Solid Secondary?

[Hyruled]

So, as an avid Toon Link fan in smash 4, I was wondering which characters I could pick up as secondaries in order to cover his weakness. I personally like Fox, Villager, Meta Knight, and especially Peach, but none are nearly as good as the Toon. What do you guys think of the topic?

*As a side note, I like quicker characters with strong areals and good spacing. Just in case you needed to know! :3

 

[jdubYOU]

I'm a fan of Kirby. Definitely covers some of Toon's major weaknesses but has a pretty different play style in general. Toon can't always land safe; Kirby has multiple jumps and can usually find a way to land (spends a lot of time in the air anyway). Toon can't do well against characters that rush him down and get in close; Kirby can take to the air to get away. If you face an opponent who is excellent at countering projectile game, switching to a character like Kirby throws them for a loop. However, Kirby shares the weakness of getting KOed fairly early.

 

[NachoThePikachu]

Interesting. I main Pikachu and use Toon as a secondary. Maybe you could try the same, just the other way around? XD
Pikachu is an extremely good pressure/retreat character. His arials are also great, and his combo game is incredible. He's a little harder to use and main, but if you'd be willing to try and master, I promise you won't regret it. ^u^
Pikachu's recovery is one of the best in game (with Skull bash for horizontal distance and Quick Attack for a wide variety of recovery movement) he is, of course, a little more on the lighter side, but isn't as light as you'd expect. He's got the speed and necessary spacing (with his main projectile being thunder jolt) and his smash attacks ain't all that bad either.
Take note: Pikachu's kill potential isn't as great as it was in prior titles, but with the right set up, kills can come just as easy.
Whenever someone manages to take down my Pika because of a weakness, I throw out my toon to cover. Pikachu's able to handle faster, comboey characters while toon link is not, and toon can handle being tossed around more and kill the heavier weights easier, which I enjoy.
So yeah, that's an option too. :3

 

[SDMagic]

This may sound strange but I'd recommend using a character with the opposite playstyle that you use for Toon. There's a couple of reasons for this, one is that you get to feel the game from a different perspective when you're learning the character you choose. This can help bolster some fundamentals that can still apply to Toon that you don't currently use too often with Toon, helping you improve in the process. This could also help you figure out how to better keep this kind of character out if you like to play a zoning/keep-away type Toon.

The second reason is that opposite characters usually don't share the same weaknesses. Characters like C.Falcon or Fox aren't in any way weak to fierce rushdown.

So my recommendations kind of in order from most to least is:
Fox (great areals, properly spacing his smashes and tilts are key, fast faller, fast, rushdown oriented)

Shiek (crazy good arials, properly spacing tilts and smashes are what lead to combo/kills, extremely fast, rushdown/combo oriented)

Diddy (All of his arials [except nair] are equally great, faster than average, spacing Fsmash correctly makes it very safe, has some projectile game to reinforce Toon [peanuts and banana], has a lot of mixup and combo potential)

C.Falcon (up air is so good it's basically all you need, fast, fast faller, properly spacing Fsmash is an almost assured kill, rushdown)

 

[Hyruled]

This may sound strange but I'd recommend using a character with the opposite playstyle that you use for Toon. There's a couple of reasons for this, one is that you get to feel the game from a different perspective when you're learning the character you choose. This can help bolster some fundamentals that can still apply to Toon that you don't currently use too often with Toon, helping you improve in the process. This could also help you figure out how to better keep this kind of character out if you like to play a zoning/keep-away type Toon.

The second reason is that opposite characters usually don't share the same weaknesses. Characters like C.Falcon or Fox aren't in any way weak to fierce rushdown.

So my recommendations kind of in order from most to least is:
Fox (great areals, properly spacing his smashes and tilts are key, fast faller, fast, rushdown oriented)

Shiek (crazy good arials, properly spacing tilts and smashes are what lead to combo/kills, extremely fast, rushdown/combo oriented)

Diddy (All of his arials [except nair] are equally great, faster than average, spacing Fsmash correctly makes it very safe, has some projectile game to reinforce Toon [peanuts and banana], has a lot of mixup and combo potential)

C.Falcon (up air is so good it's basically all you need, fast, fast faller, properly spacing Fsmash is an almost assured kill, rushdown)

Thanks for the input, I've pretty much decided on Jigglypuff and Villager. Villager is fast and spaces well, plus, he can throw out really good combos especially against players with bad DI. Puff, on the other hand, is nice at air fights and can kill early with rest. However, I also came to the same conclusion you did with Fox. He complements Toon Link very well, so I don't want to rule him out yet. My sheik is TRASH, but Diddy isn't too bad of an option. As for CF, I don't really have any experience with him save for a little bit in melee, so I might need to take a look! :3

Interesting. I main Pikachu and use Toon as a secondary. Maybe you could try the same, just the other way around? XD
Pikachu is an extremely good pressure/retreat character. His arials are also great, and his combo game is incredible. He's a little harder to use and main, but if you'd be willing to try and master, I promise you won't regret it. ^u^
Pikachu's recovery is one of the best in game (with Skull bash for horizontal distance and Quick Attack for a wide variety of recovery movement) he is, of course, a little more on the lighter side, but isn't as light as you'd expect. He's got the speed and necessary spacing (with his main projectile being thunder jolt) and his smash attacks ain't all that bad either.
Take note: Pikachu's kill potential isn't as great as it was in prior titles, but with the right set up, kills can come just as easy.
Whenever someone manages to take down my Pika because of a weakness, I throw out my toon to cover. Pikachu's able to handle faster, comboey characters while toon link is not, and toon can handle being tossed around more and kill the heavier weights easier, which I enjoy.
So yeah, that's an option too. :3

I've never thought of Pika, sounds interesting. I might need to give him a try. :3

I'm a fan of Kirby. Definitely covers some of Toon's major weaknesses but has a pretty different play style in general. Toon can't always land safe; Kirby has multiple jumps and can usually find a way to land (spends a lot of time in the air anyway). Toon can't do well against characters that rush him down and get in close; Kirby can take to the air to get away. If you face an opponent who is excellent at countering projectile game, switching to a character like Kirby throws them for a loop. However, Kirby shares the weakness of getting KOed fairly early.

I've actually been dabbling with puff to counter characters like ness and sheik who love staying in the air. I've also been using villager in order to stop rush downs like captain falcon because toon honestly can't do anything against him. Finally, I've been looking at fox who can rush down rush down characters. In any case, I really do like puff as she's kinda just a different version of kirby that can juggle in the air better.

 

[Moffe]

Im having fox my second. Its been working pretty good just need to get him on closer lvl as my toon

 

[T00NL1NK]

For a while I've been using Mario as a second to Tink but I decided to drop him recently due to him not really helping my bad MU's. I think I was only using him because he was fun. What I want to know though his who I can use to second. Characters that Tink seems to have a tough time against are like, Marth, Rosalina (Characters that can keep the foe out with spacing.) I pocket Marth if that helps.
Characters I'm considering:
-Pit (Strongly Considering)
-Marth (Move up to Second, Congrats kid you earned it! :3)
-Maybe Sheik/Pikachu? (I'd prefer not to use them though).

 

[NachoThePikachu]

I personally main Pikachu and secondary Toon for my bad matchups. I can't say much in terms of whether or not the reverse would work too, but just figured i'd share that. Pikachu can get into characters that space well with a nicely-placed quick-attack, and can space/camp himself if he needs to. I personally think Pikachu is best as a pressuring character, where he can get in quickly and rack up damage fast. Like Toon, he's quick and light so it's not too hard to adjust to the size. Toon's my go-to for characters Pika can't handle, and of course, maining Pika, I use Pika for match-ups Toon struggles with.

Though, Pikachu is difficult to master, so you'd need to work really hard to perfect your Quick-Attacks and other things. Just something to consider, considering you yourself don't seem like you want to use Pika XD

But yeah, just throwing out a little thing. :3

 

[Snasen]

I think this thread is for discussing who to tag up with in a 2vs2 match xD

Though thanks for your thoughts on secondaries.

I also had good experience with Ness btw. Agree to alot written in the OP!

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I think this thread is for discussing who to tag up with in a 2vs2 match xD

My bad. I moved the posts to the wrong thread. We're good now.

 

[CaliforniaSoul]

My bad. I moved the posts to the wrong thread. We're good now.

Is this not similar to the post I made in the Link forums that was locked?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Is this not similar to the post I made in the Link forums that was locked?

It's a different character board with a different demographic. I mod it and organise it slightly differently where appropriate. (And in any case the focus of the two threads is slightly different.) If you want to talk about it further this is not the place in any case. (Technically this is off-topic and therefore spam.) I'd be more than happy to talk about it via PM's so we don't clutter up the threads.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

It seems to be a generally accepted consensus that Pikachu/Toon Link is a good pairing. Axe in Melee does it (replacing Toon with Young obviously), and I've seen more than a few people who main Pika and second Toon Link, myself included. I'm sure it works the other way around, Toon Link being a good main with Pika on the secondary.

 

[mush21]

I've been tooling around with Lucas and I'm really enjoying him. He has some common threads with toon link (tether grab, kill throws, good aerials) so he doesn't seem to foreign. Although, his footstool stuff is really difficult for me. I've been playing around with pit too, who I also enjoy.

Who should I spend more of my time developing into a secondary?

 

[Zeriora]

Hm I tend to stay away from top tiers because they're too predictable. I picked up meta knight and toon link and I find that Toon Link is a good counterpart for meta knight and meta knight is a good counterpart for toon link.

 

[joltekz]

sheik main here, i feel like if you play tink then switch to sheik because of the very different playstyles it usually throws them off.

 

[Darkpit54]

I main DP(obviously), but I second Toon Link. Maybe try Dark Pit.

 

[C0rvus]

I generally back Tink up with DK. He covers my least favorite MUs (Bowser and Mario) and has a completely different play style than Tink.
Also might be checking out Mewtwo. He seems hella good.

 

[Chese1]

Thats kinda funny, I came here as a Fox main and came to see if I can improve my toon link to see if I can use him as a viable secondary, the same with pikachu, but I decided to visit the toon link threads first xD

Fox is a very good offensive character, which gives Toon Link trouble, but the thing about fox is that he can rushdown a rushdown character (as said in Hyruled's post), which makes up for that weakness in full as well as for the offensive ability vs spacing characters (looking at you marth and rosa) so for sure he is viable vs some of the bad matchups toon pink has, but it comes down to performance and preference

 

[Fluorescent]

If I have trouble with Tink I usually have a or to pull out.

They both have some better MU's than Tink and can be able to do things Tink cannot. Examples would be: being able to escape rush downs, profit from grabs, just having a better overall MU against the cast.

If anyone was wondering, I chose Ness as a secondary simply because B-throw op (and how Tink also has a similar B-throw). I soon added ZSS because I loved her punish game and her overall effectiveness.

 

[FUEGO!]

I guess Mario? I'm one of those lame dudes who likes to try my best in the bad match ups and just power through.

 

[TsarofToon]

Ok, ima ask a similar question to what this person who made this ask. I am also A TL main, but I also have Mario, Ike, Kirby, and Diddy as my mains. And for secondaries I have Marth, Robin, Shulk, Villager and Lucas. The secondaries were just picked at random and I need a bit of help deciding who should actually be a good backup for TL. Thanks in Advance! (P.S I can use a lot of characters, but Fox, MEwtwo, Dedede,Megaman, Pacman, Peach, and Wario. All other characters are just pocket characters.)

Edit : I have started to learn MEGA Man, MEwtwo, and Fox.

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

Toon Link's learning curve is suitable for being a secondary. He is absolutely crazy with Bomb setups, but otherwise, he is pretty simple to learn. I'll give you some very basic pro's and con's
Pros:He has an unarguably better boomerang than Link. It deals more damage and knock back, and doesn't drag the opponents torwards you. He has the 3RD strongest back throw in the game, killing pretty easy. He has a kill confirm in Bomb to Fair. Bomb setups can lead to ludicrous damage. He can access the ability to Jump Cancel Glide Toss, which is throwing a bomb after pressing jump while running, which can lead into easy 20%'s or around. Here's a video on how you do it:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3_vOtY5kCc. He is quick on the ground and has great Short Hop options (Which may include a bomb setup). He can kill extremely easy for a lightweight. He has a Zair.

Cons: He has a Sub-Par air speed, he is floaty, his recovery is poor horizontally, he has bad frame data in the air, the worst Sword in the game, Hero's Bow is slow and near useless. He has the worst spike in the game, as it more often than not kill you if used in the air and not on the ledge. He has poor traction.

Ðecide for yourself after reading this.

 

[BL_SCOTT]

...Cons: He has a Sub-Par air speed, he is floaty, his recovery is poor horizontally, he has bad frame data in the air, the worst Sword in the game, Hero's Bow is slow and near useless. He has the worst spike in the game, as it more often than not kill you if used in the air and not on the ledge. He has poor traction...

I wouldn't say hero's bow is near useless. it autocancels in a short hop, can be used to frame trap landing opponents, covers ledge options, and is one more projectile you can have out in the air. also it's his only jab locking move [other than dair below 8%]. it's definitely his worst projectile but i wouldn't say it's useless. Also, i know what you mean with dair in that it's pretty much impossibly to land a dair without dying other than 2-framing recoveries and hitting up b's like cloud's and little mac's, but in terms of power it's actually tied with samus for the strongest spike in the game. it's also a good combo tool at 0% because you can jab lock footstools you get out of bombs or up tilts leading to some neat combos if it works, or you can force a tech if the opponent's percent is high enough leading to some pretty neat combos if you can read the opponent correctly