SOLAR's Bowser Jr : Instant Improvement Thread!

[SOLAR]

If you know me, you'll know I am a Melee Peach player. I don't really feel like Smash 4 Peach transferred over so well, but I do get a kick out of Smash 4 every now and then. I ONLY play Bows Jr when I do play. For me, he's a very unique, creative, and fun character to play as. I don't think he's top tier, but he is probably viable at most levels of play. He's probably upper mid or high tier. I've achieved moderate success in my 1v1s, and I just want to focus on 6 things that will make you better with Bowser Jr, and I'll share my general thoughts about his move-set.

1. Except for when facing characters that can absorb your MechaKoopas (such as Villager), you should basically be dropping one out every chance you get. They are incredible, and you have a better neutral game and approach game if one is on the field. Don't not use this move! You can follow a MechaKoopa with a neutral B cannon against many opponents forcing them to awkwardly approach!

2. Get good at shorthopping and auto cancelling Fairs and Bairs. If you've ever played as Jigglypuff in Melee, this is similar to the wall of pain. You jump forward, attack, then instantly retreat. It's safe for you, and dangerous for the opponent. It should be the bread and butter of your neutral game!

3. Nair is excellent. Nair a lot. It is fast, safe, and can begin an attack string at lower %s, and it can set up edge-guard situations. Remember, every time you can get them out of your hair with a nair, you can produce another meddlesome MechaKoopa!

4. Save the offensive Up B, and the F smash as mix up options. Don't let the opponents get used to defending against the attacks. They are excellent moves to punish approach-happy enemies.

5. Learn up-smash out of a shield. It's an amazing option in many situations when they attack your shield, and it can be a good bait. Jumping and nairing out of a shield is not bad either.

6. The car can really pester and surprise opponents every once in a while! It's also good for recovery. Get familiar with jumping out of the car and attacking.

I'll leave you with some random thoughts. The dash attack is excellent for free sheild pressure and free %. The range and speed are impressive. It doesn't do anything major except rack up %. Uptilt may provide some low % combos, but it is actually quite unsafe if you miss. If you are lucky enough to safely hit with one, and they are at VERY low %s, you can string two or 3 together, and lead it into a uair, usmash, or fsmash depending on their DI and their knockback. His grab game isn't particularly great, but his backthrow is pretty good for getting high % kills, and the range is decent, although it is punishable. If you have M-Koopas on the field, getting a grab can lead to inventive combos, so be mindful of that. His f-tilt is okay in a pinch, but usually there are better options. The Dsmash is basically only for hard reads, and shouldn't be used very often. The jab flurry is excellent. It should be used when the opponent is too close, and you are in danger of getting attacked. The downtilt is pretty safe, and actually blocks many projectiles and cancels approaches. I feel like the character's worst matchup is Rosalina due to the fact that she can render MechaKoopa useless, and her general brokenness (kind of) only adds to the problem. Her aerial game seems safer, and in my experience, the only way to beat her is to be very patient and outspace her with aerials the good ol fashion way. If you can land an upsmash or an F smash, you can get early kills, but approaching is really difficult. The only move I haven't discussed is the Dair. It's pretty self explanitory, and I don't think it's a particularly good or bad move. Well, that's enough for this post!

 

[pikazz]

if I may, I want to add some points to Jr.

• His Fair is amazing, thanks to its perfect power, speed and disjointed hitboxes, he have his own WoP similiar to Jigglypuffs. thanks to his third jump with SideB, Jr always makes it back to the stage.
  I have won some matches solidy of his WoP
  
  
• Learn to Jab Lock with Jr. it can be situational, but it can really help you getting kills with it. my recommentation is to jab lock 3 times and do a Side Smash Attack, since the opponent are forced to get up you will get some time to charge the Side Smash power. if the opponent are near the edge on the Jab Lock at 50-60%, it has huge chance to kill
  
  
• Dash Attacking against a Rosalina shield will hit the luma and send it away on the final hit, if she is doing it against a ledge and you want the luma gone, do it! thanks to the prelonged hitboxes, rosalina can either be hit by it aswell or release her shield earlier!
  
  
• Landing DAir hit also works on anything that can get hit/get damage, including Lumas! so if you do a DAir against a Rosalina and she is shielding, aim for the luma! if the landing Dair hits it, it will fly away but you will can move without any end lag! giving you either a chance to retreat from Rosalina if you expect a OoT Option or Attack her before she has any chance to do any of her OoT options.
  If Rosalina will attack while you are in Hitlag, the prelonged Hitbox from the Landing Dair can attack her aswell
  
  
• Against opponents that can reflect/nullify your projectiles in a move that doesnt loop (Rosalinas DownB, Villager B, Marios SideB ect), if you put down a Mecha Koopa, charging the cannon and time it perfectly so that you can hit the opponent AFTER the reflection without any time to react! best thing is that the mecha koopa will die to your cannon ball if reflected!
  however, it can backfire if they know what you are doing and aiming to reflect cannonball instead. use it wisely.
  
  
• almost the same point as above, but also works on those reflects that loops (Fox DownB). if you deploy a Mecha Koopa and do a SideB, you get an easier approching and can attack the opponent if they choose to reflect!
  
  
• SideB is your Tool, use it!
  Jr SideB is amazing, similiar to Sonic, you can jumpcancel it and do anything from frame one of the jump Cancel! use this in your mixup!

 

[guedes the brawler]

down air is an incredible combo starter... if you can auto cancel it (which requires you to avoid the shield...)

also, i disagree with rosalina being our worst match-up. it's definitively Fox. He is faster than us, almost as strong, has the least trouble out of any character in regards to dealing with mechakoopa, and can use his jab infinite on as at ANY %. we do have an advantage on him when he's off stage but that's so difficult vs a good fox that... yeah.

 

[VileFC3S]

Thanks guys for this thread! Probably the most precise and easiest to follow in comparison with the other threads. I can't emphasize enough about the mechakoopas on how they should be used at all times if possible (Unless Villager of course).

Also if anybody can clarify, should Bowser Jr be overall played mainly as a neutral gaming character in 1v1s?

6. The car can really pester and surprise opponents every once in a while! It's also good for recovery. Get familiar with jumping out of the car and attacking.

I'm pretty sure you're aware about Bowser Jr losing his sideB jump cancel while on the ground. So the mind-games will eventually be gone for that. =/

 

[Duck SMASH!]

I've commented in Bold on several points in this thread so far.

If you know me, you'll know I am a Melee Peach player. I don't really feel like Smash 4 Peach transferred over so well, but I do get a kick out of Smash 4 every now and then. I ONLY play Bows Jr when I do play. For me, he's a very unique, creative, and fun character to play as. I don't think he's top tier, but he is probably viable at most levels of play. He's probably upper mid or high tier. I've achieved moderate success in my 1v1s, and I just want to focus on 6 things that will make you better with Bowser Jr, and I'll share my general thoughts about his move-set.

1. Except for when facing characters that can absorb your MechaKoopas (such as Villager), you should basically be dropping one out every chance you get. They are incredible, and you have a better neutral game and approach game if one is on the field. Don't not use this move! You can follow a MechaKoopa with a neutral B cannon against many opponents forcing them to awkwardly approach!
MKs help you establish much needed stage control. But please don't follow it with the cannon - it has absurdly long lag both before and after, and there are much better things you could be doing as Jr.

2. Get good at shorthopping and auto cancelling Fairs and Bairs. If you've ever played as Jigglypuff in Melee, this is similar to the wall of pain. You jump forward, attack, then instantly retreat. It's safe for you, and dangerous for the opponent. It should be the bread and butter of your neutral game!
Yes. Jr's mobility is good enough that you can string together several Fairs and knock people offstage with them.
But don't stop there. Go off stage and keep hitting them until they can't recover (not advised for some characters like Meta Knight, Villager, Kirby, and Pit, because they're all better offstage and you risk dying yourself if you get hit). Jr's recovery is excellent once you use side B as a third jump as Pikazz mentioned and it provides a lot of mixup potential for timing your recovery.
3. Nair is excellent. Nair a lot. It is fast, safe, and can begin an attack string at lower %s, and it can set up edge-guard situations. Remember, every time you can get them out of your hair with a nair, you can produce another meddlesome MechaKoopa!
Try not to rely on Nair TOO much... it does not autocancel ffrom short hops and has enough endlag for you to be punished. While it is good for getting some breathing room and breaking combos (fast fall this if you need to), His other aerials are better, if you have the time to pull them out. As others have mentioned, Dair has no landing lag if you score a hit. Uair, Fair, and Bair all auto cancel from short hops so they're more useful.
4. Save the offensive Up B, and the F smash as mix up options. Don't let the opponents get used to defending against the attacks. They are excellent moves to punish approach-happy enemies.
Side B can combo into up B's hammer swing at high %s. It's character dependent, however. Check the true combo thread on this board for more information. Will edit link into this post in a second.
Up B is also a great ledge trap. Stand next to the ledge and up B once you think your oppponent will get up. It covers getup attack, normal getup, and the explosion can cover jump too, while Jr. himself can be positioned to cover getup rolls. Trust me, this is an excellent mixup and I have scored plenty of kills with it.
You can also edgeguard with up B by using it to block characters from reaching the ledge. But you must time it properly to avoid letting them snap and gaining invincibility. Furthermore, you could be edgeguarding yourself with aerials and it would be more effective most of the time.
5. Learn up-smash out of a shield. It's an amazing option in many situations when they attack your shield, and it can be a good bait. Jumping and nairing out of a shield is not bad either.
Yes. this is very useful and one of Jr's best kill options. Usmash will save your ass if you master it and give Jr a reliable kill option. It comes out on frame 6 I believe, so it will punish mistakes fast enough. Read landings and ledge rolls with it.

6. The car can really pester and surprise opponents every once in a while! It's also good for recovery. Get familiar with jumping out of the car and attacking.
Side B is crucial for increasing Jr's mobility, but it is predictable.
Reduce its startup lag by jumping then cancelling your jump with side B. You'll take half as long to start up and it can mean the difference between being shielded and knocking opponents offstage.
As Pikazz mentioned, you can attack or air dodge immediately after jumping out of side B. If you see opponents like Link and Greninja constantly trying to SH nair you out of kart (because only the kart has super armor - Jr. is still vulnerable), jump out of side B and meet them with our disjointed Fair. Will power through them every time. You will have to read their action because the startup lag from Fair and the fact that the jump out of side B is floaty means that Jr. will lose this if he reacts at the same time as those instant Nairs.
Practice using side B and incorporating it into your play. Jr can be a very clunky character and every little bit of speed helps.

I'll leave you with some random thoughts. The dash attack is excellent for free sheild pressure and free %. The range and speed are impressive. It doesn't do anything major except rack up %.
Dash attack is still unsafe on shield. It is a good mixup and can punish spott dodges due to its lasting hitbox, but don't throw this out too often or you'll be shield grabbed constantly.
Uptilt may provide some low % combos, but it is actually quite unsafe if you miss. If you are lucky enough to safely hit with one, and they are at VERY low %s, you can string two or 3 together, and lead it into a uair, usmash, or fsmash depending on their DI and their knockback.
Agreed. Utilt doesn't easily hit opponents in front of you. Be careful and only use it as an anti air or if they're right in your face because otherwise you'll miss and be punished.
His grab game isn't particularly great, but his backthrow is pretty good for getting high % kills, and the range is decent, although it is punishable.
His grab is one of the worst in the game. Takes 12 to 14 frames to come out but has like half the range of Link's grab. Against faster characters this grab is only for hard reads. Otherwise, you're going to miss the grab every time and get punished against someone like Fox.
If you have M-Koopas on the field, getting a grab can lead to inventive combos, so be mindful of that.
Yea MKs work well with his grab. Just wait and let the MK tack on an extra 9% then throw.
His f-tilt is okay in a pinch, but usually there are better options.
It is a reliable punisher with excellent range and speed. You can also tilt it up or down if you need to hit something like a crouching Kirby. It doesn't have much in combo potential, but don't neglect this move for spacing. Jr plays optimally when you've spaced your opponent a little bit and are abusing his disjointed attacks.
The Dsmash is basically only for hard reads, and shouldn't be used very often.
Yes. Dsmash has awful endlag. Don't use it unless your opponent is rolling around all day.
The jab flurry is excellent. It should be used when the opponent is too close, and you are in danger of getting attacked.
You can actually kill with the finisher. However, the jab hits don't link into each other that well unless your opponent is really close.
The downtilt is pretty safe, and actually blocks many projectiles and cancels approaches.
Yes. Use this to stop weaker projectiles from hitting you and worsening your positioning.

if I may, I want to add some points to Jr.

• His Fair is amazing, thanks to its perfect power, speed and disjointed hitboxes, he have his own WoP similiar to Jigglypuffs. thanks to his third jump with SideB, Jr always makes it back to the stage.
  I have won some matches solidy of his WoP
  Yes. His recovery is one of the best of the heavy characters so it helps you go for really deep edgeguards. I've recovered from off screen at the bottom of the stage before with the help of side B and up B.
• Learn to Jab Lock with Jr. it can be situational, but it can really help you getting kills with it. my recommentation is to jab lock 3 times and do a Side Smash Attack, since the opponent are forced to get up you will get some time to charge the Side Smash power. if the opponent are near the edge on the Jab Lock at 50-60%, it has huge chance to kill
  I myself have trouble landing jab locks, and they also rely on opponents missing techs on landing. But if you can get this in, more power to you.
  
• Dash Attacking against a Rosalina shield will hit the luma and send it away on the final hit, if she is doing it against a ledge and you want the luma gone, do it! thanks to the prelonged hitboxes, rosalina can either be hit by it aswell or release her shield earlier!
  If the Rosa catches on, you're going to get shield grabbed. But if you hit luma offstage, it's worth it. It will make the next 13 seconds after Luma vanishes easier for you to pressure her.
  
• Landing DAir hit also works on anything that can get hit/get damage, including Lumas! so if you do a DAir against a Rosalina and she is shielding, aim for the luma! if the landing Dair hits it, it will fly away but you will can move without any end lag! giving you either a chance to retreat from Rosalina if you expect a OoT Option or Attack her before she has any chance to do any of her OoT options.
  If Rosalina will attack while you are in Hitlag, the prelonged Hitbox from the Landing Dair can attack her aswell
  I didn't know that hitting Luma cancelled the end lag on this attack. You learn something new every day.
  
• Against opponents that can reflect/nullify your projectiles in a move that doesnt loop (Rosalinas DownB, Villager B, Marios SideB ect), if you put down a Mecha Koopa, charging the cannon and time it perfectly so that you can hit the opponent AFTER the reflection without any time to react! best thing is that the mecha koopa will die to your cannon ball if reflected!
  however, it can backfire if they know what you are doing and aiming to reflect cannonball instead. use it wisely.
  Dangerous. I only use cannonballs for mixups. Please don't ever cannonball the villager unless he already pocketed something.... he gets invincibility during his pocket, so he can be flexible with his pocket use, and if he gets your cannonball you WILL die if he hits you with it at moderate to high %s.
  
• almost the same point as above, but also works on those reflects that loops (Fox DownB). if you deploy a Mecha Koopa and do a SideB, you get an easier approching and can attack the opponent if they choose to reflect!
  This is important. Especially at higher levels of play, opponents will catch your MK more often and throw it back at you. All it takes is a shielding of the initial bump by the MK and then they can grab it because it does not have a lingering hitbox when walking.
  Fox and other characters should not be able to reflect for free. Punish them every time. If you need more time and are a safe distance away, do a short hop and release the MK. It will stall the MK a bit and let you wind up your side B for an approach. Watch out though as the endlag increases in midair.
  Mix up how you use your MKs. Don't let it walk to your opponent unguarded. Pick it up and use it for pressure. I tend to Z drop it in midair above my opponent so that I free up Jr to punish their reaction
  
• SideB is your Tool, use it!
  Jr SideB is amazing, similiar to Sonic, you can jumpcancel it and do anything from frame one of the jump Cancel! use this in your mixup!
  If only we could shield cancel our side B like Sonic...
  Alas, we can only dream...

 

[pikazz]

@ Duck SMASH! saw your bold text in my quote and just wanted to add stuff I appearently didnt add.
the cannon are only for mix up! its an option if you have mastered the timing! if you dont like it or have bad time doing it, approach the reflecter diffirently, like SideB to hit or SH Fair close!

and that Dash Attack on Rosa shield have surprised them many times since they either get hit by the prelonged hitstun or that they releasing it too early thanks to luma, however it works best if she does have her luma with her! otherwise it would be doing a dash attack on any other character!

the Landing Dair end lag gets no lag if you hit it with anything that can deal damage! so doing DAir on Rosalinas Shield ON her luma is the trick ;3
I did do that on Duck Hunt stage there I got the last hit on the stage hazard duck! it works even on Duck Hunts Can and Gunmen!

 

[krazyzyko]

down air is an incredible combo starter... if you can auto cancel it (which requires you to avoid the shield...)

also, i disagree with rosalina being our worst match-up. it's definitively Fox. He is faster than us, almost as strong, has the least trouble out of any character in regards to dealing with mechakoopa, and can use his jab infinite on as at ANY %. we do have an advantage on him when he's off stage but that's so difficult vs a good fox that... yeah.

You can get out of the infinite with dair sometimes. Idk if it was frame perfect though.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

There really needs to be a "Please read the forum and stop posting stuff you learned after a week of playing" sticky. This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Blanc]

Melee =/= sm4sh, dont come into boards giving false information

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Like, this is a good beginner's guide in the sense that a bad player can pick up on a lot of this stuff and then get better once he/she starts realizing 80% of it doesn't make any sense or have practical usage.

 

[guedes the brawler]

Like, this is a good beginner's guide in the sense that a bad player can pick up on a lot of this stuff and then get better once he/she starts realizing 80% of it doesn't make any sense or have practical usage.

you should really work on toning down the jerkass levels, bro. Maybe actually posting why what TC said is wrong and how to improve from there instead of dropping a "lol thiz sukz bye"

 

[Mr Moosebones]

you should really work on toning down the jerkass levels, bro. Maybe actually posting why what TC said is wrong and how to improve from there instead of dropping a "lol thiz sukz bye"

You're guilty of dropping the fraudulent knowledge bombs too. Get em ouuuutta here. I'm tired of explaining why these are bad options over and over and over because people are too lazy to read the forums and the mods are too lazy to keep any sort of order. Better to be a jerkass than a dumbass.

 

[guedes the brawler]

You're guilty of dropping the fraudulent knowledge bombs too. Get em ouuuutta here. I'm tired of explaining why these are bad options over and over and over because people are too lazy to read the forums and the mods are too lazy to keep any sort of order. Better to be a jerkass than a dumbass.

yeah, sure. after your comment about side b 3 being easier to deal with because it's faster it's not like you have any credibility.

if you don't want to help our meta grow, maybe you should be the one to get out of here.

 

[divade]

I do believe one of our stickies needs to talk about the basics and tricks of each move like some of these do. There's a guide somwhere but I don't think it's linked anywhere.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

yeah, sure. after your comment about side b 3 being easier to deal with because it's faster it's not like you have any credibility.

if you don't want to help our meta grow, maybe you should be the one to get out of here.

Cool reading comprehension bro. I said it was harder to land the combo consistently because the window is fairly tight/gimmicky. Not really the same thing as what you wrote. That doesn't surprise me though.

Nothing he wrote in the OP is "helping out meta grow." It's a guide written by someone who played the character for a week or two on For Glory and figured out a bunch of stuff that works against really bad players. Parroting those findings doesn't really help anyone evolve. There's 20 threads like this already and they're all similar and they're all written by people who decided their first post in the bjr boards needed to be some sort of pseudoguide because they have everything figured out and want to make a name for themselves by being a pioneer. The game isn't brand new anymore, you can't really drop a guide that looks like it could have been written on release week and not expect flak for it. I would thank Solar for trying to help out but tbh a guide like this seems more self congratulatory than it seems helpful.

THAT SAID. Solar and everyone else, if you want to learn more about the advanced tech this character has and how to play him properly feel free to message me or Sonnet and ask to join the skype chat we've got. Lots of good info and discoveries being shared constantly. Don't want to scare any person away from learning BJr, but I'm definitely trying to scare away posts like this

 

[pikazz]

@ Mr Moosebones it sounds that there isnt any good Jr on this site except from you and Sonnet. but there is
since you think all on this site is new to Jr, why dont you write your own ultimate guide and teach them instead for scaring them away

 

[Mr Moosebones]

I never said that lol. I know there's a few good BJrs on here, Vicegrip, for example. You might be good too? I don't know who you are but I don't really care about a "who's good and who's not" pissing contest. Nowhere did I say "everyone is new" but it's very obvious from the guides that are written that the people writing those guides don't have a lot of experience.

And writing a comprehensive guide is a lot of work, especially for a character as multifaceted as BJr. I don't have the free time available to do something like that.

 

[pikazz]

please note that I wrote "sounds", cause it did sound like it, even if it werent intended.

but to be honest, I would actually love to see a guide/pointers of what you do as Jr. not as a guide but as a mindset behind him.
it would create stuff for the one that reads that mindset "oh, he does it this way and I usually do this way, should I learn it to be more tricky or can I get inspired from him? or is my way better than his?" and stuff like that

I would love to create a "mindset" of what I doing with Jr xD

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Even a mindset guide would be tricky for me to do. The issue with a character like this is sort of "the more you know the less you know." As you get further into this character you start realizing your way isn't perfect and you've actually got a ton of work to do.

 

[SOLAR]

I've played a lot of games with the character, and my advice reflects what has brought me consistent success. I am not claiming it to be ultimate theory, but I am saying that with this knowledge you can quickly improve and gain a better understanding of the character.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

I've played a lot of games with the character, and my advice reflects what has brought me consistent success. I am not claiming it to be ultimate theory, but I am saying that with this knowledge you can quickly improve and gain a better understanding of the character.

Good response. I get that.

This has made me debate actually writing a guide myself, based on the entire notebook full of notes I have of what attacks kill each character at what %s at different parts of the stage, what movement options and attacks work better than average on certain characters and what to look out for in each matchup.

 

[Blanc]

Good response. I get that.

This has actually made me debate actually writing a guide myself, based on the entire notebook full of notes I have of what attacks kill each character at what %s at different parts of the stage, what movement options and attacks work better than average on certain characters and what to look out for in each matchup.

SHARE MAN

 

[Mr Moosebones]

SHARE MAN

No.

 

[Blanc]

No.

how we gon win teams without insider knowledge mang

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Oh shi u rite.

 

[pikazz]

Good response. I get that.

This has made me debate actually writing a guide myself, based on the entire notebook full of notes I have of what attacks kill each character at what %s at different parts of the stage, what movement options and attacks work better than average on certain characters and what to look out for in each matchup.

so you decised to do it? :D would love to see that work to help out my Jr ;w;

 

[Mr Moosebones]

so you decised to do it? :D would love to see that work to help out my Jr ;w;

Started it today. Going to be incredibly in-depth though so it'll take some time.