Some general questions from an average falco rising the ranks

[jacob91]

Hi, I've been practicing using the 20xx training pack in my free time for the last month or so (mostly practicing advanced techs in training mode, have a list of over 200 technical maneuvers I've been working on my consistency with) and going to my local biweeklies twice a month to measure my progress and test myself. It's taken me a long time to figure out who to dedicate as my main, and, well, I've decided to stick to falco as I do better with him overall than anyone. I just have a few questions left that I'm looking for answers to.

- Is falco's lunge grab (dash attack canceled grab) ever preferable to his JC grab?
- Any tips to avoid marth's chaingrabs? Will double stick DI help much? Marth is definitely my worst matchup.
- Is learning to pivot fsmash consistently essential? I've been using the crouch to cancel the dash for running smashes.
- Who is the shortest character that ledge hop double laser can hit both lasers with while standing?
- Which matchups could benefit from dthrow jab reset?
- Is wavedashing/surf wavedashing as essential for falco's movement game as it is for characters with better wavedashes?
- How exactly does one wavedash out of shield, and when is it most effectively used?
- When should one nair out of shield instead of shine out of shield?

 

[MALVM MALVM]

-It's called a boost grab and yes, if you need to grab someone from slightly further away
-Don't get grabbed in the first place, di slightly behind him, try to shine out, and read this: http://smashboards.com/threads/detailled-chaingrab-information.323364/
-not that I know of, but it sounds like it could be a useful tool sometimes
-if you shoot them low enough I think you can hit everyone
-Fox can do some things to get out of it and his other throws combo better I think; idk about anyone else and it won't work against Europe lol
-idk what surf wavedashing is and yes because Falco's dd is kinda bad so it's good to include wd to get your initial dash back and stay mobile
-jump but don't input a direction on the control stick; I consider this essential tech along the lines of wavelanding on platforms after shine, you might want to make that 201 techs
-when it'll hit and shine won't or when you can get more position/damage/whatever off of it than shine
Good luck!

 

[Squidster]

-JC grab is pretty much always better

-Double stick DI doesn't really help because you can't SDI his grabs. Read this to better understand DI. http://smashboards.com/threads/a-gu...-teching-and-crouch-cancelling-updated.60218/
The only tip I have is to avoid getting grabbed. Once you get grabbed it's gonna hurt no matter what you do.

-Pivot Fsmash is ok but Falco's initial dash isn't great so pivots aren't that good on him, not essential at all imo. Do note that you can't crouch to use smash attacks out of the inital dash.

-You can ledge hop double laser anyone, even a crouching kirby. Learn to mixup the timing to get high / low lasers.

-Dthrow jab reset isn't really a thing. Good players will tech the Dthrow everytime and even if they don't, falco can't jab reset most of the time and it just makes em stand up. Note that vs fox, he just stands up after he gets Dthrown. This means he can't tech but he can act out immediately. Sometimes you can do tricky things with this but a good fox will just punish you right after the Dthrow.

-Wavedashing is really good and necessary. Do it out of shine, shield, waveland on platforms is essential for combos, etc. Practice wavedashing / wavelanding a lot.

-I use L to shield, R to wavedash. So I hold L, jump, push down / forward, hit R. You can totally it with just 1 trigger. Hold L, jump, let go of L, push down / forward, hit L again. Just get used to the timing, WD oos is very good.

-Shine oos is your best bet most of the time. Nair / Dair oos is quite a bit slower but is sometimes good if your opponent is spaced outside of range of shine.

 

[xman]

Hey guys I finally got the timing for shine OoS but I can't time it well against other people I play without rumble does rumble help a lot when it comes to that?

Edit: disregard this post I meant to post in another thread lol

 

[Oskurito]

- Is falco's lunge grab (dash attack canceled grab) ever preferable to his JC grab?
- Any tips to avoid marth's chaingrabs? Will double stick DI help much? Marth is definitely my worst matchup.
- Is learning to pivot fsmash consistently essential? I've been using the crouch to cancel the dash for running smashes.
- Who is the shortest character that ledge hop double laser can hit both lasers with while standing?
- Which matchups could benefit from dthrow jab reset?
- Is wavedashing/surf wavedashing as essential for falco's movement game as it is for characters with better wavedashes?
- How exactly does one wavedash out of shield, and when is it most effectively used?
- When should one nair out of shield instead of shine out of shield?

-No, JC grab is much better. Boost grab is better on fox, but is situational.
-Double stick DI doesn't help with chaingrabs, DIng backwards (towards his back) makes it a bit difficult for marth to continue, learn to DI, jump out and shine out of marth's CG, and in what %s you can do so. If you learn to combo and pressure him well then the match up is even or even a bit in your favor. If you've got the time, try to chain grab a lvl9 falco with marth with 20XX training pack, so you can see what he can do to escape (and how difficult it is to be perfect with marth).
-Pivot is not essential, but is a good tool to have if you can do it with good consistency.
-I don't know tbh, check m2k's bible? maybe G&W but I'm just guessing.
-Character's that can't tech your d-throw (most of them can, and those who can't, they're either fox or characters that you should whoop anyway). fthrow + tech chase (and maybe dash + SHL + a jab reset if they don't tech) is far superior in my experience because you can make the follow up much quicker than with a dthrow.
-It is very useful to move faster than with regular dash dancing and without having to laser, is a just another tool, but IMO is more useful than pivoting.
-I use the L button to do everything, so I just hold L then wavedash (X+airdodge towards the ground with the L button while holding the L button). Just hold w.e button you use to shield and then wavedash. Example: if you use L to shield and R to wavedash, just wavedash with R while holding L.
-Depends on the situation, mostly on your current position and the opponent's, dair and nair have bigger hit boxes than a shine, one needs to be very close to your shield to get hit by a shine but not as close to get hit by an aerial. Keep in mind that the shine has slightly more range on its back.

 

[MALVM MALVM]

DI all the way behind Marth doesn't stop the chaingrab. At low % there's technically no way to stop the chaingrab, but if you DI just very slightly behind Marth he's forced to perfect pivot grab, which makes it more likely that he'll screw up

 

[Oskurito]

DI all the way behind Marth doesn't stop the chaingrab. At low % there's technically no way to stop the chaingrab, but if you DI just very slightly behind Marth he's forced to perfect pivot grab, which makes it more likely that he'll screw up

Yeah, basically DIng back makes it harder for math to continue. I never said it was impossible just a bit more difficult for marth to continue, that'll depend on the player's skill. In general, you'll always want to screw up your opponent's combos with DI.

 

[MALVM MALVM]

Yeah but it has to be very slightly behind him to force him to pivot. I just wanted to clarify how far back to DI because all the way back doesn't help.

 

[Oskurito]

Yeah but it has to be very slightly behind him to force him to pivot. I just wanted to clarify how far back to DI because all the way back doesn't help.

Agreed.
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