Solo viable characters in PM

[Kulty]

Hi guys,

After I played PM at my college for so many hours, I had a blast. It's so MUCH FUN to play that I want to play this mod competitively (even if it's not a Smash game). I've been trying to find only one character that feels totally different from his original moveset from the main Smash games, because I want to also main characters that I mained in Melee (which are()). I plan to play them to practice my Melee skills as well. I've been trying them out and I have trouble deciding between . I have some questions:
1) Who are characters that can be considered solo viable as of PM v3.6?
2) Are these charactersconsidered to be solo viable or not? If yes, why? If not, why?
3) Which character bet. the 3 do have better options to compete against the overall cast and the high-tiers? In other words, who is the character that's close to the high tiers?

I appreciate if people could answer these questions since I'm brand new to Project M, since I've never played this mod before I started college.

 

[CORY]

Ganon is very not solo mainable. He has a bunch of evenish matches and a handful of terrible ones.

Pit, I have no idea. He seems like he should be solo viable, but I really don't know about matchups for him.

Sonic, I really want to say is solo mainable, since, in theory, he can exploit his raw speed to offset his bad range, but I can see strong neutrals on the other side giving him a hard time.

As for who is solo mainable, look into the tier list thread and most characters in the top tier are solo viable. (Off the top of my head, fox, wolf, diddy, Rob are typically put in top by a lot of people and they seem to have no real hard counter matchups).

 

[Kulty]

Ganon is very not solo mainable. He has a bunch of evenish matches and a handful of terrible ones.

Pit, I have no idea. He seems like he should be solo viable, but I really don't know about matchups for him.

Sonic, I really want to say is solo mainable, since, in theory, he can exploit his raw speed to offset his bad range, but I can see strong neutrals on the other side giving him a hard time.

As for who is solo mainable, look into the tier list thread and most characters in the top tier are solo viable. (Off the top of my head, fox, wolf, diddy, Rob are typically put in top by a lot of people and they seem to have no real hard counter matchups).

I checked the boards for Pit, specifically ''Is Pit amazing in 3.6?''. And they said that he was around the low levels of high-tier. As for Sonic, I believe he still has potential to be high-tier from what I heard. Also, I checked the tier list thread and I'm completely lost about who's top-tier and who's not. To make it simple, I'll put a list of all the characters that I'm interested in PM and tell me who's in the high and top-tiers: .

 

[CORY]

All IMO, wolf is probably the best option for solo main out of all of those.

Right behind would probably be ike, sonic, maybe pit.

Roy should theoretically still be strong, but I don't know how much his matchups changed going into 3.5.

Play ganon because he's fun or to steal someone's small stage counterpick.

 

[Kulty]

All IMO, wolf is probably the best option for solo main out of all of those.

Right behind would probably be ike, sonic, maybe pit.

Roy should theoretically still be strong, but I don't know how much his matchups changed going into 3.5.

Play ganon because he's fun or to steal someone's small stage counterpick.

Yeah. Thanks for your help. People in the tier list thread said that the game is pretty much balanced and that the gap bet. best character and 25th is not that huge right? If I would , I would have to back me up, but I want to focus only on the PM character, so that's why I asked who are some good examples of solo viable characters.

 

[Jamble]

Personally, I think Roy has potential to be one of the better solo mains too TBEH. He lacks very many one-sided matchups in his favor or against him. I can't think of a character that really is just awful to deal with or one that's just a complete cakewalk as Roy. On the other hand, he's only a sort-of-secondary to me, a fairly new player.

 

[Kulty]

I'm just scared that Roy messes up my Marth play, since they do feel pretty similar between each other even if Roy is a semi-clone of Marth.

 

[GHNeko]

While not all players can dual main clones because of that specific concern you've stated, I think that Roy is not in that category.

They both play in very distinct ways due to the nature of their own mechanics and Roy's unique aspects have been magnified from Melee to give him a stronger sense of self. I think he's gone past the point of Luigification and stands out on his own as a character.

As such, I dont think you really need to worry about Roy messing up your Marth play. You shouldnt be playing them similarly anyways, as playing one like the other is going to get you bopped.

 

[Kulty]

While not all players can dual main clones because of that specific concern you've stated, I think that Roy is not in that category.

They both play in very distinct ways due to the nature of their own mechanics and Roy's unique aspects have been magnified from Melee to give him a stronger sense of self. I think he's gone past the point of Luigification and stands out on his own as a character.

As such, I dont think you really need to worry about Roy messing up your Marth play. You shouldnt be playing them similarly anyways, as playing one like the other is going to get you bopped.

Yeah. I just know that Roy needs to play aggressively. However, what I'm scared about Roy is that he's considered to be glass-canon, meaning light and easy to combo. I'm kinda scared for that.

 

[Jamble]

Yes, but every character is going to have survivability issues on some level. Samus is even heavier than Ganon, but despite that thanks to her slower air speed and general floatiness, she's easily juggled and killed off the top. Ganon has a subpar and incredibly predictable recovery, making him super easy to edgeguard. Falco's super light and his vertical recovery is downright nonexistant (yet he's an incredibly strong character with an amazing neutral). That's part of the design of the game, every character has weaknesses like that to exploit.

I will say in defense of Roy that while he's a glass cannon, he has tools to avoid getting combo'd like that. Roy threatens incredibly large areas of the stage and his disjoint can help you poke at your opponent fairly safely. He has a fast and great ranged ftilt too. And while he's easy to combo, the flip side is that it's super easy for him to combo you. It's a very thrilling albeit kind of scary combination.

If that sort of drawback doesn't fit your playstyle then yeah, Roy may not be a great fit. But I'm just saying don't count a character out because they have survivability flaws; every one in the roster has em.

 

[Kulty]

Well, that's the thing. I'm very specific when it comes to choosing a main character. However, when I choose a secondary, that's a different story. When it comes to secondaries, I don't mind if the character has glaring flaws such as being a glass canon. For example, I picked Falco as my secondary in Melee. Even though he's a glass-canon, I don't mind it, because he has excellent tools in neutral to counter most of the cast as long as you don't mess up your play. Also, since I'm not really a technical player, I don't mind playing these types of characters when we talk about secondaries as long as they're fun and rewarding.

However, as the case of PM, I'm only choosing one main character, because I already have three characters with me which are my mains in Melee. So yeah, I'm really specific when choosing a main. But that's just me.

 

[Jamble]

Precisely, which kinda goes back to the general thing being it's best to main somebody you love. I do better with Samus against her worse matchups than I do with characters who technically match up better just because I enjoy Samus more. There's a much smaller gap in PM when it comes to viability, and even the highest tiered character will do you no good if you don't just love that character. If you're Ganon at heart, embrace that.

 

[Kulty]

Thanks for your help man! I chose to main, since he's perfect for me. I will try to learn other characters such as. At the same time, practice with my Melee mains. Who knows? Maybe I might switch Pit sometime in the future. Again not sure! Haven't played Project M fully enough so there's still a chance that I might main someone other than Pit.

 

[Jamble]

Dude, I've been playing PM for a month and just like.. 5 days ago figured out that of all the characters, I have more of a natural talent for Samus compared to the rest. I have switched characters like 9 times, so just kinda feel out what feels most natural and the coolest. Happy smashing!

 

[Kulty]

Dude, I've been playing PM for a month and just like.. 5 days ago figured out that of all the characters, I have more of a natural talent for Samus compared to the rest. I have switched characters like 9 times, so just kinda feel out what feels most natural and the coolest. Happy smashing!

Yeah. Thanks. My adventure through Project M has just begun. Time to go to the lab with. I really hope I get results with him, so that I don't get to switch often. At least, I do have some character backups: . I'll try to learn these backup characters at the same time, but I'm also interested in(not sure but I'll give him a shot).

 

[Kulty]

Dude, I've been playing PM for a month and just like.. 5 days ago figured out that of all the characters, I have more of a natural talent for Samus compared to the rest. I have switched characters like 9 times, so just kinda feel out what feels most natural and the coolest. Happy smashing!

Also, I forgot to ask you something. Do you think Ganondorf has potential to be viable in the 3.6 PM metagame? I think he's the character that I enjoy the most outside of my new main Pit and my Melee mains (not sure, but Ganon is really close).

 

[Jamble]

I might not be the best person to ask, I'm really new myself, but I'd say yes he's a good character. If Ganon can get in on you, he is absolutely brutal. There are a few Ganon users who float around here I think, they might be able to give you better input on his pros/cons. CORY who answered earlier is a Ganon main, and from the sounds of it you might need to back him up with an alt or something if you get into high competitive play.

 

[CORY]

he's viable, in that you can actually play him and he does have strengths that can be leveraged on the cast.

as solo main, though, no. he has a handful of really really bad matchups (falco, namely; toon link and link are also really bad for similar reasons; fox on anything but small stages, along with squirtle and pika; i feel like snake is terrible, but i could just be misplaying bad; ivy used to be horrid, but i haven't played against ivy since 3.5, so it might've changed).

beyond that, you don't have any really "good" matchups. ganon tends to sit between 55-45 and 45-55 for a lot of the cast, with his handful of bad matchups, making him just kinda lowish mid, most likely. he'll destroy low level players because they don't know how to properly respect space and bait and they tend to have bad tech habits, letting you just punish them for free out of stuff, but past that point, you'll end up working a lot to get your openings which will wear you down as the tourney goes on; and on certain characters, low damage still only gets you tech reads, which you still need a hardish read to continue, so you can work right once, then lose control of the game and have to fight back to that point again.

the upside is that people HAVE to respect you, because if they stop you'll put them off stage at high damage in about 4 hits. at that point, you hold a lot of power, with your big hitboxes and high kb aerials combined with float letting you go deep or wait out their stalling.

so, basically: play ganon if you like ganon and his playstyle. keep a pocket ganon to be like junebug and steal peoples' small stage counterpicks (until the tourney rules meta catches on that locking stages first is dumb, at least). otherwise, your list of characters has several that are far better at a base level than ganon and several that are actually really strong solo mains (wolf and metaknight, namely. sonic might be solo mainable, along with pit, mewtwo, roy, and lucario).

 

[Kulty]

he's viable, in that you can actually play him and he does have strengths that can be leveraged on the cast.

as solo main, though, no. he has a handful of really really bad matchups (falco, namely; toon link and link are also really bad for similar reasons; fox on anything but small stages, along with squirtle and pika; i feel like snake is terrible, but i could just be misplaying bad; ivy used to be horrid, but i haven't played against ivy since 3.5, so it might've changed).

beyond that, you don't have any really "good" matchups. ganon tends to sit between 55-45 and 45-55 for a lot of the cast, with his handful of bad matchups, making him just kinda lowish mid, most likely. he'll destroy low level players because they don't know how to properly respect space and bait and they tend to have bad tech habits, letting you just punish them for free out of stuff, but past that point, you'll end up working a lot to get your openings which will wear you down as the tourney goes on; and on certain characters, low damage still only gets you tech reads, which you still need a hardish read to continue, so you can work right once, then lose control of the game and have to fight back to that point again.

the upside is that people HAVE to respect you, because if they stop you'll put them off stage at high damage in about 4 hits. at that point, you hold a lot of power, with your big hitboxes and high kb aerials combined with float letting you go deep or wait out their stalling.

so, basically: play ganon if you like ganon and his playstyle. keep a pocket ganon to be like junebug and steal peoples' small stage counterpicks (until the tourney rules meta catches on that locking stages first is dumb, at least). otherwise, your list of characters has several that are far better at a base level than ganon and several that are actually really strong solo mains (wolf and metaknight, namely. sonic might be solo mainable, along with pit, mewtwo, roy, and lucario).

I'm asking this, because I think that can solveissues in terms of matchups. Then again, I might change to someone else the more I play Project M, since I haven't tried every character, but at the same time, I only want to try someone who's different from the main Smash games. I mostly interested in these types. So basically:
Viable(solo):
Viable (potential solo):
Semi-viable (needs secondary):
What are your thoughts about (if you know a lot about them)? For Ike, I feel he can be solo such as Ally who demonstrates how powerful he can be.

 

[CORY]

i think ike suffers against fast characters who can pressure shields (iirc), but otherwise he's really solid with burst movement, a slew of options out of that burst movement, good range, and good power/damage on his attacks. he's a more solid character than dorf, overall, but he does have really rough matchups.

samus, i don't know much about. in melee, she was right near the edge of viable, with melee dorf and doc (again iirc). her basic gameplan still works rather well in the pm meta, and she's gotten a few new tools to help out her overall game, as well, but i really don't know how much she can do solo.

overall, there's no character with entirely losing matchups. even bowser is in a good enough spot to have a few positive matchups and kinda flat everything else with a handful of bad ones. just pick who you like. if you just started playing pm, your character choice is going to matter much much much less than your grasp of spacing and neutral game basics.

don't worry about having a character spread to cover your holes because you'll likely have holes everywhere that you aren't aware of yet, just because you haven't had experience with stuff yet. not even trying to make a knock on you, that's just how it is when you start playing a new game.

just pick someone whose playstyle appeals to you and run with them until you find out you don't like them or think you'd rather try someone else.

 

[Kulty]

Fun fact that I read on the SmashWiki page of Project M. It says that the only bottom characters were . But they were fixed in 3.6 to make them more viable. Because of this, is this true that there's not true bottom tier anymore in PM?

Like basically, for a main in PM, I want a character that:

• Feels different or has a different moveset compared to the main Smash games
  
• Rewarding on hits and creates hype (I think every character in PM does)
  
• Low technical learning curve, but don't mind having a high learning curve overall as long as he's not too technical
  
• Great frame data
• Don't mind if character is slow (because of PM physics, I feel that everyone is fast even)
• A mix of offense and defense. Or a bait and punish character. In other words, I play patiently and once my opponent makes a mistake, I go in and rush in until my opponent resets the neutral.
• Good or decent range
• At least decent combos
• Don't mind being comboed, since everyone gets comboed hard in PM physics.

That's basically what I can think on top of my head. I choose between. I don't know if Pit fits those criterias perfectly.

 

[Jamble]

Samus is a very versatile character which I think makes her solid. She has one of the highest weights in the game, making her very hard to kill off the sides combined with bomb jumping, screw attack, aerial dodge > tethers. She has both ice and plasma forms which you can change between fairly quickly with taunt canceling. That combined with bomb jump aerial shenanigans, multiple projectiles (all of which are good, between charge shot, ice and plasma missiles) and potent aerial moves makes her a fun and versatile character who, for me, really draws on the creative part of my brain during matches more than most other characters do.

 

[CORY]

There's always a bottom tier in any game. Someone has to be the worst, that's just how it is.

The question is just "what's the difference in matchup spreads between the top and bottom tiers?", which might be what they were alluding to. No one in pm is truly unviable, but there are characters with worse matchup spreads and that's very important.

 

[Kulty]

There's always a bottom tier in any game. Someone has to be the worst, that's just how it is.

The question is just "what's the difference in matchup spreads between the top and bottom tiers?", which might be what they were alluding to. No one in pm is truly unviable, but there are characters with worse matchup spreads and that's very important.

Who do you think of good examples of characters with worse matchup spreads and examples of bottom tier characters in PM 3.6?

 

[Jamble]

I think you might be focusing too much on tiers and not enough on overall playstyle and feel. I know you don't want to get stuck with a character that doesn't work but I think the greater point is that the matchups are never unmanageable in this game, even at their worst. The meta is also constantly developing and changing due to actual character changes and overall meta advancements for each character. You are going to play infinitely better with a character you like, "high tier" or not.

 

[Kulty]

Samus is a very versatile character which I think makes her solid. She has one of the highest weights in the game, making her very hard to kill off the sides combined with bomb jumping, screw attack, aerial dodge > tethers. She has both ice and plasma forms which you can change between fairly quickly with taunt canceling. That combined with bomb jump aerial shenanigans, multiple projectiles (all of which are good, between charge shot, ice and plasma missiles) and potent aerial moves makes her a fun and versatile character who, for me, really draws on the creative part of my brain during matches more than most other characters do.

It's like the characters that are close to fit these criterias imo are . I don't know much for.
feels a bit boring after a while (maybe because of his nature of being broken in Brawl).
feels sluggish and has a laggy moveset. The rest is fine, but I want to have good frame data which is important for me.
. Well I personally don't like camping too much and she feels way too floaty for me. I don't know for projectiles.
are way too technical for me. I don't mind playing them as secondaries, but oh well...

 

[Kulty]

I think you might be focusing too much on tiers and not enough on overall playstyle and feel. I know you don't want to get stuck with a character that doesn't work but I think the greater point is that the matchups are never unmanageable in this game, even at their worst. The meta is also constantly developing and changing due to actual character changes and overall meta advancements for each character. You are going to play infinitely better with a character you like, "high tier" or not.

Yeah, maybe. I don't want to be a tier *****, but since it's Project M, I don't feel there's any tier list that exists, since the roster is pretty much balanced and the gap between best and worst character is not that large right?

 

[Jamble]

That's always up for discussion. Keep in mind though, that some characters the community as a whole just doesn't know enough about. I don't htink a ton of people know Olimar for example. It's also that the meta isn't really completely stable, and won't be until the final project too. I think it's a lot more balanced and the gaps are smaller, but who knows what we'll find a year from now? May as well enjoy the ride in the meantime.

I also don't think 90% of players play at a skill level where the tier differences really matter anyway TBH.

 

[Kulty]

That's always up for discussion. Keep in mind though, that some characters the community as a whole just doesn't know enough about. I don't htink a ton of people know Olimar for example. It's also that the meta isn't really completely stable, and won't be until the final project too. I think it's a lot more balanced and the gaps are smaller, but who knows what we'll find a year from now? May as well enjoy the ride in the meantime.

I also don't think 90% of players play at a skill level where the tier differences really matter anyway TBH.

Yeah. I just went from thread to thread for each character that I'm interested in as well as general discussion about characters and they were all pretty mixed. Many people think that X character is the best, others say Y, others say Z... It just doesn't stop and it confused me a lot. XD I think it really shows how unstable the PM metagame really is. Plus, there's a lot of character variety in PM tournaments, am I right (in terms of top 8 results)?

 

[Jamble]

At the end of the day, does the variety at tournaments really matter for your character choice?

Say you hate playing Sheik, and Sheik dominated Smash 4 style. Would it really be worth putting all the hours into a character you hate? Ultimately it doesn't really matter in the end.

 

[Kulty]

At the end of the day, does the variety at tournaments really matter for your character choice?

Say you hate playing Sheik, and Sheik dominated Smash 4 style. Would it really be worth putting all the hours into a character you hate? Ultimately it doesn't really matter in the end.

No, it's just it brings me relief that every character can be viable in PM and that it doesn't matter which character you play as long as you have fun with the characters. This fact doesn't even matter for my character choice, since we are free to choose which character we want to play since the balance gap is very negligible.

 

[Kulty]

No, it's just it brings me relief that every character can be viable in PM and that it doesn't matter which character you play as long as you have fun with the characters. This fact doesn't even matter for my character choice, since we are free to choose which character we want to play since the balance gap is very negligible.

But yeah, I'm sticking to my guts of my characters that I enjoy in PM which are. It all comes to the matter of whoever I enjoy the most as a character and I'll explain my reasons:
: love what Sakurai did to Pit in Smash4. I love his playstyle and his character. Even if I never played a Kid Icarus game before, I still love him. He also makes me think of an anime character due to his design.
: my second favorite video game character after. I have so many memories with him and I love his moveset in PM, making more references to Sonic games and the alternate costumes mostly (better than the main Smash games by A TON).
: even if he's slow, he makes me think of so much and I love his rewards behind his combo potential and punish game. His movements are so swag, love his down-taunt disrespect and his float mechanic. Makes me happy to actually see him being different compared to Falcon, since he's more Zelda-ish than Falcon-ish.
: tons of buffs that make me love him. Plus, has the same playstyle as Marth, but with different strategies of course.

It's just to give you an idea on how I struggle to choose a main in PM, since I enjoy these four equally.

 

[Giygacoal]

are way too technical for me. I don't mind playing them as secondaries, but oh well...

Maintaining a Lucario isn't really that bad imo once you get the rhythm, though I guess that can be said about any character.