So how much slower is Brawl?

[Nasir]

There's only one thing that worries me about Brawl, and that is the speed. I really liked how fast Melee was and therefore I'm quite a bit worried about that in Brawl. Is it as slow as 64 or is it somewhere between 64 and Melee, and if so, more like 64 or more like Melee?

This question is pointed to those who played the demo at E for all...

 

[Chromepro]

the demo that the guy played looks reallly slow especially for Samus her B+up is sloww.

 

[Justin Wiles]

If the videos indicate anything, it seems like moves/attacks are not that much slower, it's mostly the way the characters jump and float through the air that has been drastically changed.

 

[Tobi-]

Most people said it was somewhat like SSB64 slow.

 

[SmirkySmirker]

I like the new speed, smash bros felt too much like the characters were made of fluff, now hopefully with the slower speed it will feel nicer.

 

[PITforREV]

The fact that this game is closer to 64 than melee indicates to me that it simply wont be as good as melee.....because I htink we can all agree that melee>64.....I dont understand why theyd regress?

 

[Nasir]

The fact that this game is closer to 64 than melee indicates to me that it simply wont be as good as melee.....because I htink we can all agree that melee>64.....I dont understand why theyd regress?

I'm with you there! Someone should perhaps make a petition on the subject. Smash Bros 64 really seems like it is in slow motion to me...

 

[Tobi-]

The fact that this game is closer to 64 than melee indicates to me that it simply wont be as good as melee.....because I htink we can all agree that melee>64.....I dont understand why theyd regress?

SSB64 speed wasn't that bad. If SSB64 had wavedashing it'd be pretty darn fast. Really, I have no problem with it.

Then again, I could be completely wrong with saying brawl is closer to 64 speed. Can't say so till I try it myself.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

The fact that this game is closer to 64 than melee indicates to me that it simply wont be as good as melee.....because I htink we can all agree that melee>64.....I dont understand why theyd regress?

Because its on the wii.

The majority of gamers now dont want games. They want flashy friendly stuff, that doesnt take years to master like a truly strategic game a la chess. Now its fluffy cinematics and stuff that isnt the core of what was in the games we grew up with on the snes / n64 / gamecube. Which was games with actual gameplay like melee, or mega man x2 for snes.

Smash is VERY OBVIOUSLY noobed down from melee, melee was too much for the general audience, only what I consider true fans took the game deeper than the surface, and nintendos done their best job to weigh th great progress in melee down by reducing the speed overall and changing the airdodge.

But the new airdodge, offeres new possibilities.

Brawl, in a few years, or even sooner, (with online) will have BROKEN moves and BROKEN characters, SOONER than you think.

Smash isnt about one or two things. But its sad to see the speed overall reduced, thats such a basic attempt to make it newb friendly, I dont even mind the wavedash being gone, but making it slower... as in the ability to react fast isnt important.. is exploiting reaction time a glitch?

is skill a glitch?

 

[Lemon Drop]

Watching the Demo's it actually doesn't seem that much slower. Just a different game mechanic in play where all the characters are floatier than Melee.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

ya dont get me wrong brawl looks pretty cool

I wanna play it already!

 

[Tristan_win]

"is skill a glitch?"

I agree with Dylan as time progress we will find new "broken" moves to use so we shouldn't really worry as long we have dedicated players like M2k still with us.

Oh and Dylan Tnga I'll remember to give your post special respect for now on.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

''Brawl will be balanced unless mew2king is allowed to play it''



thanks tristan.

 

[Lemon Drop]

I remember when gimpyfish first told us about his play throughs with Brawl and thought they nerfed Fox HORRIBLY, but later figured out if you play Brawl like Melee, you won't do to well.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Special Brawl -------> Fast Mode

Presto!

 

[Lemon Drop]

Special Brawl -------> Fast Mode

Presto!

Oh SNAP!! Genious!!

Well actually unless we can set the speed to 1.5 or something (or whatever) the game will be moving to fast at 2.0.

 

[Darkpaladin of Chaos]

I'm with you there! Someone should perhaps make a petition on the subject. Smash Bros 64 really seems like it is in slow motion to me...

The same people that said the game was slower also said the game was absolutely amazing. Don't judge if you haven't even played.

 

[Dojo999]

The game seemed slow at the demo because the people playing were idiotic nintenedo reps. who sucked at the game depite claiming to have MADE IT. These guys were getting beat by like level 5 computers. That or flocks of woman screaming so loud that not only were they not able to play right but the people around them suffered from mild strokes.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Oh SNAP!! Genious!!

Well actually unless we can set the speed to 1.5 or something (or whatever) the game will be moving to fast at 2.0.

Well i don't know, 2.0 speed for Melee was too fast to be playable, but if this game is indeed slower maybe an increase between 1.5 and 2.0 will be nice enough for those speed demons.

You could even fix floatiness with the gravity option, in theory. Seeing how customizable Brawl seems to be i wouldn't be surprised if you could set different degrees for each of these variables in special brawl.

 

[Foxman15]

I dont even mind the wavedash being gone, but making it slower... I'm a douchebag

I actually distinctively remember you saying you will not buy Brawl if wavedashing is taken out.

 

[Eight Sage]

Special Brawl -------> Fast Mode

Presto!

lol at the idea: Special Brawl -------> Slow Mode... you could have minutes to plan what to do next.

 

[yoshi_fan]

The fact that this game is closer to 64 than melee indicates to me that it simply wont be as good as melee.....because I htink we can all agree that melee>64.....I dont understand why theyd regress?

Well, it's arguiably.

Sincerely, if SSB64 had Wdash, it would be as fast as melee. And i like a LITTLE (And i mean very small little) more ssb64 than melee. They are two diferent games

And really... I like (to some extent) de type of play of the ssb64. Is more dinamic, simplistic and fun. But it becomes really... diferent to ssbm.

Anyway, i like to play Link's ssb, and link's ssbm the same way. IS the funiest character (bumeran bomb bumeran bom bumeran bomb bumeran bomb bumeran bomb **** IS SO ANOYING AND FUNNY OH HELL YEAH!!!)

 

[Devastlian]

Ya know, Sakurai said the development team were people that played SSBM everyday at lunch since it, like, came out, right? What if, as soon as they had a working multiplayer build, he made them play SSBB everyday at lunch while developing it.

X.x Jeeze...I wanna get one of their Friend Codes.

Anyway...maybe it's slower 'cause of online? Or...maybe they just wanted a different experience. I dunno. It looks fine to me. The premise and style are what got me on SSB in the first place and SSBB has got those and looks like a blast in its own right.

 

[Tobi-]

Judging from the videos it doesn't look slow at all.

Melee is the same speed as brawl from looks, but since I've seen so many videos of people WaveDashing in Melee, of course brawl looks slower.

 

[Nasir]

The same people that said the game was slower also said the game was absolutely amazing. Don't judge if you haven't even played.

I have no doubt it will be amazing. Actually I'm pretty sure it will be. But all I said is that I'm worried about the speed in the game. It doesn't mean I think it will suck, because I don't.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

Tnga talking logic still kinda shocks me, but I'll roll with it.

And Nasir, while it's normal of you to worry I think that worry's unfounded. Your lack of doubt concerning Brawl's greatness is proof enough.

 

[Nasir]

Tnga talking logic still kinda shocks me, but I'll roll with it.

And Nasir, while it's normal of you to worry I think that worry's unfounded. Your lack of doubt concerning Brawl's greatness is proof enough.

Yeah, but actually I think Brawl will be better than Melee in almost every other aspects than the speed. So there's really only one thing I'm worried about, everything else seems like improvements to me.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I actually distinctively remember you saying you will not buy Brawl if wavedashing is taken out.

I distinctly remember that I said that 10.7 months ago and I realised I was being ridiculous and actually said sorry publicly for being overly dramatic.

Since then Ive had people on my *** for whatever reason. This game looks fine im gonna play it and I dont really think theres anything to complain about.

Wavedashin is something im willing to let go of, im VERY glad some form of L cancelling is back, I just wanna pick up my controller and try the game out and have some fun.

Tnga talking logic still kinda shocks me, but I'll roll with it.

haha...

Yeah, but actually I think Brawl will be better than Melee in almost every other aspects than the speed. So there's really only one thing I'm worried about, everything else seems like improvements to me.

No offense but I dont think anyone knows enough about the details of this game to know itd be better than melee in EVERY aspect, and the ''speed'' itself isnt even an issue, how well the gameplay flows and stuff is way more important.

Id like to hear though what you think besides the speed is better in brawl than in melee?

I kind of like how in melee we have floaty (samus/marth) SUPER floaty (jiggypuff kirby) medium like.. sheik, and heavy like falcon and fox and falco and donkeykong weights. in brawl it seems like everyone more or less is floaty, kind of boring to me, even super smash bros 64 had widely different weight.

But I just dont know till I play the game. I think itll improve on melee on somethings, but not on everything. Melee IS still a great game, so its definatly a hard thing to make better.

 

[Foxman15]

That's good to hear Dylan. Hey, that's my name too! Anyway, yeah I haven't really read your recent posts in general, but I do remember right before the updates started you were constantly posting in the n00b threads complaining about random ****. I had some good laughs, because some of the stuff was actually quite funny. Right after all the new brawl info got released at E for All, I had my doubts (which I'd been trying to keep subconcious ie. waveshashin, effective shuffle, l-cancel) but I now I realize that there are many more new things to come advanced play wize regardless of the fact wavedashing no longer exists. Who knows, we may exploit something else that gives characters quick jumps of movement. Probably not, but who knows? Just like you, I also can't wait to simply play the game, and maybe find some stuff out on my own.

 

[Hmaal]

It probably just looks and feels slower bcuz most ppl are used to seeing pple wavedash or wavedash them selves. Personally to me it looks the same speed and i just got done watching a bunch of videos from e for all expo.

 

[twdfx]

One of the reasons it would have looked slower in some videos:

The wiimote. Simply put, when noobs are playing smash bros, double tapping > to run isn't something they would do. All the characters would be at their maximum walking pace, but not running. This was the case with a good number of the videos.

Brawl is slower with respect to vertical speed mostly. Horizontal speed has been reduced, but the most evident slowing down is in how fast characters fall. Another way that brawl is 'slower', is that moves like samus' up+b, when hitting, take a lot longer to perform and finish. These kind of combo moves are more akin to ssb64 than in melee. Melee's multiple hit moves slowed down a bit while hitting, but nowhere near as much as ssb64's and brawl's.

While brawl has been slowed down on a few fronts, it doesn't mean that the gameplay overall is slower. When I heard it was slower, I thought more along the lines of slow-motion melee, and that had me worried. Then I saw videos, and characters were, in many respects, as fast as ever. With the new L-cancel system using fastfalls especially, I don't think that we are going to have any problem with the speed of this game. As everyone says, it's a different game, so judging how much it will kick *** by it's speed and comparing it to melee is completely useless and does a disservice to everyone working on the game.

I can pretty much guarantee you that the game will be perfectly paced. Everything is designed to work together. You can't just take brawl and make it 1.5x faster and think it will result in a more fun game, because it won't. It will be balanced and well thought out. Just you wait

 

[evilflame101]

from some of the videos it looks much faster then melee, but ya 64 seemed slow moe ish, and btw brawl is a hardcore wii game, this is not directed at everyone like causual gamers...

 

[DraginHikari]

Meh, I really think this isn't as major of a thing as this is being amde to be...

Really, this is a simpler fighting game that could be learned and played by anyone, casual or "hardcore gamer"... boy do I despise that term....

 

[Pink Reaper]

The game isnt significantly slower per se, it just doesnt flow as well as melee. With the lack of Wavedashing and difficult L-canceling(which no one at E for All even figured out untill the last day >.<) you cant simply keep moving and attacking. This means that the game will rely on more thought out attacks and combos rather than just going for one attack after another. Also, dont trust the vids. The vids are of people who had never played the game before. Even if you watch the vids of Gimpy and the other pros at E for All, no one really knew how to play the game. Everything we know now is from a demo that we only got to play for two minutes at a time. Our impressions of the game are only on the thinest level, the basics. Once the game actually comes out we will actually be able to see how fast the game CAN be played.

 

[Nasir]

Id like to hear though what you think besides the speed is better in brawl than in melee?

Well, It's a few things... The stages, first of all look visually much better, I think that the events in the background seems really great. And the stages also look more fun to play. Of course we haven't heard of every stage yet, but so far, so good. Then of course it will most likely be more of everything like characters, stages and perhaps and hopefully even more game modes. I don't see that as a bad thing. Then we have online play and stage builder which both seems to make this game even more fun than before.

Sakurai and his team also seem to work much harder for a better single player adventure like the Subspace Emissary. I think that Smash Bros, while it has always been a really great multiplayer game, it has lacked a decent single player mode.

Well, at least that is what I think is better, at least what seems better... and we probably have a lot more great updates on the dojo yet before the game is realesed. So yeah it actually seems better than melee in my opinion except for the speed. Not to forget Final Smashes and Assist trophies which I think seems really cool.

 

[Mama]

I think it might be more due to the floatiness rather than the actual moves themselves that are to blame for the slowness. That said I'm not concerned. I can adapt. I simply love the series to much to let a change in speed hinder me. I'm sure everyone will adjust and get used to it. And from what I've read its not something horrendously awkward but something that can be adapted to. Keep an open mind.

 

[drengist]

I have a question. Which Melee character has the closest speed and weight when it comes to overall pace and floatiness in Brawl? Is Brawl like Peach or Ness or Jigglypuff in Melee?

 

[User33]

Don't listen to the majority of n00bs in this topic. It looks to be slightly slower then Melee without wavedashing, and with wavelanding and L Cancelling confirmed, plus other techniques, we should see it increase as time goes by. Plus remember how slow Melee was when you first started?

 

[sfox8]

I think people are overreacting. We're judging before we even get to play the game for more than two minutes. SS64 really wasn't all that slow. There is still a lot going on at one time just like in Melee. I think at times Melee got way too hectic to the point where you didn't even know what was going on. A change of pace can be good in this case. It's not like it's going in slow motion. I have a feeling it'll be somewhere between 64 and Melee, and that's really not a bad thing. It gives everyone more time to make thought out moves and think of a strategy, instead of having noobs come in mashing buttons and spamming projectiles or quick moves.

Plus, like other people said, I'm SURE that within a few months (in fact, I'll give it a month) someone will have come up with some new advanced techniques. Eventually people will discover glitches and different ways to fight. Hell, the possibilities of finding advanced techniques using AIR DODGE are just sitting here glaring at us. You can react after air dodging! I can think of quite a few techniques based solely off of that!

 

[GreenKirby]

OMG this game is so SLOW and it has nothing to do with the fact that:

New controls (wiimote)
N00bs playing badly
NEW feel of a NEW game
No one was wavedashing so didn't SEEM as fast
The girls were loud so concentration was difficult

No. It has NOTHING to do with those reasons. The game is horribly slow. >_>

*sometimes one needs to be blunt and rude to get a point across. *