stop it).

 

[Wobbles]

Oh yeah, something else I don't know of anybody but Chu using: auto-canceled up-air.

After a short hop, if you u-air IMMEDIATELY (about 2-3 frames of leeway) and don't fast fall, you can land with zero lag. This is neat for defeating Falco(n)/Fox because it sets up well for grabs and more up-airs. When an opponent is platform camping you, it can also bait them into trying to punish you when you have no lag. It's neat, IMO.

 

[PB&J]

good thread i learned alot ..wobbles come to the next ga tournies..they are going to be big..i use the auto canceled up-air on falco alot..it ***** him..keep this thread open and wobbles come to ga

 

[Binx]

oh wow, I didn't know you could AC the uair, as far as the wavedash dash dancing shield thing, I've been copying chu on that forever, but I never thought about throwing in 'random' perfect wavedashes to throw people off, that makes a lot of sense especially getting inside Marth that way.

 

[Vts]

i remember that if your smart nana will do all the work. and that mixing up WDs really messes with people.

still working on my desync jumping ic block into wd grab

 

[Dogysamich]

hmm, interesting stuff.