Snake is breaking out of Chain grabs... solution?

[Vayseth]

Original thread here:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185181

As many of you are probably aware, snake gets crazy buffs from him being in the 4th controller slot. Here's a quick explanation I made in that thread:

The controller slots give different priority to players. Player 1 has the most priority while Player 4 has the least. This was in melee too, if I'm not mistaken, and proven easily by putting two players together of different slots, setting them to the same wavebird frequency and pushing grab. Player 1 will always beat out players 2-4, player 2 will beat out 3-4 and 3 will beat out 4. This seems to have more influence on the game in Brawl than in melee though.

For example if Bowser bowser-suicides with his side B, if he is player 1 he will ALWAYS die last. If he's lower, they will tie or... I don't remember exactly what happens past a tie or bowser wins... XD

In the case of Snake, if he has 4th slot, he will receive no knockback from grenades that go off interrupting a grab. Meaning, since grenades come out on frame 1, if snake is getting chain grabbed by D3, he will drop the 'nade when getting chaingrabbed and then when D3 does another throw, the 'nade will go off, sending D3 upwards and Snake standing where the 'nade went off. This means Snake gets a free aerial mix up. If Snake is in slot 1 Snake will get launched up while D3 stays OTG and D3 gets a free juggle attempt. Those who play Snake know how much juggling sucks. Therefore, it is absolutely STUPID in the D3/Snake match up. However, I play against Panda regularly and he is ALWAYS in slot 4. After weeks of testing with multiple characters, I can assure you this is ONLY frustrating in the D3 match up. It can be a factor, but really, unless you're a D3 player, no johns.

Basically, have you run into this problem and do you know of a way to stop Snake from pulling 'nades between grabs? I might be screwing up the timing or something so if I am, let me know.

 

[ynnek123]

Can he also drop a nade when you do shield cancelled grabs???? o_O snake is no more God Tier, he is above that.

 

[brawlerbrad91]

that's bogus, but can he actually pull a grenade out if he didn't have one out yet and you've already started CGing him??? If not, then just don't grab him while he's got a grenade. Either way, that's just ridic so good for snake just give him one more thing and make him a little bit better than he already was

 

[Vayseth]

I'm asking if anyone has any experience with it, not to rant about Snake being good. It happens regularly here. Can you guys do some tests to see if it works?

Snake can pull out a grenade at frame 1 of whenever he's out of hit stun, so he can pull nades in the middle of "combos" or multi hit things a lot of the time, making his 4th slot priority broke.

Most of the time, he pulls it in the middle of the chain grab.

So, as far as I can tell, Snake can pull a 'nade in the middle of the chain grab. Wolf seems to be able to shine out of it. ICs can get out of it too, obviously. Lemme know if you can stop snake from getting out of it.

 

[CO18]

I play alot of snakes and it's never worked on me.
Only if I'm falco do they get out of my cg with a grenade.
Same thing with wolf.
Unless I mess up my timing a bit, they won't get out. You have very little room for error but I think you just may be messing up a bit.

 

[DMG]

I play alot of snakes and it's never worked on me.
Only if I'm falco do they get out of my cg with a grenade.
Same thing with wolf.
Unless I mess up my timing a bit, they won't get out. You have very little room for error but I think you just may be messing up a bit.

^^This. I can CG Snake across FD and he will never pull out a grenade. Either my opponent is messing up on the timing, or Snake just doesn't have enough time to pull one out if you time your CG well enough.

 

[Vayseth]

Well, I'd like you guys to test it for me. If I'm screwing up the timing, I'd like to fix it. If the Snakes you are playing don't know about that, then they aren't even using it, which means you wouldn't know if it works or not. Test it out for me if you can. I'm trying over here too.

 

[laird]

Normally, you can get away with a normal non Shield-canceled chain grab with snake; maybe by shield cancelling you can guarantee he will not be able to pull out a nade in time. Someone with frame data want to look into this?

 

[Vayseth]

I have a feeling that it is absolutely possible to stop snake from pulling 'nades. However, you must have frame perfect timing. The 'nade comes out on frame one, so if you are off by a frame, you get blown up.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I thought that in Brawl, the 4th player always had the highest priority while player 1 had the least, basically the opposite of melee

 

[ShadowLink84]

56K 4th player only has more priority concerning the faux super armor.

Otherwise player 1 has priority over the others.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

ok, cool

good to know

I wonder if that was done on purpose...

 

[Vayseth]

No, it's just lazy programming. It's easier to do it that way.

Anyway, the reason the faux super armor happens is because they have LESS priority, so they don't get knockback. You don't all of a sudden get higher priority in certain situations.

 

[Samus-T]

this has never happened to me before. i play with THE best snake in the west coast and he never tries this. i knew about the controller slots buffs but i dont think this actually works if you time your cg correctly

 

[Vayseth]

Yeah, it is looking more and more like I was mistaken. I can do it fine now. I don't know how he was even getting them out before...

 

[gallax]

you guys have to remember that there is 1 frame to pull out the nade. thats not that much time at all to get it out.

 

[PinkPwnageFrenzy]

A friend of mine thought it was slick to try that, so I would just not Shield Cancel Grab a few times. Easy. But if it's just because I have the timing wrong, I'll be sure to fix that.

 

[Vayseth]

It's definitely a way to test if you are doing your SCGs frame perfect XD 1 frame 'nades... dumb.

 

[ShadowLink84]

If its that difficult I recommend you hit him with an Ftilt. Its rather effective when I do it against Proud's Snake.

 

[CO18]

You dont even have to SCG in order for Snake to not be able to get a grenade off.

A dashing grab will get the job done.

 

[Crazy Cloud]

Cort did this against some guy called Buuman in the Finals on Saturday at Ostotes. No one was recording though .

 

[Vayseth]

Yeah, after testing there's no way it should happen unless you let him get a frame off. It's TIGHT timing but... yeah.

 

[Fogo]

Hey, check out my D3 vid thread, any suggestions guys?

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186384

 

[Samus-T]

could snake doing this also be a factor to a chain grabbing falco?

 

[Fogo]

yes, idk if he blows up the nade though

 

[DreadedKid]

Just takes mad skillsz.

 

[samdaballer]

this has never happened to me before. i play with THE best snake in the west coast and he never tries this. i knew about the controller slots buffs but i dont think this actually works if you time your cg correctly

Aero is right

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

agreed

if u do it RIGHT the nade wont come out. u never have to sheild cancel grab him, or most other heavy characters.

my suggestion is to run and start the grab a little earlier than u normally would, and see if that works. if u do it too late, the nade WILL come out.


if u are not confident in ur grab timing, and ur a higher port, than take ur time with each grab.

run, grab, check ground, d-throw. if theres a gernade, wait a second, up throw, pick up gernade and throw it up. best way around getting naded. just be patient and it might end up working in ur advantage, maybe even get them to stop pulling nades at all.