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So...I have ranked all the different Uairs into a tier list

WiFi

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Sheik's Nair isn't Frame 7, according to Kurogane Hammer, its actually Frame 3, and sets up into most of Sheik's combos. It lasts from Frame 3-30 with an FAF of 50, autocancels on Frame 31, meaning it also ends directly at the end of Sheik's shorthop animation, causing no lag. It also only has 10 frames of landing lag without the easy autocancel. It launches at the Sakurai angle as well. Its easily the best sex kick.
 

MarioManTAW

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Sheik's Nair isn't Frame 7, according to Kurogane Hammer, its actually Frame 3, and sets up into most of Sheik's combos. It lasts from Frame 3-30 with an FAF of 50, autocancels on Frame 31, meaning it also ends directly at the end of Sheik's shorthop animation, causing no lag. It also only has 10 frames of landing lag without the easy autocancel. It launches at the Sakurai angle as well. Its easily the best sex kick.
I know it's frame 3, but as an out of shield option, you have to add in the jumpsquat frames, in her case 4. Also, does the strong hit combo into anything? If not, it's nowhere near as effective OoS.
 

WiFi

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Strong hit combos into Bouncing Fish, Needles, and it can reset neutral. And Sheik has the second best neutral in the game, after Diddy.

Edit: It is the fastest aerial OoS, aside from Sheik's Fair, but ever since the nerf, Nair has been better. It also works as a combo breaker, as it has a much larger hitbox than Luigi's Nair, and Weak Nair is the best weak Nair in the game. Staling the move is actually beneficial, unlike other moves, as the less damage and knockback can extend Sheik's combos. Also, a retreating Nair OoS is safe on shield (Depends on the character, but it works on all but the very fastest). Percentages are very tight, but the combos it leads into can deal 20%+ damage, and it's the best "get off me" move in the game. As I said before, Sheik has good aerials, but her Nair is the best. ESAM and Zero both consider it to be one of the top 10 moves in the game, and they are famous for not agreeing on everything. Although using that particular fact is a weak argument, it does show that top players view Nair favorably. Also this: https://imgur.com/P3z0EL6
 
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MarioManTAW

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Strong hit combos into Bouncing Fish, Needles, and it can reset neutral. And Sheik has the second best neutral in the game, after Diddy.

Edit: It is the fastest aerial OoS, aside from Sheik's Fair, but ever since the nerf, Nair has been better. It also works as a combo breaker, as it has a much larger hitbox than Luigi's Nair, and Weak Nair is the best weak Nair in the game. Staling the move is actually beneficial, unlike other moves, as the less damage and knockback can extend Sheik's combos. Also, a retreating Nair OoS is safe on shield (Depends on the character, but it works on all but the very fastest). Percentages are very tight, but the combos it leads into can deal 20%+ damage, and it's the best "get off me" move in the game. As I said before, Sheik has good aerials, but her Nair is the best. ESAM and Zero both consider it to be one of the top 10 moves in the game, and they are famous for not agreeing on everything. Although using that particular fact is a weak argument, it does show that top players view Nair favorably. Also this: https://imgur.com/P3z0EL6
Okay, I think I see your point now.
(BTW, :4sheik:'s nair is technically tied for fastest OoS aerial with :4littlemac::4pikachu:'s nairs)
 

MERPIS

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Strong hit combos into Bouncing Fish, Needles, and it can reset neutral. And Sheik has the second best neutral in the game, after Diddy.

Edit: It is the fastest aerial OoS, aside from Sheik's Fair, but ever since the nerf, Nair has been better. It also works as a combo breaker, as it has a much larger hitbox than Luigi's Nair, and Weak Nair is the best weak Nair in the game. Staling the move is actually beneficial, unlike other moves, as the less damage and knockback can extend Sheik's combos. Also, a retreating Nair OoS is safe on shield (Depends on the character, but it works on all but the very fastest). Percentages are very tight, but the combos it leads into can deal 20%+ damage, and it's the best "get off me" move in the game. As I said before, Sheik has good aerials, but her Nair is the best. ESAM and Zero both consider it to be one of the top 10 moves in the game, and they are famous for not agreeing on everything. Although using that particular fact is a weak argument, it does show that top players view Nair favorably. Also this: https://imgur.com/P3z0EL6
Luigi is wack
 

WiFi

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Okay, I think I see your point now.
(BTW, :4sheik:'s nair is technically tied for fastest OoS aerial with :4littlemac::4pikachu:'s nairs)
True, but Mac's Nar is next-to useless, and Pika's Nair doesn't have as much range as Sheik's Nair, due to Sheik's Nair hitbox covering her entire leg, and half her foot. Luigi's Nair is better for combo breaking, but Sheik's is better for pretty much everything else. I play Sheik a lot, and Nair is one of the most spammable, easy moves to use in the game. Most people don't know what to do with it.
 

DeNikSSB

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It might be Sheik's best OoS option, but it definitely isn't the best in the game :p
 

Magnemite

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i'm impressed, you managed to come up with only blatantly incorrect things

-frame 7 is not slow
- it's safe on shield landing if spaced properly. even if it wasn't this wouldn't matter since its primary use is not as a landing aerial (but it's also pretty good at this because landing nair combos into stuff at most percents including into kills)
-the hitbox has considerable disjoint all around gnw

and let's just ignore the fact that it does 17 damage, combos into itself, combos out of dthrow until dthrow upair will kill, can chaingrab out of dthrow, and covers a lot of space which combined with gnw's air mobility, high damage, and good angle make it a great juggling move

try to have a clue what you're talking about before making something like this please. at the very least stop making up misinformation and add an "i don't know" category,
 

WiFi

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1: It's slow
2: Its unsafe
3: It's short ranged

here I'll throw in another one for ya
4: It's utter crap compared to Sheik's nair and Clouds nair
It has really bad hitboxes, comparable to Wario's Nair, but it does deal a staggering amount of damage if it lands right.

Edit: I'd be quite hesitant to call any of GnW's aerials "bad". All of his aerials have a reasonable disjoint, but they are only good because GnW has fantastic throws.
 
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MERPIS

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i'm impressed, you managed to come up with only blatantly incorrect things

-frame 7 is not slow
- it's safe on shield landing if spaced properly. even if it wasn't this wouldn't matter since its primary use is not as a landing aerial (but it's also pretty good at this because landing nair combos into stuff at most percents including into kills)
-the hitbox has considerable disjoint all around gnw

and let's just ignore the fact that it does 17 damage, combos into itself, combos out of dthrow until dthrow upair will kill, can chaingrab out of dthrow, and covers a lot of space which combined with gnw's air mobility, high damage, and good angle make it a great juggling move

try to have a clue what you're talking about before making something like this please. at the very least stop making up misinformation and add an "i don't know" category,
Compared to Sheik and Cloud's nair, frame 7 is slow as molasses, combined with a 5 frame jumpsquat, ye good luck punishing anything out of shield.
The hitboxes are absolute garbage, which apparently you don't know, judging by how steamed you're getting
"Disjoint" Ya okay if you count itty bitty hitboxes that are easily avoided, disjoints
I love how you say "well it combos out of his dthrow" Even though I blatently said that I judged the moves as stand alone moves, I'm not assessing his dthrow, I'm assessing his nair, if you read my post you would understand that.
 

WiFi

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Fox's Nair is a good OoS option. It's a downgraded Sheik Nair, but, it combos into the Vortex if done right.

Edit: Also, all OoS options are bad compared to the Banana. Diddy and Little Mac have the fastest OoS options, with Banana at point blank being close to instant while Little Mac's Up-B coming out at a cool Frame 3, one frame faster than Witch Twist. Witch Twist is still better than Mac's Up-B for obvious reasons. Banana though, when Diddy holds a Banana in shield, he's almost completely safe.

As for Nair's OoS, some of the best are: Cloud's, Sheik's, Fox's, Pikachu's, Marth's, and Mewtwo's.
 
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Magnemite

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??? do you think a nair can only be good if it's an oos option or something? who cares if it's a good oos option. that's not how the move is supposed to work. is bayonetta's fair a bad fair because it's not a good oos option?

https://gfycat.com/AdolescentMarriedAlligatorgar

yeah you're right, this covers no space at all. totally comparable to wario's nair which doesn't even extend throughout his body. before you say "but the individual hitboxes are small!!!!!!", that's irrelevant because it's not possible for characters to magically slip between the hitboxes, so it essentially covers the whole area around him to the edge of the hitboxes. it's also very deceptively vertically disjointed and can cleanly beat moves like late cloud dair from above if timed and spaced properly. the thing that may seem to be an issue at first is the fact that the hitboxes are only active for one frame each, but the gaps between them (4 frames) are too small to matter in the vast majority of scenarios (again a character will not be able to move through the space that this move occupies in 4 frames), and the fact that it's still active 15 frames after it starts is also a good thing. finally, gnw has very good air speed and air accel making it much easier to juggle people with it than if another character had the same move.
 

MERPIS

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??? do you think a nair can only be good if it's an oos option or something? who cares if it's a good oos option. that's not how the move is supposed to work. is bayonetta's fair a bad fair because it's not a good oos option?

https://gfycat.com/AdolescentMarriedAlligatorgar

yeah you're right, this covers no space at all. totally comparable to wario's nair which doesn't even extend throughout his body. before you say "but the individual hitboxes are small!!!!!!", that's irrelevant because it's not possible for characters to magically slip between the hitboxes, so it essentially covers the whole area around him to the edge of the hitboxes. it's also very deceptively vertically disjointed and can cleanly beat moves like late cloud dair from above if timed and spaced properly. the thing that may seem to be an issue at first is the fact that the hitboxes are only active for one frame each, but the gaps between them (4 frames) are too small to matter in the vast majority of scenarios (again a character will not be able to move through the space that this move occupies in 4 frames), and the fact that it's still active 15 frames after it starts is also a good thing. finally, gnw has very good air speed and air accel making it much easier to juggle people with it than if another character had the same move.
k
 

WiFi

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??? do you think a nair can only be good if it's an oos option or something? who cares if it's a good oos option. that's not how the move is supposed to work. is bayonetta's fair a bad fair because it's not a good oos option?

https://gfycat.com/AdolescentMarriedAlligatorgar

yeah you're right, this covers no space at all. totally comparable to wario's nair which doesn't even extend throughout his body. before you say "but the individual hitboxes are small!!!!!!", that's irrelevant because it's not possible for characters to magically slip between the hitboxes, so it essentially covers the whole area around him to the edge of the hitboxes. it's also very deceptively vertically disjointed and can cleanly beat moves like late cloud dair from above if timed and spaced properly. the thing that may seem to be an issue at first is the fact that the hitboxes are only active for one frame each, but the gaps between them (4 frames) are too small to matter in the vast majority of scenarios (again a character will not be able to move through the space that this move occupies in 4 frames), and the fact that it's still active 15 frames after it starts is also a good thing. finally, gnw has very good air speed and air accel making it much easier to juggle people with it than if another character had the same move.
But why go all of that trouble when GnW's other aerials are (mostly) better plus some of his moves (Up-B, D-tilt, Up-tilt, Up-Smash) are better OoS. Also, what you are describing takes a decent amount of skill involved, which makes your argument more of a "potential argument" logical fallacy. Yes, GnW's Nair is a good aerial. But is it as good in all situations as some other Nairs (namely Sheik, Luigi, and Cloud), no.
 

Magnemite

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i just said it was not good oos and that that was irrelevant. why is everyone in this thread so focused on nairing oos?

i don't even get what this skill argument is supposed to mean? no you can't mash nair randomly over and over again and have it work. that's not how smash works. also, news flash, a move doesn't have to be good at everything to be good. none of those moves are good juggle moves, for example.
 

MERPIS

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i just said it was not good oos and that that was irrelevant. why is everyone in this thread so focused on nairing oos?

i don't even get what this skill argument is supposed to mean? no you can't mash nair randomly over and over again and have it work. that's not how smash works. also, news flash, a move doesn't have to be good at everything to be good. none of those moves are good juggle moves, for example.
take a load off, you seem a little angery
 

WiFi

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Yeah, calm down dude. Everything we say here is mostly subjective. You have your opinions, and we have ours.
 
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Kofu

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But why go all of that trouble when GnW's other aerials are (mostly) better plus some of his moves (Up-B, D-tilt, Up-tilt, Up-Smash) are better OoS. Also, what you are describing takes a decent amount of skill involved, which makes your argument more of a "potential argument" logical fallacy. Yes, GnW's Nair is a good aerial. But is it as good in all situations as some other Nairs (namely Sheik, Luigi, and Cloud), no.
It's not as much of a multi-purpose aerial as the ones you named, no, but it is surprisingly flexible in its uses. It's a great combo tool because of its damage and coverage, can be used as a landing mixup, and can lead into grab and into sweetspot DSmash to kill. It's better than all of his aerials except for BAir (and if it autocanceled like in Brawl it would be better than that, too). It's not the easiest aerial to use, but it's a solid B-tier NAir.
 

ARGHETH

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Having Corrin's jab in the same tier as Rosa, Falcon, and the F1 jabs just feels wrong. Thing's good, but not that good.
 

WiFi

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I actually mostly agree with the Bair and the Jab tier lists. However, you are underselling Pika's Bair quite a bit. It can drag people down just like Fox's Fair, and is an incredible edgeguarding tool.

Bayonetta's Fair is nowhere near as good as Sheik or Mewtwo's. Greninja's Fair belongs in C-tier, it's not as good as his other aerials and while disjointed, all the other Fairs in the A-tier are better, with the exception of Wario. Wario has the longest jumpsquat frames in the game, so while his Fair is frame 5 while in the air, it has a tiny hitbox and is only a situational move. If you watch Gluttony or Nasubi, you don't see them throwing out Fair as much as his other aerials.
 

Kofu

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I actually mostly agree with the Bair and the Jab tier lists. However, you are underselling Pika's Bair quite a bit. It can drag people down just like Fox's Fair, and is an incredible edgeguarding tool.

Bayonetta's Fair is nowhere near as good as Sheik or Mewtwo's. Greninja's Fair belongs in C-tier, it's not as good as his other aerials and while disjointed, all the other Fairs in the A-tier are better, with the exception of Wario. Wario has the longest jumpsquat frames in the game, so while his Fair is frame 5 while in the air, it has a tiny hitbox and is only a situational move. If you watch Gluttony or Nasubi, you don't see them throwing out Fair as much as his other aerials.
Bayonetta's FAir is disgusting, IDK if it belongs a tier above the other great FAirs (same with Mewtwo honestly) but it's a fantastic move.

Also Wario's jumpsquat is only a mediocre frame 6, not sure why you think it's super high
 

WiFi

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Bayonetta's Fair is overrated. It's only purpose is to aid in her combos, nobody uses more than the first hit. I could name 7 Forward Aerials that are better.

Edit: It's not Wario's jumpsquat that makes his Fair mediocre, it's his poor hitboxes. I wouldn't call his Fair bad, but it's certainly not A-tier.

Double edit: If this were Pre-patch Sheik, she would have her own little area at the top. That old Fair was ridiculous.
 
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Kofu

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Bayonetta's Fair is overrated. It's only purpose is to aid in her combos, nobody uses more than the first hit. I could name 7 Forward Aerials that are better.

Edit: It's not Wario's jumpsquat that makes his Fair mediocre, it's his poor hitboxes. I wouldn't call his Fair bad, but it's certainly not A-tier.

Double edit: If this were Pre-patch Sheik, she would have her own little area at the top. That old Fair was ridiculous.
Bayonetta's whole shtick is combos so it's a fantastic move. The hitboxes on it are beyond ridiculous too, if the hitboxes were more tame I wouldn't be advocating for it like I am. It's probably more A-tier worthy but it's a great move.
 

WiFi

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A-tier worthy, not S-tier worthy. Diddy Kong's Fair should be S-tier though. SH Fair is Diddy's best aerial. It's stupidly long ranged and is the best ledgetrapping aerial. Put a Banana down by the ledge and SH Fair covers all options.
 

J0eyboi

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Oh boy here goes. Keep in mind I don't exactly know about EVERY nair. But I tried anyways. Same rules as the last. Nairs are treated as individual moves.

yes, I know, double posting or whatever
Roy's Nair should be, at worst, a tier under Marth's, as should Ike's and especially Shulk's. Also, while Pit's has a terrible hitbox, it's at least C tier.
Bairs:
View attachment 138946

Fairs:
View attachment 138950

Jabs:
View attachment 138951
There we go, what should I do next?
Shulk's bair is better than Mewtwo's, the former should be at least B-tier, and the latter C-tier. Fox's fair should not be A-tier just because of jank, it's a terrible move in every other situation. Cloud's fair should also not be A-tier. Roy, Zelda, and probably Ike's jabs should be A-tier, Corrin's should not.

Also do a dtilt tier list.

Also also, you forgot to include Mii Gunner's fair in the "what is this" category
 
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WiFi

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I was rather bored so I decided to do a D-smash tier list
View attachment 139112
Fox's D-smash is D-tier. *cough*. Comes out Frame 6 with leg intangibility. How is that bad?
Roy's Nair should be, at worst, a tier under Marth's, as should Ike's and especially Shulk's. Also, while Pit's has a terrible hitbox, it's at least C tier.

Shulk's bair is better than Mewtwo's, the former should be at least B-tier, and the latter C-tier. Fox's fair should not be A-tier just because of jank, it's a terrible move in every other situation. Cloud's fair should also not be A-tier. Roy, Zelda, and probably Ike's jabs should be A-tier, Corrin's should not.

Also do a dtilt tier list.

Also also, you forgot to include Mii Gunner's fair in the "what is this" category
Fox's Fair isn't terrible, it combos out of a lot of things and deals a lot of damage. It also leads into some other stuff but that's stuff us Fox mains keep secret. It not terrible, but definitely not A-tier. I'd put it at the bottom of B-tier. Shulk's Bair is alright, I'd say it not better than M2's Bair, but it isn't worse either.
 

J0eyboi

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Shulk's Bair is alright, I'd say it not better than M2's Bair, but it isn't worse either.
What exactly is M2's bair useful for? I assume something, if you think it's as good as Shulk's, but I just don't see it. It's frame 13, doesn't combo nearly as well as the rest of his kit, extends his hurtbox for a fair while (though nowhere near as drastically as in Melee), and it's difficult to even hit with in the neutral, as it whiffs on most grounded opponents. In a vacuum, it looks okay, but short of ledgetrumps, I can't imagine a single situation where I'd want to use it.
 

MERPIS

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Fox's D-smash is D-tier. *cough*. Comes out Frame 6 with leg intangibility. How is that bad?
endlag

What exactly is M2's bair useful for? I assume something, if you think it's as good as Shulk's, but I just don't see it. It's frame 13, doesn't combo nearly as well as the rest of his kit, extends his hurtbox for a fair while (though nowhere near as drastically as in Melee), and it's difficult to even hit with in the neutral, as it whiffs on most grounded opponents. In a vacuum, it looks okay, but short of ledgetrumps, I can't imagine a single situation where I'd want to use it.
Its great for combos out of a utilt or its also great for offstage kills and gimping since its basically a giant sweeping hitbox that hits almost everywhere behind mewtwo.
Also also, you forgot to include Mii Gunner's fair in the "what is this" category
Miis are trash and that will never change unless they, along with their customs, were legal again.
 
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