So oddly enough Dark Pit is walking the same path as Ganondorf.

[Ragna22]

In Melee, Ganondorf made his debut in the Smash series but he first appeared as a Falcon clone when there's more they could've done using his sword, but he doesn't use the sword in battle at all instead it's only in a victory animation, his silhouette when you unlock him, and his character art outside of the character select screen.

Dark Pit despite being literally a clone of Pit, seems to be going through the exact same thing, he debuts as a clone of Pit move set qise even though there's a lot they could've done to make him different by letting him use the Dark Pit staff but just like Ganondorf in Melee, he doesn't use it in battle, but it's in a victory animation and his character art and his final smash of course.

I honestly just find this very interesting, I'm perfectly fine with how Dark Pit turned out, he's one of my mains in fact but still I think it's interesting that these two characters went through exactly the same process even though Ganon has nothing to do with F-Zero meanwhile Dark Pit is in the same franchise as Pit.

 

[LancerStaff]

You could say that, but I find him more useful the way he is. It's nice to have a counterpick character that doesn't require learning an entire character for.

 

[Ffamran]

This probably explains why he has his Dark Pit Staff for his concept art... It's Ganondorf's sword all over again. So much potential. Well, let's hope he gets more animation and property changes in the next game like what happened to Brawl. Similar movesets; different play styles.

 

[LancerStaff]

This probably explains why he has his Dark Pit Staff for his concept art... It's Ganondorf's sword all over again. So much potential. Well, let's hope he gets more animation and property changes in the next game like what happened to Brawl. Similar movesets; different play styles.

But then I won't be able to main both...

 

[Ffamran]

But then I won't be able to main both...

Why's that? Captain Falcon is more combo-heavy and rush-down/pressuring while Ganondorf is more punish/counter and strong hits. That said, you can transfer similar combos from both. Both their Bairs, Dairs, and Uairs are similar in function along with their Neutral Specials and Side Smashes. Captain Falcon will be able to pull off more combos and continue to keep pressure on his opponent, but a combo from Ganondorf will be more powerful. I up my pace with Captain Falcon and slow down with Ganondorf. It's not a big deal.

Falco and Fox can be played similarly, but their strengths are different - Wolf is much more different. Same with Toon Link and Link. Hell, Roy and Marth were like day and night despite being clones, but you can still play well with the other if you're familiar with one of them.

 

[LancerStaff]

Why's that? Captain Falcon is more combo-heavy and rush-down/pressuring while Ganondorf is more punish/counter and strong hits. That said, you can transfer similar combos from both. Both their Bairs, Dairs, and Uairs are similar in function along with their Neutral Specials and Side Smashes. Captain Falcon will be able to pull off more combos and continue to keep pressure on his opponent, but a combo from Ganondorf will be more powerful. I up my pace with Captain Falcon and slow down with Ganondorf. It's not a big deal.

Falco and Fox can be played similarly, but their strengths are different - Wolf is much more different. Same with Toon Link and Link. Hell, Roy and Marth were like day and night despite being clones, but you can still play well with the other if you're familiar with one of them.

Dark Pit is a different case... He's the biggest clone in Smash history. Only four moves have any differences, and one's a Final Smash.

 

[Ffamran]

Dark Pit is a different case... He's the biggest clone in Smash history. Only four moves have any differences, and one's a Final Smash.

Nah, that title goes to Lucina who's slightly shorter and has no sweet-spots except for one move. Dark Pit at least has the courtesy of having a different Final Smash, different Side Special, and different properties while being similar compared to "Oh, it's a new character who's just Marth, but female and without tippers." Dr. Mario became a semi-clone due to Mario's new moveset in Brawl.

Lucina had so much potential along with Dark Pit and Ganondorf. What a freaking waste... Hell, we can argue that Toon Link should have used unique stuff from Wind Waker, Minish Cap, Spirit Tracks, Phantom Hourglass, and Four Swords Adventures like the Deku Leaf, Skull Hammer, Grappling Hook, etc.

 

[LancerStaff]

Nah, that title goes to Lucina who's slightly shorter and has no sweet-spots except for one move. Dark Pit at least has the courtesy of having a different Final Smash, different Side Special, and different properties while being similar compared to "Oh, it's a new character who's just Marth, but female and without tippers." Dr. Mario became a semi-clone due to Mario's new moveset in Brawl.

Lucina had so much potential along with Dark Pit and Ganondorf. What a freaking waste... Hell, we can argue that Toon Link should have used unique stuff from Wind Waker, Minish Cap, Spirit Tracks, Phantom Hourglass, and Four Swords Adventures like the Deku Leaf, Skull Hammer, Grappling Hook, etc.

Lucina has different damage on every attack. Doc has a completely different Dspecial and a few gimmick moves. DP literally has only four moves with any kind of differences at all.

 

[Ffamran]

Lucina has different damage on every attack. Doc has a completely different Dspecial and a few gimmick moves. DP literally has only four moves with any kind of differences at all.

Anywhere I can find that data? Only one freaking wiki, Smashpedia has Dark Pit's damage percentages while Pit's is just null and void...

 

[Ragna22]

What have I done? Lol but seriously though, I personally feel more of a difference between Pit/DP than Marth/Lucina now granted I don't use Marth very often but from what I've played of him and Lucina, I didn't feel any differences, i felt and saw the differences with Dark Pit, his forward special launches player horizontal instead of Pit's vertical, DP has way less control of his arrows than Pit does ect.

 

[LancerStaff]

Anywhere I can find that data? Only one freaking wiki, Smashpedia has Dark Pit's damage percentages while Pit's is just null and void...

I normally don't like to advertise, but I've made an actual guide for the two of them on the Pit boards. http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...nd-technique-guide-all-important-ko-s.372354/

And just so you know it isn't my bias, another user found the damage data. I retested it of course, but he hasn't objected to what I've written.

I have the damage, KO%s, and even a few techniques. I haven't had much time to update it though, so it's missing a few things. Namely DP's Ftilt's greatly weaker knockback. I can, without a doubt, say that their frame data and damage is entirely the same outside of the different specials.

 

[Kinslayer]

Nah, that title goes to Lucina who's slightly shorter and has no sweet-spots except for one move. Dark Pit at least has the courtesy of having a different Final Smash, different Side Special, and different properties while being similar compared to "Oh, it's a new character who's just Marth, but female and without tippers." Dr. Mario became a semi-clone due to Mario's new moveset in Brawl.

Lucina had so much potential along with Dark Pit and Ganondorf. What a freaking waste... Hell, we can argue that Toon Link should have used unique stuff from Wind Waker, Minish Cap, Spirit Tracks, Phantom Hourglass, and Four Swords Adventures like the Deku Leaf, Skull Hammer, Grappling Hook, etc.

Lucina is far different from Marth in move damage, play styles, and spacing. Every move she has is different than Marth's in damage percentage and of course range. You may not think of it but tipper mechanics alone make them very diverse in the way they can and can't be played. Dark pit, as previously stated is the biggest clone there is. Hosting same range, properties, priority, etc on next to everything.

 

[Ffamran]

Lucina is far different from Marth in move damage, play styles, and spacing. Every move she has is different than Marth's in damage percentage and of course range. You may not think of it but tipper mechanics alone make them very diverse in the way they can and can't be played. Dark pit, as previously stated is the biggest clone there is. Hosting same range, properties, priority, etc on next to everything.

In terms of creation, Lucina is more of a Melee clone that pretty much shares everything except for stuff like models, victory animations, and taunts. Play style-wise, she's different like how the clones were in Melee. Dark Pit at least has a different Side Special and Final Smash along with different taunts and victory animations, but since he's Pit's literal clone, he shares a model. So, in play style, he's identical, but creation-wise, he's less cloney compared to Lucina whose moves are programmed differently.

Welcome to the new age with old (style) clones: Lucina and Dr. Mario, and new (style) clones: Dark Pit. While I don't like clones, I would rather have Melee style clones who are played differently even if they shared every single move.

 

[LancerStaff]

In terms of creation, Lucina is more of a Melee clone that pretty much shares everything except for stuff like models, victory animations, and taunts. Play style-wise, she's different like how the clones were in Melee. Dark Pit at least has a different Side Special and Final Smash along with different taunts and victory animations, but since he's Pit's literal clone, he shares a model. So, in play style, he's identical, but creation-wise, he's less cloney compared to Lucina whose moves are programmed differently.

Welcome to the new age with old (style) clones: Lucina and Dr. Mario, and new (style) clones: Dark Pit. While I don't like clones, I would rather have Melee style clones who are played differently even if they shared every single move.

Pit and Dark Pit are the only two characters that outright share moves. Which means, funnily enough, DP's unoriginality leads to a unique counterpick mechanic between the two of them.

 

[Ffamran]

Pit and Dark Pit are the only two characters that outright share moves. Which means, funnily enough, DP's unoriginality leads to a unique counterpick mechanic between the two of them.

Meh, Ryu-Ken, Kyo-Iori, and Kazuya-Heihachi-Jin-some-other-Mishima-brodude. Hopefully, Pit and Dark Pit go the route of those guys and become similar, but distinct like Ryu and Ken - Fox and Falco or Mario and Luigi,- or what I would prefer: completely different like Kyo and Iori.

 

[Chrono.]

Meh, Ryu-Ken, Kyo-Iori, and Kazuya-Heihachi-Jin-some-other-Mishima-brodude. Hopefully, Pit and Dark Pit go the route of those guys and become similar, but distinct like Ryu and Ken - Fox and Falco or Mario and Luigi,- or what I would prefer: completely different like Kyo and Iori.

I can see Dark Pit going down that road in the future. Hell, out of the clones he's the top contender for it (imo). Unfortunately, he also has the highest chances of getting cut in a future installment.

 

[Folt]

Lucina is far different from Marth in move damage, play styles, and spacing. Every move she has is different than Marth's in damage percentage and of course range. You may not think of it but tipper mechanics alone make them very diverse in the way they can and can't be played. Dark pit, as previously stated is the biggest clone there is. Hosting same range, properties, priority, etc on next to everything.

Actually, Lucina's differences only serve to make her a worse Marth and this is because she's cribbing off of a moveset designed for spacing, and this has to do with the fact that outside of tipper mechanics and shorter size (and vertical reach: Lucina's vertical reach is worse than Marth's), they are exactly the same in every other way. The good Lucina players play her like a Marth player would play Marth but has to deal with the lack of tippers in their game and what it gives Marth, giving them less kill power and more unsafe attacks in comparison.

As for Dark Pit, he at least fights with his signature weapon (which is not the staff by the way, the staff is just the most powerful weapon in his arsenal which also happens to be associated with him).

 

[Kinslayer]

Actually, Lucina's differences only serve to make her a worse Marth and this is because she's cribbing off of a moveset designed for spacing, and this has to do with the fact that outside of tipper mechanics and shorter size (and vertical reach: Lucina's vertical reach is worse than Marth's), they are exactly the same in every other way. The good Lucina players play her like a Marth player would play Marth but has to deal with the lack of tippers in their game and what it gives Marth, giving them less kill power and more unsafe attacks in comparison.

As for Dark Pit, he at least fights with his signature weapon (which is not the staff by the way, the staff is just the most powerful weapon in his arsenal which also happens to be associated with him).

I don't understand why you are quoting me when you did nothing, but say the exact same thing I said but simply expanded on it more.... You really just said the exact same thing.

 

[Folt]

I don't understand why you are quoting me when you did nothing, but say the exact same thing I said but simply expanded on it more.... You really just said the exact same thing.

What I was getting at is that Lucina and Marth do not play differently at all. At most, Marth can afford to play more aggressively than Lucina can because the tipper mechanic makes his options safer, but Lucina does not get anything to compensate for this, and some of her hit confirms have a higher chance of whiffing than Marth's.