Snake should be banned at tourneys?

[Prince Of Fire]

Yes, I said that...I truly believe Snake should be banned.

It is not that I do not like Snake as a character, he is good and I enjoy him very much...I just think that in a tourney setting....he has too much of advantage over every character.

Lets take a look at Snakes pros for a second- - -

Heavyweight characterPowerful (so far...nothing weird here.)
GOOD RECOVERY (Ikes-sucks, Bowser and Dk-predictable as HELL...and can be gimped with ease.)
Insane tilts-only a good 3-4 moves in the game disrupt his f tilt. Marth and Ikes counter and ikes jab combo
FAST-due to his usmash dash cancel..You can be on the FAR left side of FD while your opponent just hit a mine on the right side and dash cancel ALL the way over to edgeguard him with spamming u smashes.
THE BEST and probably ONLY set of good mindgames-Mines, c4, grenade tricks, crouch to dash canceled u smash, dash attack to dash canceled u smash, (timed perfectly) nikita to find floaters recovering, c4 to make recovery INFINITE until roughly 150%, anything else I forgot?

Cons-

Hard to learn? Yeah, we THOUGHT that at first...but now we learn that if you shield and F tilt all day...you'll be perfectly fine against most matchups.
Unique character to the others (okay...i will give people that one...)
Slow? Not anymore due to his glitch (Heavyweights are SLOWER characters-DK, bowser, DDD, and Ike are all slow characters.)
He actually does have a SLOW, BAD aerial game. That much is very true.

Now I am sure you are thinking "Why not DDD or Meta Knight man, why just Snake? DDD chain throws most characters, has a GREAt u tilt, and a GREAT recovery!" "Meta knight is soooo friggin fast...i cannot keep up with him!" Meta Knight is a super fast character...but a simple f tilt or u tilt against him gives snake PLENTY of time to reset his c4...get in position...whip out another grenade...and own the platforms once again. Meta Knight does poorly against a snake...plain and simple...hes too light.

DDD can chain throw most characters...but there are characters that do very nice against him. Kirby or Jigglypuff for example, cannot be chain thrown....Also, Dedede is also a HUGE character and is very easy to intercept in the air and is an easy target. Dedede has his weaknesses.

Now, sit back for a second and TRULY think about this. What character is good against Solid Snake? What character can EFFECTIVELY stop Snakes F tilt or U tilt out of shield?

Certain characters are also EXTREMELY easy to edgeguard against.

Literally, next time you knock someone off the stage....dash cancel all the way to the edge and get a full charged u smash out of it....and than keep hitting that c stick up to spam more and more rockets...the force is nearly impossible to break through. Most characters simply CANNOT break through it. I played a Ganondorf player last night and got him off the ledge at 30% with a throw and just continued to usmash and guess what? He never got back. Trust me, go spam u smashes all day near the edge...works great.

At least in melee with the top four tier characters....Fox, Falco, Shiek, and Marth...they had counters and characters that could work well against them.

Also, people ALWAYS tell me that "Meta Knight is soooo cheap! HES SO QUICK!" But is he really that cheap? No, he lacks Good Solid KO moves, takes time to control his mach tornado, his glides and his recovery option game. A decent snake player can still just f tilt and u tilt all day long and defeat a Meta Knight. U tilt eats meta alive....there is a counter for you right there against the "cheapest character."

I do not like how people think Dedede is cheap..the only thing dedede REALLY has going for him is his throw power and his chain throws...thats it. If he COULD NOT chianthrow...not a lot of people would use him and we all know that.

Once again, im not bashing Snake...I am probably one of the biggest Metal Gear fans around and I love to use him in Brawl because he is probably one of the most fun characters to use...."haha, you just died by my mine." Do not get me wrong, I'm not against the character, or hate him at all. I just think that in a tourney setting he should only be used if your opponent does not care, or that he should be banned for certain stages. Like Snake, does not do all that good on Norfair, Frigate, Hannenbow, or distant planet...he can not move around as well with his dash cancel...you CAN fight him there.

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Well, if it wasn't for snake winning every tournament ever I might have just laughed at this, but I think this is a little early to decide something like that. People may have just not learned how to fight him yet.

Yes he's the top. Yes he's unbalanced. But unbeatable? No.

 

[Mic_128]

There is nothing about Snake that's broken = no ban.

 

[Prince Of Fire]

There is nothing about Snake that's broken = no ban.

Go to Final Destination and fight either

Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Mario
Luigi
Bowser
Dk
Olimar
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Peach
Ness
Lucas
Marth
or Ice Climbers

knock them off (About 50% is good) and let me know if they break the u smash spam on the c stick edge guard.

 

[Zankoku]

It's called timing. I don't see how Falco, Marth, or Peach should have any kind of trouble avoiding a couple of mortars as an edgeguard; Snake has way more destructive ways to edgeguard.

Sheik practically defined which half of the cast was low tier in Melee, and it's not like she got banned. Snake isn't broken, and your example isn't anything significant.

 

[M3zm3r1z3]

Just got done beating a snake at a tourney with an Olimar :o

 

[Deadlypudding]

Olimar, R.O.B., Pikachu, Game and Watch, and Lucas serve as good countes to Snake. He's beatable like any other character, and is no more broken than any of the characters that counter him (specifically Game and Watch).

 

[Runeblade279]

Snake's ftilt and utilt, while they have giant hitboxes, good knockback, and good priority, fall prey to the same thing all other ground moves fall prey to:

Shielding or Dodging them. Granted, shield grabbing may not be an option depending on how far away you are, but you can still shield and not get hit. Even better, spot dodge the darned utilt and then hit him, it DOES have ending lag. Roll around his ftilt, or spot dodge twice if you're good.

I can't say I've had experience with the usmash edgeguard, so I won't say anything there...

But one of the best ways to beat snake is to pressure him, obviously he'll beat you with range and mine games if you let him, but if you're on him nearly 24/7, alot of his moves (excluding basic and tilts, which you need to watch out for) are not that fast.

Just learn to beat snake imo.

 

[MarthSephirothfan]

Winners train. Losers complain.




I believe you TC fit into the latter category.

 

[retro gamer 6]

snake shouldn't be banned. you just need to pay close attention to what he's doing. practice match ups against him to understand how he plays. but snake shouldn't be banned.

 

[Exile724]

Ugh these topics truely upset me this is probably the third I have seen lately, if you cannot beat snake then that does not mean he is impossible to beat I honestly think that snake is not that hard to beat but thats just my opinion it depends on the opponent really if we are going to talk about "Banning characters" then lets just head over to the zelda section and make a little topic saying she should be banned from tournaments for being to cheap would I do that? No I would not because she can be beaten.

I rest my case but I can see why you can get mad some characters can just be annoying I suppose..

 

[launchpadmcqak13]

I absolutely agree. He has way too much pwn in him. Banned from tourneys? No, thats not going far enough. Banned from friendlies.

 

[Kensei]

Errmmm If you grab the ledge then Roll back on stage you avoid all the crappy U-smash spam... A well timed air dodge would do as well...

Its much harder to avoid pika down B spam although Im not saying thats hard to avoid either just saying its harder than snake spam

 

[Sudai]

I literally rolled around laughing. My roomie though I was nuts till I pointed him to the thread and he joined me.

Way to be a complete n00b TC.

If someone can't get around USmash spam, they suck at this game. Flat out.

Yes. Snake has advantages against some characters. The same ammount as any other character in the game. EVERYONE has an advantage over someone else (except maybe lolganondorf.) so shut up. I don't care if you play him or not either. Just cause your friends suck and you think Snake should be banned means absolutely nothing to me or anyone else in the competetive community. A lot of people *****ed about Shiek in Melee. It eventually stopped and switched to Marth. It eventually stopped and switched to spacies. Get the **** over yourself. Snake should not be banned. He's beatable. He's not even dominating the freakin tourney scene like you seem to imply. You're just choose to ignore certain facts due to your preconcieved notion. So..shut the hell up and go play Brawl. If you think Snake is so broken, don't ****ing play him. Withdraw from any match with a Snake Main. Reset your Brawl data and don't unlock him. I don't give a **** just stop complaining about something that's not true.

 

[AlAxe]

The notion that snake should be banned is ridiculous. Sure Snake is a good character but he's not really better than anybody else. Also some of the things you pointed out are just flat out not true, like snake having a good recovery. Its easy as hell to gimp and the c4 jump is barely ever usefull. Also you claim snake is fast. I'd like to know if you've banned every character except Bowser, Ike, DK, and DDD. Snake is not fast at all. dash cancelling makes him move quickly but you have to be running to pull it out and it really doesn't do much damage. I respect you for actually trying to build an argument using evidence but what you claim is just plainly not true.

 

[abit_rusty]

*sigh* flawed logic = let thread die...

 

[Sundown]

Why do scrubs keep shouting ban at anything they cant beat??? Annoys the hell out of me

 

[FrozenFire13]

I literally rolled around laughing. My roomie though I was nuts till I pointed him to the thread and he joined me.

Way to be a complete n00b TC.

If someone can't get around USmash spam, they suck at this game. Flat out.

Yes. Snake has advantages against some characters. The same ammount as any other character in the game. EVERYONE has an advantage over someone else (except maybe lolganondorf.) so shut up. I don't care if you play him or not either. Just cause your friends suck and you think Snake should be banned means absolutely nothing to me or anyone else in the competetive community. A lot of people *****ed about Shiek in Melee. It eventually stopped and switched to Marth. It eventually stopped and switched to spacies. Get the **** over yourself. Snake should not be banned. He's beatable. He's not even dominating the freakin tourney scene like you seem to imply. You're just choose to ignore certain facts due to your preconcieved notion. So..shut the hell up and go play Brawl. If you think Snake is so broken, don't ****ing play him. Withdraw from any match with a Snake Main. Reset your Brawl data and don't unlock him. I don't give a **** just stop complaining about something that's not true.

TC....gets....pwned?

 

[DanGR]

go fight an olimar or two.

 

[rayecho]

Snake is broken, but he can be beaten. It's to early to say that theres nothing any character can do against him since the game hasn't been out for very long.

 

[Xxll_The Boss_llxX]

Winners train. Losers complain.




I believe you TC fit into the latter category.

^Winner of this topic

 

[wWw Dazwa]

snake isn't akuma

 

[Cort]

...*facepalm*

I'd like to point out the topic creator plays Metaknight, a character better than or equal to Snake.

 

[RomeDogg]

I have a way better, logical idea just ban Brawl from tournaments period............. Melee is better............ B*tch b*tches b*itch.

 

[takieddine]

I have a way better, logical idea just ban Brawl from tournaments period............. Melee is better............ B*tch b*tches b*itch.

I second this notion.

Also this topic is stupid.

 

[A2ZOMG]

@ topic poster

Just letting you know, Snake's recovery isn't all that good. He can't autograb the ledge, and that actually sucks a lot. Especially if you go up against Pikachu.

Also his air game is one of the more subpar ones. Yes, he has some strength in his attacks, but his air game has lots of lag in it which can easily get him punished if he is forced to take to the skies. This also hurts his so so good recovery pretty significantly.

 

[Sh1n0b1]

Snake does have a great hitbox on his ftilt and utilt but that doesn't mean he should get banned. There must be a counter for snake even if it is one of the less likely people in this game.

 

[Jam Stunna]

I just spent the last week arguing with people about the possibility of banning the ICs chain throw, or the ICs themselves. I am against banning any technique or character, as long as said technique and/or character does not excessively stall out matches or make the other character uncontrollable (Rising Pound, freeze glitches, etc.)

If you cannot beat a character, then it is incumbent upon YOU to get better, not the community to make the game easier for you.

 

[Brookman]

Well said Jam, motion to close 'debate'

 

[Cort]

motion to continue laughing at topic creator