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Snake vs Pit

CaliburChamp

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I was wondering about this match up. It seems like Pit doesn't do so badly against Snake players in my opinion. I was wondering if you Pit mains can explain to me how Pit can do good against Snake, and what are some combos, and tactics you use to fight against Snake.
I hate Snakes, such a cheap character.
 

AndrewCarlson

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From what I remember, Pit actually has the advantage in this match-up since he can completely shut down Snake's projectile game.
 

teh_pwns_the

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I hate Snakes, such a cheap character.
lol says the meta main

and yea pit matches up pretty well against snake because snake requires a lot of control which is kinda hard to do when hes eating arrows, plus when he pulls out his cypher he is asking to get ***** since pit can get anywhere on the map pretty much, oh and you can AR his Usmash which is always fun

snake is not cheap, snake takes a moderate amount of skill to play well
 

CaliburChamp

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lol says the meta main

and yea pit matches up pretty well against snake because snake requires a lot of control which is kinda hard to do when hes eating arrows, plus when he pulls out his cypher he is asking to get ***** since pit can get anywhere on the map pretty much, oh and you can AR his Usmash which is always fun

snake is not cheap, snake takes a moderate amount of skill to play well
It's not hard to get good with Snake. Just learn his sliding mortar slide, and grenade tricks. SNake is the cheapest character in this game because he can control the field better than any one else, so you would have to concentrate on Snake and the stage at the sametime, otherwise you'll forget where his C4 and mines are and get KOed in the process. Metaknight takes more practice because he has to attack up close and the Dimensional Cloaking AT is really hard to do, although I can do it consistently (its not banned online.)

Anyways, basically I'm deciding on a Snake counter. I might drop Toon Link in favor of Pit or DDD, just to stand a better chance against Snake players. DDD because he is my 2nd favorite heavy weight (Charizard is the first favorite) and because of his Waddle Dee acting like shields against projectiles, and his chain grabs.
Pit because, he has a great ledge game, and has 2 reflectors, great recovery, spammable projectile and is a fun interesting character to play as and also because he isn't an overused character.
 

Coffee™

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arrow spam and wingdashing
Won't do much against a good Snake.

I was wondering about this match up. It seems like Pit doesn't do so badly against Snake players in my opinion. I was wondering if you Pit mains can explain to me how Pit can do good against Snake, and what are some combos, and tactics you use to fight against Snake.
I hate Snakes, such a cheap character.
I'll mention some things about the matchup, which is definitely in Pit's favour in my opinion.

Pit's projectile game completely shuts down Snake's projectile game.

Pit can CG Snake to 40% with his Forward Throw.

Snake has trouble dealing with Pit's ledgegame. (Arrows, Uair and Nair from the ledge.) The wind effect from Pit's Up B enables you to push away Grenades from the ledge and there's always the Mirror Shield to reflect them.

Pit can gimp snake relatively easily if he can get him off the stage, but you have to be selective with which moves you use as moves like Nair and Uair will not hit him out of his cypher.
 

CaliburChamp

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Won't do much against a good Snake.



I'll mention some things about the matchup, which is definitely in Pit's favour in my opinion.

Pit's projectile game completely shuts down Snake's projectile game.

Pit can CG Snake to 40% with his Forward Throw.

Snake has trouble dealing with Pit's ledgegame. (Arrows, Uair and Nair from the ledge.) The wind effect from Pit's Up B enables you to push away Grenades from the ledge and there's always the Mirror Shield to reflect them.

Pit can gimp snake relatively easily if he can get him off the stage, but you have to be selective with which moves you use as moves like Nair and Uair will not hit him out of his cypher.
Thanks. That's the post I've been waiting for. I didn't know Pit can chain grab Snake to 40%. Thats a great bonus. Could you change Snake's direction of his cypher using Pit's shield?
And wasn't there a thread somewhere showing which recoveries Pit's shield could reflect back?
 

AndrewCarlson

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You wouldn't really need to use Mirror Shield to gimp his recovery. Snake is one of the easiest characters for Pit to Wall of Pain off the stage.
 

Coffee™

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Thanks. That's the post I've been waiting for. I didn't know Pit can chain grab Snake to 40%. Thats a great bonus. Could you change Snake's direction of his cypher using Pit's shield?
And wasn't there a thread somewhere showing which recoveries Pit's shield could reflect back?
No, you can't change the direction of his cypher (would be great if you could but sadly no), and I don't think there as a thread that showed which recoveries he can reflect.
 

AndrewCarlson

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No, you can't change the direction of his cypher (would be great if you could but sadly no), and I don't think there as a thread that showed which recoveries he can reflect.
Are you sure about that? I remember Pit could reverse even R.O.B's and his own Up-B, and both are non-damaging recovery moves. I was under the impression that any character, regardless of what attack they're using, would be turned around when they connect with the shield while it's shining. Since it registered R.O.B. and Pit's own Up-Bs as attacks, I thought it would do the same with Snake's.
 

Coffee™

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Thats interesting. I'll give it a try but due to the nature of Snakes UpB I have doubts. And you can't reverse every recovery. For example you cannot reverse Lucario's recovery or Warios.
 

AndrewCarlson

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I just tested Snake's, and it seems you are correct. And by Wario's, are you referring to his Bike or his Up-B? But I know for sure that Pit and R.O.B. can be turned around while using Up-B (though it doesn't really affect them that much).
 

Ryanarius

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Won't do much against a good Snake.



I'll mention some things about the matchup, which is definitely in Pit's favour in my opinion.

Pit's projectile game completely shuts down Snake's projectile game.

Pit can CG Snake to 40% with his Forward Throw.

Snake has trouble dealing with Pit's ledgegame. (Arrows, Uair and Nair from the ledge.) The wind effect from Pit's Up B enables you to push away Grenades from the ledge and there's always the Mirror Shield to reflect them.

Pit can gimp snake relatively easily if he can get him off the stage, but you have to be selective with which moves you use as moves like Nair and Uair will not hit him out of his cypher.
I'm a pit main that thinks the matchup is in snakes advantage. Pit has a lot of advantages against a bad snake but if your playing one familar with the matchup those advantages really dry up.

A nade hitting you does about as much damage as an arrow hitting snake and a grenade exploding does a lot of damage. Pit can beat snake in a range fight but its not a slaughter. My advice on that is don't be afraid to fight him range but don't count on it once a snake slows down and starts throwing timed grenades its quite difficult to deal with. Snake can approach through arrows without much difficulty so your going to have to do more then just shoot arrows.

If the snake knows what he's doing he can get out of the chaingrab after the second throw. Its not exactly easy and as I'm the pit in the matchup I'm not sure on the technicals but I think if snake di's down and away he can spot dodge before pit can grab again. Still it puts him in a position where you can follow up the throw easily enough.

Pits ledge game is quite effective against snake. You have to be somewhat careful a grenade can stage spike you easily if your careless. Also a lot of tournaments are beginning to be more strict against ledgecamping so be careful of that.

Gimping a good snake is really hard. A lot of snakes will wait too long to use the cypher in which case its pretty easy to call where they are going to be making a really easy edge game. If you happen to be in a good position to edgegaurd him generally be ready to attack somewhat above him as his cypher will bring him up. Better snakes will jump often even away from you then cypher right away. This will cause them to go vertical faster then pit can cover. A couple things you can do about this you can shoot a slightly charged arrow that will knock him out of the cypher, I believe 7 damage is all you need to hit out of his heavy armor. Also because they are trying to just go higher then you can guard sometimes snakes will actually go off the top of the map doing this. Cyphering off the top of the map won't kill them but if you hit them with an arrow outside the kill zone they will die.

Also on gimping snake has a fairly low horizontal movement speed. This means you can basically stay under him and juggle him to some extent. When landing against someone staying under him his best options are generally bair, airdodge or pull a grenade. bair comes out really fast and hits hard but can only attack behind so if you space appropiately its not too dangerous. Airdodge will leave them vulnerable upon landing for a couple frames but is a very common reaction. Grenade is probably the more annoying option using multiple hits will most likely blow you both up except for the dilema he is very heavy so it hurts you more relatively.

On the topic of grenades those are probably why snake is such a threat to pit. Snake is really heavy with more kill power then pit so trading damage favors him. Also the first hit of multi hit attacks set off a grenade. This is normally a pain because you need your kill smash refreshed to kill snake at a reasonable percent but if he pulls a grenade the first part of your fsmash will set it off dealing damage to both of you (possible for it just to hurt you if he shields but thats only if you didn't space your fsmash to avoid hitting a drop grenade) also this depletes your fsmash.

Controller port 4 helps deal with grenades but mostly only for grabbing. Just thought I should note that.

Generally for spacing I find if you space to avoid his ftilt works the best. Over 100% keep an eye out for his uptilt especially if he keeps it refreshed it hits very hard and has a lot of range.

A few of his moves are only really effective against bad di. You can generally di out of his dair, nair and jab combo.

Overall I do not like the matchup at all its playable and easy against a mediocre snake but against a strong snake I'd say 60:40 snake and call that optimistic.

I'd recommend deedee against him if your still trying to decide although that match controller port matters way too much for my liking.

edit: oops that wasn't meant to be so long.
 

Coffee™

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I agree with pretty much everything you said aside from the matchup ratio and that mostly depends on ledgecamping. A ledgecamping Pit has the advantage over Snake but if you are forced to play without it then the matchup is probably neutral or tips slightly in Snakes favour.

Alsp, to be honest I'm not entirely sure how you can ban ledge camping as the rules behind bannng it would be very situational and almost always have some loophole that can be exploited anyway.
 

Admiral Pit

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Just for the heads up Calibur, Snake isnt the cheapest char in the game, Metaknight is. Snake may have some overpowered moves, especially the tilts (U-tilt in general), but he actually has weaknesses and at least 1 bad matchup.

Snake hates Pit's arrows for they interrupt his Grenade game, and such. Be sure to perform the grab release when possible.
 

AndrewCarlson

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I really don't think Snake has any sort of advantage in this match. In fact, out of the Top Tier characters, I would say that Snake is easily Pit's best match-up.
 

CaliburChamp

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Ryanarius: Thanks for going into detail of the match up.
Maniacally: I agree with you on that, Pit seems like a good match up.
AdmiralBowser: I guess the characters I'm good with are better at fighting MK's than Snakes. Snake is the character I lose to the most. I guess you think MK is a harder match up cause you main Pit. Hopefully now my character roster will be complete with Pit being a good Snake counter. I just need to practice Pit a bit more to get him up to par with my secondary characters, today was the first day I learned how to play him with AT's referenced from the Pit guide.
 
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