So I have this friend who likes to shine-spike...

[Sumodude-S51]

...And he is getting pretty good at it. Too good, actually. With Lucas' low traction, it's so easy for him to shine me off-stage, then shine-spike me as I'm trying to recover. It's an uphill battle when I play against his Fox, and my entire thought process shifts to "don't get hit off-stage, omg don't get hit off-stage."

I'm trying to improve my game as a whole, and I can definitely feel my tech skill and combos getting better and better. But that improvement so far doesn't really seem to matter against this particular Fox, and I always have to counterpick with Kirby or Meta Knight in order to stand a chance. But I would rather not have to do that.

I've heard the Fox match-up is supposed to be rather even, if rather volatile, but how do I fight a particularly patient, calculated, gimp-happy Fox? What are some good things to keep in mind when recovering?

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Fox moves really fast so it's kinda hard to actually prevent him from doing it 100% of the time even with mixing up your recovery, but that's the biggest thing. When recovering with your Tether you should rarely reel in immediately or at all in my opinion. I'm not so sure how well Tether will work if you cancel with Magnet since there will be nerfs of some extent, but even just dropping with Down and then doing Up B as a Mix-up will help.

Don't hesitate with PK Thunder, choose an angle and immediately go for it because it isn't too difficult for Fox to beat out PKT. Honestly, the more I play against Fox the more I hate it, a lot can go wrong and it can happen very quickly so remember to stay on your toes, keep your options in mind at all times, and do your best to avoid ****ing up.

 

[Kipcom]

If you get knocked off the stage by a shine, I already know your first instinct is probably to jump as fast as you can and try to reel the ledge, but the Fox player is really only expecting that.

What I'd recommend you do as a mixup is after sliding off the stage, use magnet to stall yourself a few times. They'll have expected you to jump back up to the ledge, but if you let yourself drop down a bit and then magnet stall, they can't shine spike you unless they actually anticipate this. Once they're forced to jump back to the ledge or stage, that's your chance to tether.

I'm not so sure how well Tether will work if you cancel with Magnet since there will be nerfs of some extent.

Well the thing is, we'll still be able to Magnet after tethering the ledge, the only issues are whether the magnet will still be able to stall at that point and that we'll be forced to Up B after the magnet as opposed to getting another tether. Who knows, it might still be a bit useful, or they just might make it extremely awful and no longer viable for recovery...

 

[Sumodude-S51]

Fox moves really fast so it's kinda hard to actually prevent him from doing it 100% of the time even with mixing up your recovery, but that's the biggest thing. When recovering with your Tether you should rarely reel in immediately or at all in my opinion. I'm not so sure how well Tether will work if you cancel with Magnet since there will be nerfs of some extent, but even just dropping with Down and then doing Up B as a Mix-up will help.

Don't hesitate with PK Thunder, choose an angle and immediately go for it because it isn't too difficult for Fox to beat out PKT. Honestly, the more I play against Fox the more I hate it, a lot can go wrong and it can happen very quickly so remember to stay on your toes, keep your options in mind at all times, and do your best to avoid ****ing up.

Yeah, I had a feeling the best advice would be "don't mess up." Thanks, though. It doesn't seem impossible to beat him, as I can combo him into oblivion, but one mistake on my part usually means death. So I just gotta be perfect. Simple, really.

Still, I'm definitely going to practice mixing up my ledge approach more. Sometimes I don't even need to go for the ledge and can land on stage with something like a magnet-stall to DJC aerial.

What I'd recommend you do as a mixup is after sliding off the stage, use magnet to stall yourself a few times. They'll have expected you to jump back up to the ledge, but if you let yourself drop down a bit and then magnet stall, they can't shine spike you unless they actually anticipate this. Once they're forced to jump back to the ledge or stage, that's your chance to tether.

Saving my double jump is something I've been working on in general, and it is a very good habit I'm happy to have developed. However, I do tend to panic sometimes when I'm below the stage against Fox because I know the shine is coming. He goes pretty deep for them sometimes, and can get it in my head that unless I'm recovering high, I'm never safe...

But thank you. Keeping a calm outlook always knowing my options when I'm in a tight situation is something that just might have to come with more experience.

 

[Badge]

Also note that you can flick your Control-Stick down to instantly grab the ledge when being knocked off by shine from most positions. (Initiate a fastfall as soon as possible, but let go of the stick instantly to be able to grab the ledge)