So.. V-Cancelling??

[G13_Flux]

Idk if this has been discussed somewhere else or not, but with a recent boom (within the past couple days or something) of the discovered presence of v canceling in melee, i guess ill ask the question.. was this mechanic ported into PM from melee? like, does v canceling exist right now in PM? obviously it would have been unintentional, but i didnt know if unknown mechanics like this got ported by association with the melee environment, or if they have to be added manually as they are known.

 

[Bleck]

I'm gonna go ahead and say it doesn't, and that it would be folly to consider adding it

 

[Xermo]

there'd be no need to replicate a mechanic nobody knew existed now anyway.

 

[InfinityCollision]

V-cancelling does not exist in PM.

 

[G13_Flux]

i really dont care whether or not they added it. I was just curious if it was ported by association with the engine.

InfinityCollision what makes you 100% sure? i know a lot of things got ported directly from melee, though ive never dug through the codes myself. do you know from a coding standpoint that it definitely doesnt exist?

 

[InfinityCollision]

Quite sure. It's very easy to test for once you're aware of its existence/lack thereof.

edit: For the record, it's extremely unlikely (read: code doesn't work that way) that something like this would have been implemented "unintentionally" by the PMDT, and given the lack of awareness of this mechanic prior to yesterday we can reasonably assume the PMDT never would have implemented it to begin with. The only way it would logically exist in PM at this time is if it had carried over into vBrawl, which does not appear to be the case.

 

[JOE!]

alternatively, lets make everyone 5% heavier for the same effect

 

[Foo]

V canceling is something that you wouldn't always want to do, as it would make you easier to combo. It only would be for survival DI. Therefore, make everyone 5% heavier only when they would be killed by a move and are DIing up and in or straight to either side. kappa

 

[G13_Flux]

weight also isnt linearly related to KB so the effect of 5% weight increase wouldnt be the same as 5% velocity reduction.

 

[trash?]

yeah, it's not fair to compare v-cancels to l-cancels, v-cancels actually hold its niche as a good advanced tech due to the fact that it's not raw-reactable, and you lose any other way to tech for 40 frames (because it still operates in the same tech lockout window as if you were to tech on the ground to get back up), meaning you have to know you're both getting hit in the air, and you also know that there's no better options to work with. it's an extra option, having an extra option is good tech

idk if it should be in PM tho, I don't think the PMDT would want to mess with their fine-tuned kill %s on characters just to perfect the 1:1 engine aspect

 

[Shellfire]

I had mentioned why I hate it on Facebook. Outside of a controlled situation (which is almost the total opposite of an actual game) there is no practical way to tell if you did it correctly and no way of telling if it actually helped anything because there is no humanly perceptible cue that indicates a successful V-cancel. We don't need every tech melee has.

 

[GaretHax]

i really dont care whether or not they added it. I was just curious if it was ported by association with the engine.

InfinityCollision what makes you 100% sure? i know a lot of things got ported directly from melee, though ive never dug through the codes myself. do you know from a coding standpoint that it definitely doesnt exist?

Just to nip this in the bud, the way you use the term ported here insinuates that you feel they simply picked up the parts of melee that they wanted and then dropped them into brawl as-is.
That's not really how coding would work for the PMDT, what ported really means for them is that a group of people spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours, meticulously studying every little aspect of Melee's engine and once finished desperately struggled to find ways to implement them in a radically different environment using what limited and ineffective tools they had on hand.

 

[G13_Flux]

Just to nip this in the bud, the way you use the term ported here insinuates that you feel they simply picked up the parts of melee that they wanted and then dropped them into brawl as-is.
That's not really how coding would work for the PMDT, what ported really means for them is that a group of people spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours, meticulously studying every little aspect of Melee's engine and once finished desperately struggled to find ways to implement them in a radically different environment using what limited and ineffective tools they had on hand.

in terms of coding, there are aspects of the game that the developers can look into and simply "copy and paste." This very much applies to many characters physics attributes and frame data, as well as certain equations that dictate how the engine functions. in certain cases like these, you would see equations built into the coding for melee, and instead of writing out an equation, loop, or function straight from scratch, you would just use the fact that its already written in the game youre studying.

in terms of the specific use of the word "ported," this is a word that has very frequently been used by the developers to defend the fact that certain gameplay mechanics/stats are the same as melee. if anything, their usage of the word would imply that certain things were, in essence, copied and pasted, instead of tediously written out from scratch.

Additionally, I hope with the abundance of my questions in my posts youre not thinking that im assuming or implying anything. They are questions for a reason, and I am not implying that I have enough assembly experience to assume how they pieced together the game, or how a lot of details of the games architecture work.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Besides I asked one of the members on the reddit ama, he said it's not likely your going to see V Canceling implemented

 

[Bazkip]

in terms of coding, there are aspects of the game that the developers can look into and simply "copy and paste." This very much applies to many characters physics attributes and frame data, as well as certain equations that dictate how the engine functions. in certain cases like these, you would see equations built into the coding for melee, and instead of writing out an equation, loop, or function straight from scratch, you would just use the fact that its already written in the game youre studying.

in terms of the specific use of the word "ported," this is a word that has very frequently been used by the developers to defend the fact that certain gameplay mechanics/stats are the same as melee. if anything, their usage of the word would imply that certain things were, in essence, copied and pasted, instead of tediously written out from scratch.

Additionally, I hope with the abundance of my questions in my posts youre not thinking that im assuming or implying anything. They are questions for a reason, and I am not implying that I have enough assembly experience to assume how they pieced together the game, or how a lot of details of the games architecture work.

This is nice and all but the Smash community doesn't have access to the Melee source code.

 

[Scribe]

I'd say auto V-canceling could be a thing, and would be ideal in comparison to manual v-canceling like in Melee. i.e. either knockback is reduced by 5% when V-canceling would be applicable, or knockback in situations where you couldn't V-cancel would have sort of an inverted V-cancel, with knockback being 105.26% (Or even just 105%) what it is normally.

However, I honestly don't think Project M needs to be 1:1 with Melee (I mean, it already has some Brawl tech), and can not only afford to streamline and build upon what Melee established, but I'd argue it needs to do so to survive.

 

[trash?]

auto v-cancelling would literally just mean taking less knockback in the air, though, and we've already sort of established that v-cancelling isn't like l-cancelling in respect to arbitration because you are losing other options by trying to use it

 

[SOJ]

There are way more intuitive ways of making characters live longer if that's a problem we need to address (such as buffing weights). V-Cancelling is a poorly designed mechanic (if it even was designed), and does not belong in Project M.

 

[wiiztec]

That's not at all an alternate reality lol