So a Mii SwordFighter just won a tournament with good players.

[Xyro77]

Trela was the best Lucario in North America during the Brawl days and is the 2nd best Robin in Smash 4 (USA). He decided to go 100% Sword Mii at a tournament I hosted today. His move set was 1, 1, 1, 1.


www.smashboards.com/threads/s-dd-1-3-14-3015-league-city-tx.394946/

 

[Trieste SP]

Whoaaah, I'm glad more people are picking up swordfighter. I honestly didn't expect anyone could win a tournament with him.
Man, this news is makes me have more faith in him.

 

[GS3K]

Didn't see that coming

 

[Wintropy]

And suddenly the world is a slightly better place.

Just proves the notion that no character is inherently broken, just needs a skilled player to realise their potential.

 

[CrimsonSmasher]

Trela was the best Lucario in North America during the Brawl days and is the 2nd best Robin in Smash 4 (USA). He decided to go 100% Sword Mii at a tournament I hosted today. His move set was 1, 1, 1, 1.


www.smashboards.com/threads/s-dd-1-3-14-3015-league-city-tx.394946/

Is there any footage?

 

[Bob Bills]

Yeah, I could only imaginewhat reactions this thread would get if it were on GameFAQs.

The Mii Swordfighter's main problem is that his moves are pretty laggy, if they hadn't put any lag in his moves then his reputation would be much different. I also fail to see why people call him the worst character in the game when there are other characters like Wii Fit Trainer, Zelda, and Default Specials Palutena who are far worse.

 

[Xyro77]

yes. recorded on stream AND it will be uploaded to youtube soon.

 

[Wintropy]

Yeah, I could only imaginewhat reactions this thread would get if it were on GameFAQs.

The Mii Swordfighter's main problem is that his moves are pretty laggy, if they hadn't put any lag in his moves then his reputation would be much different. I also fail to see why people call him the worst character in the game when there are other characters like Wii Fit Trainer, Zelda, and Default Specials Palutena who are far worse.

wat u say @A@

No but seriously, "far worse" is so subjective as to have no actual bearing on, well, anything. Maybe they're worse from your perspective, but by what particular benchmark are we defining "worse"?

I don't think an attitude like that helps the meta at all. It's good to acknowledge a character's strengths and weaknesses, but to suggest that a character isn't that bad because "well there are worse characters" isn't really of any help. It creates the impression that characters should be solely justified by their merits relative to other characters, rather than based on what they can do in themselves.

I'm happy this thread is a thing. It shows quite nicely how no character is inherently or objectively worse than any other.

 

[Unknownkid]

I have watched some of the matches. I am quite impressive. Trela's fundamental are amazing. Is his Mii Medium Weight/Height? The sword size and his speed is throwing me off.

Nvm. I got my answer. It was standard.

 

[Bob Bills]

wat u say @A@

No but seriously, "far worse" is so subjective as to have no actual bearing on, well, anything. Maybe they're worse from your perspective, but by what particular benchmark are we defining "worse"?

I don't think an attitude like that helps the meta at all. It's good to acknowledge a character's strengths and weaknesses, but to suggest that a character isn't that bad because "well there are worse characters" isn't really of any help. It creates the impression that characters should be solely justified by their merits relative to other characters, rather than based on what they can do in themselves.

I'm happy this thread is a thing. It shows quite nicely how no character is inherently or objectively worse than any other.

You have no concept of tier lists. Some characters are simply better than others. Palutena suffers from bad tilts, slow standards, and bad default specials- assuming equal skill of the players and a fair match (e.g. no hazards or items), a Diddy vs. Palutena match will always result in the Diddy winning.

Some characters are simply better than others, it's just a fact of life. You can spend years trying to make a balanced roster, but someone's gonna always discover an exploit that shoots a character to the top of the tier lists. And with a bigger roster, we have 51, soon to be 52 characters, balance is gonna be even harder.

 

[Wintropy]

You have no concept of tier lists. Some characters are simply better than others. Palutena suffers from bad tilts, slow standards, and bad default specials- assuming equal skill of the players and a fair match (e.g. no hazards or items), a Diddy vs. Palutena match will always result in the Diddy winning.

Some characters are simply better than others, it's just a fact of life. You can spend years trying to make a balanced roster, but someone's gonna always discover an exploit that shoots a character to the top of the tier lists. And with a bigger roster, we have 51, soon to be 52 characters, balance is gonna be even harder.

EDIT: Wrong thread, sorry~

EDIT 2 (with proper answer):

I know precisely how tier lists work. What I don't appreciate is people insinuating that one character is objectively better than any other based purely on technical merit. It's just as much down to the skill of the player in question. I've seen plenty of decent Palutena and Diddy players duke it out, and many times has Palutena emerged triumphant because the player just did better.

A bad workman blames his tools. If you screw up a match, it's because you didn't work with what you've got; likewise, if you win, it's because you played better. Technical elements apply to a certain degree, but at least in my experience, it still requires a solid understanding of how to play the character and work the matchup. The sword is nothing without the hand that wields it.

I think this thread should be sufficient to demonstrate that~ :3

 

[Bob Bills]

EDIT: Wrong thread, sorry~

EDIT 2 (with proper answer):

I know precisely how tier lists work. What I don't appreciate is people insinuating that one character is objectively better than any other based purely on technical merit. It's just as much down to the skill of the player in question. I've seen plenty of decent Palutena and Diddy players duke it out, and many times has Palutena emerged triumphant because the player just did better.

A bad workman blames his tools. If you screw up a match, it's because you didn't work with what you've got; likewise, if you win, it's because you played better. Technical elements apply to a certain degree, but at least in my experience, it still requires a solid understanding of how to play the character and work the matchup. The sword is nothing without the hand that wields it.

I think this thread should be sufficient to demonstrate that~ :3

Tier lists always assume equal skills of players. A tournament level player will always beat someone who is playing the game for the first time. A Diddy player will always beat a default Palutena player if they have equal skill and the match is fair (no hazards, no items etc.). Plus, look at the tournament results. Most people who've won big-level Smash 4 tournaments (like EVO) have used Diddy, Yoshi, Sheik, Rosalina, Falcon, Ness, or another high-tier character, while characters like Palutena, Zelda, and Wii Fit Trainer are rarely even seen in them. There's clearly a difference between the two sides.

 

[Wintropy]

Tier lists always assume equal skills of players. A tournament level player will always beat someone who is playing the game for the first time. A Diddy player will always beat a default Palutena player if they have equal skill and the match is fair (no hazards, no items etc.). Plus, look at the tournament results. Most people who've won big-level Smash 4 tournaments (like EVO) have used Diddy, Yoshi, Sheik, Rosalina, Falcon, Ness, or another high-tier character, while characters like Palutena, Zelda, and Wii Fit Trainer are rarely even seen in them. There's clearly a difference between the two sides.

Um, no, no they won't. Where do you get that kind of blanket ignorance from?

Sorry, but I don't think it matters a lick in the long run. The meta's still evolving, and if characters like default Palutena are low, it's because people have yet to realise their true potential. Tier lists only exacerbate that issue: high-tier characters are played because they're perceived as superior and have more of an established meta, while low-tier characters are left to languish for the opening round of the new game.

So no, a Diddy player will not always beat a default Palutena, irrespective of skill level. That's a naive thing to say. The chances are mechanically and statistically weighed in Diddy's favour, that much is undeniable - but to present it as an objective fact is just absurd. I've seen many, many good Palutena players beat high-level players of all kinds, including Diddy. That they are not represented at national tournaments does not nullify their validity as competitive characters.

And for the record, I do think tier lists are a worthwhile pursuit, but I don't think they are the alpha / omega of the game's roster. It's too early to even cite tier lists as gospel truth - at least wait a while before making such bold proclamations without justifiable vindication to that end.

 

[A-money2121]

I'm honestly surprised to see that Mii SwordFighter is "apparently" the worst character in the game, according to many tier lists. I've picked him up a few days ago and actually liked him. I'm glad that this guy won the tournament. Hopefully he'll give the Mii SwordFighter a better name.