So why is it Palutena's customs and Mii's customs aren't allowed in tourneys?

[Raijinken]

Customization, not custom specials. I'm pretty sure that he was referring to the combination of custom specials and custom equipment. Equipment could most certainly be seen as cheating, but custom specials are not nearly on the same level as equipment.

And if more recent memory serves, a loading tip suggests it as a way to cheat on Events or various Challenges, not against friends.

It's not cheating if everyone can do it.

Which is why it should be more than just Palutena and Miis.

 

[wizrad]

Hm, I think you're right on that one. My b. Either way, Mii specials are an entirely different affair than customs.

 

[Raijinken]

Hm, I think you're right on that one. My b. Either way, Mii specials are an entirely different affair than customs.

Completely agreed.

 

[piikaa]

Custom moves are custom moves. Mii fighters always use custom moves, that's just how the game works.
That being said, I still believe Mii fighters should be able to use whatever customs they feel needed; that's the premise of the character, and I believe it's completely fair. This of course obviously is just my opinion. I have no opinion on the Palutena dispute, though.

Also, doesn't this discussion already exist? We also already have the custom moveset project.. so I don't understand?


That is completely unnecessary.

I don't understand what you are talking about, that was 100% necessary.

 

[JPM_ACE]

because some people use broken custom moves. like smasher average joe, who just spams DKs custom up-b in the vgbootcamp tournaments

 

[wizrad]

Well, welcome to Smashboards.

First of all, the tournament was Smash at Xanadu, which is streamed by VGBC. Second, DK is neither Palutena nor a Mii Fighter, and thus means nothing here. There's another thread for customs on vs. off if you want to talk about that. "What's your opinion on customs post-EVO?" or something.

... I shouldn't talk about it here but Average Joe placed very well with his DK at S@X with customs off. It just so happened that no one really knew what to do against a DK with quick super armor in the air, so he won instead of getting fourth. Broken customs get patched.

 

[Foie]

I actually think a decent compromise here is to create a single "default" mii that is legal. Pure and simple. A TO can say "mii fighter is legal with only 2122 and default size" and so forth.

Miis don't exist in the default game so if we're not banning them then saying "1111 is default because it's what is pre-selected when customizing the character" is entirely arbitrary.

And if people get off their high horse they'll realize that 1111 is complete crap for every mii so they might as well be banned if relegated to that. Unfortunately this logic doesn't apply for other bad characters because they do have an actual default state.

It should be as simple as do we want 3 more viable characters playable in the game?

If the answer is yes then figure out a way to allow miis with a decent set of moves while still disallowing the ability to adjust moves based on matchups.

 

[wizrad]

I actually think a decent compromise here is to create a single "default" mii that is legal. Pure and simple. A TO can say "mii fighter is legal with only 2122 and default size" and so forth.

Miis don't exist in the default game so if we're not banning them then saying "1111 is default because it's what is pre-selected when customizing the character" is entirely arbitrary.

And if people get off their high horse they'll realize that 1111 is complete crap for every mii so they might as well be banned if relegated to that. Unfortunately this logic doesn't apply for other bad characters because they do have an actual default state.

It should be as simple as do we want 3 more viable characters playable in the game?

If the answer is yes then figure out a way to allow miis with a decent set of moves while still disallowing the ability to adjust moves based on matchups.

I agree with you, but the problem is that restricting Miis at all is still entirely arbitrary and unwarranted. The only reason we use guest Miis is because they're the only Miis available on every system without having to open the Mii Maker, otherwise size would be freed too (like if you made the Mii in-game). Also, while Brawler mains are almost entirely unified as to what's best, the others are quite split. Gunner's up B, Missiles vs Flame Pillar, Chakram vs Slash Launcher, all would cause problems that are unlikely to be completely resolved.

 

[Ajimi]

"Guests Miis only" is I think a necessary evil because of logistics. Not everyone has a 3DS, and we can't make people quit the game to create a custom Mii on Mii Maker on each setup. Guests Miis are available everywhere, all the time. (Plus the fact that players can't seriously train against every possible variation of size and weight.)

However, I think a competitive ruleset should alter game mechanics only in case of extreme necessity. (Example: how to handle sudden death.) Thus, Miis should have access to all their moves in a "customs off" environment (which is an ingame setting and not an external rule), because it is how the game works, and no particular move was proven to be ban-worthy or uncompetitive.
Those who are worried by the "fairness" of being able to "counterpick a moveset", you can say that players can only choose 1 moveset per type of Mii at the beginning of each set. I think it's a reasonable compromise for everyone. But restricting them to 1111 is completely as arbitrary as limiting them to 2222, 3333, 2131 or 3312.

Unfortunately for Palutena, she requires the custom setting to be turned on. I sympathize with her players, but I stay with the same logic (because consistency is key) : we shouldn't alter ingame mechanics. Turning customs on but allowing only Palutena's, requires to justify banning every single custom of every character, except for her. The fact that her moves are "unlocked by default" is a pretty weak argument for a massive universal ban like that. She is not special in regard to the game, contrary to Miis.

 

[BrandonTheFanGuy]

Ok so I can understand not allowing mii fighters because of the individuality of them but what if ye used guest mii a instead of a custom mii? It would be standardized and there wouldn't be any problems with weight and hitbox variables.

 

[BrandonTheFanGuy]

Oh and sorry if what I said was repetitive I did the pre emptive whatever and stated my opinion before reading. My bad!

 

[wizrad]

Yeah, everyone except extremists have accepted guest Miis as a 'necessary evil'. It's whether Miis should have access to their specials that's keeping the debate going.

 

[BrandonTheFanGuy]

When customs are allowed don't we only have certain sets? Couldn't we have 3 for each fighter?

 

[Ansou]

The problem here is that people just don't like customization (for whatever reason I find hard to grasp). If people can limit customization as much as possible, then that's what they'll do. It seems like people have already randomly decided that Custom Specials for every other character shouldn't be a part of the competitive game, so we're already very close to no customization at all.