Snake edgeguarding tactics?

[SirPsychoMantis]

In the time I was able to play I wasn't really able to get down any real solid tactics for Snake for edgeguarding besides the occasional bair kick as they were coming back onto the stage.

For you guys who have played as Snake a lot, what have you found to be some good edgeguarding tactics and techniques?

 

[PsychoMidget]

You go off the ledge and get 'em!

but seriously it depends on what characters you're playing against and such, I like to use the nikita cuz I love it even though it's not always a very good choice as an edgeguarder lol

 

[tsl]

You go off the ledge and get 'em!

Oh God, you no idea how much I do this with the F-air heel kick spike. Not so much for 1v1 unless I know I can land it for sure, although it does have its uses ... For example, sometimes a throw off the ledge straight into a shorthopped F-air is a deadly combo, but the spacing and positioning has to be just PERFECT for it to work (typically when they jump back toward you to try and hit you instead of trying to grab the ledge.)

But for FFA, whenever ANYONE is hit off the stage, I'm immediately following them out there to heel them in the face. Snake's amazing recovery with bomb jumping means that as long as you're at low damage, you can get nearly anyone. It's funny, because they're not really expecting it. "D*mnit Marth, why'd you tip me off the level. Now I just need to recover- ... what the- ... Snake? Where you did you - ... BAM!" Seriously, for about the first five rounds of FFAing with people, you can rack up kills like crazy with the heel. Then people start catching on after a while, lol. But it's just another one of those amazing Snake tactics to keep in the inventory.

I find it's like this whenever I learn a new trick with Snake, lol. Spam it like crazy at first because you're so excited you learned it (and because people keep falling for it,) and then retire it to the bag of tricks to pull out again at an opportune time.

Wow, that was off topic ... Anyway, edgeguarding. I find an assorted combination of mortars, mines, and Nikita works well. When they're off the level, just immediately start placing a mine (either one) near the edge and then just start spamming morters at different charged heights or back away and use Nikita. You can usually get SOMETHING in that mass orgy of ordinance to hit. And about the mines, both work, but they have their pros and cons. The Claymore mine is the easiest, but that means you can't stick around to spam mortars or use aerials. Using a C4 mine allows you to stay near the edge until you have to set it off, but the timing is harder. If they grab the ledge, then sometimes the different get-up animations can throw you off.

I'm sure there are other, better ways to edgeguard though ... This is just what I do now because I'm a noob and don't know any better. =P

Does anyone else think that Snake's mortar is a lot like the boomerang? I find that I'm using it a lot like Young / Toon / Link players use the boomerang; you opponent has to worry about the initial hit, and then for whatever combo you're going to go into, and then the object that comes back to hit them again. It's different because it has more startup time and has an area of effect from the explosion, but the time-delay mechanism of it makes the technique really similar to the boomerang. At least, I think so.

God ... Snake's so amazing.

 

[Parthenon]

I either spam Nikitas, spam mortar at the very edge, or jump off and bair.

 

[PsychoMidget]

Seriously, for about the first five rounds of FFAing with people, you can rack up kills like crazy with the heel. Then people start catching on after a while, lol. But it's just another one of those amazing Snake tactics to keep in the inventory.

I find it's like this whenever I learn a new trick with Snake, lol. Spam it like crazy at first because you're so excited you learned it (and because people keep falling for it,) and then retire it to the bag of tricks to pull out again at an opportune time.

Soo true, whenever I recovered I would double jump Fair to gain more air and if anyone appraoched they would get spiked, I did in a few times (In tournament LOL) but eventually people started catching on, so now I seldom use it.

I either spam Nikitas, spam mortar at the very edge, or jump off and bair.

yeah, throwing bears at them works pretty well as an edgeguard

I mean bairs... yeah, bairs...

 

[Crom]

Don't know how reliable of an edge guard this is, but it was working decent tonight.

Basically I would lay a proximity mine near the edge, then back up a bit and spam mortars. Seemed to be working well but it's probably situational and easy to get around

 

[Deadly'_']

Don't know how reliable of an edge guard this is, but it was working decent tonight.

Basically I would lay a proximity mine near the edge, then back up a bit and spam mortars. Seemed to be working well but it's probably situational and easy to get around

Thats sounds alot what i would do with Snake. It seems to make your opponet make wierd choices that you control so, in a way its hindering your opponets options against you. Ive come to the conclusion that when we start really learning how to play Snake this is what his game is gonna be all about. Ruling out certain options and punishing you opponet for bad desions.

 

[tsl]

Thats sounds alot what i would do with Snake. It seems to make your opponet make wierd choices that you control so, in a way its hindering your opponets options against you. Ive come to the conclusion that when we start really learning how to play Snake this is what his game is gonna be all about. Ruling out certain options and punishing you opponet for bad desions.

You're dead on. I'm currently not very good at this aspect of Snake's game, which is why I suck, lol. It's because I've never played any "tricky" characters that rely so much on mindgames before. I was an exclusive Falco main in Melee, and then an exclusive Pikachu main for about the first two weeks of Brawl. Those are both fast, very technical characters that mainly require you to "outplay" your opponent. Suddenly, I fell in love with Snake and now I'm trying to transition to a slow, "tricky" character that requires you to "outthink" your opponent. It's definitely been very difficult. People aren't joking when they're talking about a "learning curve," though it comes much easier to some than others. I guess ended up with the short end of that stick, hah. =P

 

[Deadly'_']

I just wanna get the game already so i can go pro snake

 

[NeoZ]

Just plant a C4 on the edge, a mine farther from the edge(so they don't destroy it while getting up) and start Nikita spamming.

 

[Deadly'_']

Just plant a C4 on the edge, a mine farther from the edge(so they don't destroy it while getting up) and start Nikita spamming.

Thats probably the best thing you can do in terms of edgeguarding with snake. But it seems like it takes alot of time to set that all up. You can probably only get all that of if you send the opponet rly high towards the corner of the screen.

What about dropping c4 or grenades over the edge when you see them about to use thier recover move.
Like dropping c4 of the edge then blow it up when they recover or hitting them with a grenade

 

[Rejjae]

Would it be possible to stick someone with a C4 as they B-up to catch the ledge?

 

[Deadly'_']

Would it be possible to stick someone with a C4 as they B-up to catch the ledge?

I dont think its possible to stick in mid-air but u could just time the C-4 and blow it up when it gets near them. From what ive heard the C4 falls right through characters when snake makes it in mid air.

 

[NeoZ]

Would it be possible to stick someone with a C4 as they B-up to catch the ledge?

Not really, as they auto sweetspot and never enter your C4's "stick range".

 

[Zjiin]

A favorite edgeguard of mine is get to the ledge, charge a mortar, then drop a grenade, roll back and nikita. Don't blow the nikita since it's your plan B, lol.

But in all seriousness, just jump off and bair them. Your upB will keep you safe. If if they are high, and you have good judgement, just upB up to them and neutral combo them. Just be sure you can make it back!

 

[tsl]

I dont think its possible to stick in mid-air but u could just time the C-4 and blow it up when it gets near them. From what ive heard the C4 falls right through characters when snake makes it in mid air.

Similar to what NeoZ said, this one is nearly impossible to do because of auto sweet spotting as well. The moment they enter within range of your C4 explosion, they've already grabbed the ledge and are in invicibility frames. The only real way to "catch" someone on their way to the ledge with a Snake projectile is to time a grenade or drop a Nikita over away from the ledge, but both are still very hard to do.

 

[Deadly'_']

Similar to what NeoZ said, this one is nearly impossible to do because of auto sweet spotting as well. The moment they enter within range of your C4 explosion, they've already grabbed the ledge and are in invicibility frames. The only real way to "catch" someone on their way to the ledge with a Snake projectile is to time a grenade or drop a Nikita over away from the ledge, but both are still very hard to do.

Your right, now that i think about it, its not that easy. I was thinking about vertical recoveries like marth's. For the horizontal ones its a whole lot harder to edge guard with snakes expolsives.

For something effective one everyone. Hmm.... I'd say plant a claymore a foot from the ledge then hugg it
they have to make the difficult desion of getting blown up or they die when you hit the R-trigger to roll onto the stage making grabbing the ledge impossible for them. (This should save you from most recoveries hitting you off the ledge since you get invulnerability frames while rolling onto the stage.)

This is the kind of thing i meant when i said this:

Thats sounds alot like what i would do with Snake. It seems to make your opponets make wierd choices that you control so, in a way its hindering your opponets options against you. Ive come to the conclusion that when we start really learning how to play Snake this is what his game is gonna be all about. Ruling out certain options and punishing you opponet for bad desions.

Gawd im so good at this and I dont even have the game yet!

 

[tsl]

No, you know what, I was thinking exactly the same thing you were for a new technique. I literally woke up out of bed to post it here. I guess you beat me to it, hah ...

Mine is slightly different however. It's riskier. You plant the Claymore and then wait until they have no choice BUT to grab the ledge, and then you jump and edgehog right at the last second. Basically, you trick them. They see you planting the mine, and then go, "Hah. Does this guy think I'm an idiot? Planting such an obvious trap. I can just ledge now- ... Sh*t ..." Truthfully, in many situations, you won't really have the time to plant the mine AND ledgegrab all before your opponent comes back. I kept playing it back over and over in my head, and for certain recoveries like Marth's where your only two choices are to either recover now and land on the stage or recover slightly lower and ledge, I think the timing works out perfectly. Think about how quickly it would go: Marth's hit out, mine, Marth decides to ledge, you edgehog, end stock. Of course, this is all happening within seconds. A tactic like this is all about mindgames, being able to read your opponent, and then reacting in a split second. After a while, if the Marth player is smart enough and catches on, he'll only recover onto the stage even though he'll be damaged by the mine. In fact, this could backfire on you because if you're expecting him to ledge, but he recovers early, he can hit you as you're jumping out to edgehog him. If you're at high damage, or end up bouncing off of the bottom lip of FD or something, you could be in serious trouble (because we all know how upgraded Marth's third jump got. -.-) What I'm saying is that like all of Snake's techniques, you can't get too repetitive with it, because a smart opponent will adapt, and if you're not expecting that, then your tricks will backfire on you.

Anyway, it sounds nice in theory, but it's no good until it's actually tested out. I'll be sure to do that soon.

 

[Deadly'_']

The only thing i see making this not work is the time that it takes Snake to plant the mine. He might not be able to do both of these things before your opponet gets back to the stage. But if the time isnt an issue then its pretty much perfect.

 

[bman in 2288]

The mine still hurts even if it's uncharged. And planting an uncharged mine isn't that slow. So tsl's idea seem pretty solid. Unless I'm missing some important piece of information that's extremely crucial to pulling this trick off.

 

[Deadly'_']

The mine still hurts even if it's uncharged. And planting an uncharged mine isn't that slow. So tsl's idea seem pretty solid. Unless I'm missing some important piece of information that's extremely crucial to pulling this trick off.

I dont think we are so yeah i like tsl's idea.

 

[Kamaji]

I've been thinking of a new strategy, but I havent tried it yet:

Say we're on battlefield. Do a down smash on the right platform, plant a c4 on the ground a little bit away from the ledge, and then launch nikitas at them until the grab the edge. If they go up, the mine on the platform will blow up. If they roll, blow up the c4. you could also throw an up smash in there. I'll be trying this later. I'll let you guys know how it worked.

Edit: swap the placement of the c4 and mine. It would work better that way.

 

[Deadly'_']

I've been thinking of a new strategy, but I havent tried it yet:

Say we're on battlefield. Do a down smash on the right platform, plant a c4 on the ground a little bit away from the ledge, and then launch nikitas at them until the grab the edge. If they go up, the mine on the platform will blow up. If they roll, blow up the c4. you could also throw an up smash in there. I'll be trying this later. I'll let you guys know how it worked.

Edit: swap the placement of the c4 and mine. It would work better that way.

Hmm... I still like tsl's and my idea better but, this might not work on all characters. Ya see, not all characters have the same height on thier edge jumps. They will also probably be able to double jump before they hit the platform.

I'd say put the mine a lil from the edge and have snake wait on the platfom with a bair ready. If you wanna do it that way.

 

[Kamaji]

meh, my plan works ok, but i find its better to mix it up. use mines, c4, upsmash and bair together in harmony, and they'll have no choice but to die.

 

[Parthenon]

(Generic suggestions about using Snakes explosives to hit the other guys)

GREAT TOPIC

From my experience, using an dsmash on the edge is useless. They'll sweetspot, hit R to roll on stage, and the mine will detonate with no harm done. I spam usmash on pretty much every character because it's a great move. In general, though, there are no all-encompassing edgeguards. This is Brawl, and you are not Melee Marth. You've gotta do what the situation calls for. I dunno how people can make a topic about this kind of stuff. It's like making a topic about hitting another character. Too many options.