so hows everyone feeling about the official teir list???

[lui3k]

So it's been a few days since the official teir list came out just wondering how you guys feel about Lucas's placement.

I wasn't expecting him to be so far down however it's kind of sad to see him all the way down there I really believe in the character and I do pretty good with him. Makes me wonder if he really is that bad changing characters should make me better? Right? Not going to lie I tried it and I just came right back I just like the way he plays.

Anyways what's you guys thoughts on this?

 

[Suzukipot]

The only thing that baffles me about it is how Ness is high tier but Lucas is low tier. Isn't it generally agreed upon that Ness and Lucas are more or less moveset clones? That's why I don't understand Lucas being as far down as he is.

 

[JohnnyB]

Don't worry about tier lists (even official ones) play the Character(s) that suit you the best.

Tier lists only measure a characters tournament viability at this very moment. They change with patches and changes in the meta. It only takes one top level rep to bring a character up in the tiers.

Keep in mind that Japan rates Pika much lower (because they don't have someone like Esam), and we rate Villager much lower than them (Because we don't have Ranai). Rep is huge and Lucas has very little.

 

[lui3k]

Don't worry about tier lists (even official ones) play the Character(s) that suit you the best.

Tier lists only measure a characters tournament viability at this very moment. They change with patches and changes in the meta. It only takes one top level rep to bring a character up in the tiers.

Keep in mind that Japan rates Pika much lower (because they don't have someone like Esam), and we rate Villager much lower than them (Because we don't have Ranai). Rep is huge and Lucas has very little.

very insightful thanks for that

 

[JesterJaded]

Also keep in mind that this is just year 1 with a 58 member cast; mid tier and lower is mostly based on speculation due to lack of results. Even the top tier is wildly debated on with Ryu (arguably) not deserving 4th on the list.

Keep pushing Lucas' meta and stay determined, Motherboy will prove himself eventually.

 

[JeremyTheBlack]

Another thing is while they have some similar moves, Ness's are way easier, and chain together better, and have better frame data as well. Lucas has some of the same tools, but you need a lot more skill to get the most out of him, and that makes more room for error. other little things like Ness having a better hitbox on uair and yeah. Ness is better than Lucas so it makes sense he's above him, but I do think that Lucas is way better than the tier list says.

 

[JesterJaded]

Another thing is while they have some similar moves, Ness's are way easier, and chain together better, and have better frame data as well. Lucas has some of the same tools, but you need a lot more skill to get the most out of him, and that makes more room for error. other little things like Ness having a better hitbox on uair and yeah. Ness is better than Lucas so it makes sense he's above him, but I do think that Lucas is way better than the tier list says.

Add this to the fact that every single one of Ness' and Lucas' moves have drastically different properties and yeah, Lucas is a clone in-name-only.

 

[lui3k]

Add this to the fact that every single one of Ness' and Lucas' moves have drastically different properties and yeah, Lucas is a clone in-name-only.

true that...

they are like different versions of the "same" character

 

[A Polar Bear]

the tier list shouldn't exist yet.

 

[JesterJaded]

It's basically a glorified representation of how nobody knows what they're talking about (yet) except for the top of the ladder (except for Ryu because... why?).

 

[Login_Sinker]

I think Lucas is too low, I'd put him at B tier rather than C. I can't blame people for putting him there right now though since he has no results.

 

[Shrug]

I can understand why Lucas was rated so low. No one has put up any real results with the character. I definitely think he has potential to reach mid, or even high, tier, but he just doesn't have the results to justify putting him there right now. I have to admit that seeing him that low still surprised me.

 

[that_rock]

I think having him as a DLC character hurt him a lot seeing as though Lucas wasn't very popular to begin with. When DLC came out, everyone had short bursts of hype for Lucas and Roy, but everyone started developing metagame for Ryu because OMG RYU. You can tell, because nobody wanted to develop metagame for Lucas or Roy. Lucas should be WAY HIGHER on the tier list. We just don't have a high placing rep. Haxii is arguably the best Lucas, but he's never even been to a national. Pink Fresh is planning on dropping the character. SpaceDong has literally no recognition. PEOPLE: THIS IS THE ONLY REASON WHY LUCAS IS SO LOW. Everyone agrees that Lucas can survive in the meta, and in fact, he probably has the best matchup against Ryu in the whole cast. He has an easier time dealing with S tiers than Ness can, and if you didn't consider rep, you could easily argue for Lucas to be in A tier. Someone get us a new Mekos ;-;

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

The only thing that baffles me about it is how Ness is high tier but Lucas is low tier. Isn't it generally agreed upon that Ness and Lucas are more or less moveset clones? That's why I don't understand Lucas being as far down as he is.

Lucas is definitely not a moveset clone.
They only really share aesthetics and inspiration behind their specials.
They play completely differently and Lucas has more in common with Mewtwo than Ness. (dsmash, nair, usmash, fair)

 

[nerdbot]

If it were my judgement and my judgement alone I'd have put the C tier with Falcon and Yoshi at the bottom of High Tier, and the F Tier with Lucas at the bottom of mid. I wouldn't really alter Lucas's placement, but I do feel all the characters in his tier could be played competitively...

 

[k-ta]

I don't care because the list is already outdated.

 

[JesterJaded]

It's less of a matter of "can be played competitively" and more of, "how much is Lucas wrecked by the top tiers." I'd say we do a good job with keeping Ryu out, and comboing him is pretty easy-bake on our part. Meta Knight's on a slightly less efficient scale, but I believe our floatiness helps us DI out of his ladder... maybe. Theoretically we have a better Rosalina matchup than Ness, and I don't think we get wrecked by Sheik any more than the rest of high-low / low-mid tier do.

 

[Login_Sinker]

Yeah Lucas is pretty viable. I can't think of any match ups that feel particularly unwinnable. ZSS and Sonic are pretty hard, though.

 

[lui3k]

Yeah Lucas is pretty viable. I can't think of any match ups that feel particularly unwinnable. ZSS and Sonic are pretty hard, though.

for me add cloud to the list although im learning to deal w him slowly

 

[lui3k]

I don't care because the list is already outdated.

you mean like since the new patch came out like 4 days later?

 

[lui3k]

I think having him as a DLC character hurt him a lot seeing as though Lucas wasn't very popular to begin with. When DLC came out, everyone had short bursts of hype for Lucas and Roy, but everyone started developing metagame for Ryu because OMG RYU. You can tell, because nobody wanted to develop metagame for Lucas or Roy. Lucas should be WAY HIGHER on the tier list. We just don't have a high placing rep. Haxii is arguably the best Lucas, but he's never even been to a national. Pink Fresh is planning on dropping the character. SpaceDong has literally no recognition. PEOPLE: THIS IS THE ONLY REASON WHY LUCAS IS SO LOW. Everyone agrees that Lucas can survive in the meta, and in fact, he probably has the best matchup against Ryu in the whole cast. He has an easier time dealing with S tiers than Ness can, and if you didn't consider rep, you could easily argue for Lucas to be in A tier. Someone get us a new Mekos ;-;

pink fresh is thinking about dropping him??? thats sad to hear he is so good w him and i really enjoy watching him every week on S@X

 

[Login_Sinker]

Didn't even think about Cloud, but I agree he is a massive nuisance. Like I said before, not unwinnable, but you have to work for it.

 

[lui3k]

Didn't even think about Cloud, but I agree he is a massive nuisance. Like I said before, not unwinnable, but you have to work for it.

yea dude the cloud match up sux against a casual player i can eventually get in and claw my way to victory but against someone who is well versed w the character its a diff story cloud has all the tools to keep lucas out. the only way i see to win is super campy with zairs and pk fires till you see an opening but even then one slip up and cloud can sent you to another dimension with a basically any limit break or smash... he is too fast, too strong and just has too much range

i should pick up cloud

 

[MrStardustRicon]

Someone get us a new Mekos ;-;

Guess it's a good thing Mekos is coming back now.

 

[JohnnyB]

Guess it's a good thing Mekos is coming back now.

Pinkfresh still uses him from time to time too. There is hope.

 

[MrStardustRicon]

Pinkfresh still uses him from time to time too. There is hope.

Is he really? I thought he just used him recently just to prove "hey I'm still a good smasher, Bayo isn't carrying me"

 

[ZannerNanner]

Anyone know if Lucas was changed in the most recent patch?

 

[abx]

General consensus here is that he isn't changed. Patch notes indicate no changes as well.

 

[that_rock]

Is he really? I thought he just used him recently just to prove "hey I'm still a good smasher, Bayo isn't carrying me"

I know he uses it against Luigi, definitely keeping it as a secondary. But yea, that nerf isnt going to stop him from maining bayo. Its nice to see him on that Lucas thou. It still looks good.