Meta Smooth Lander and Heavy Gravity (SLHG)

[biribiri]

So I have just tried it...the power saves file is different from the save data provided by homebrew. I was able to successfully install hacked files by homebrew, and then back up that file using powersaves, but I couldn't transfer it to another Smash cart.

Basically, the file backed up by powersaves is for your cart and your cart ONLY. And as you can't make custom codes through power saves (because that would be a useful feature), there's nothing we can do unless we can convince Datel to add the SLAJ equipment as a specific set of codes.

I will continue doing google fu to see if there's another way, but for now it looks like the powersaves route is a dead end.

Ah, that's a shame. I tried searching online and it looks like it might be possible to transfer saves between carts if they're the same game? If you can upload your powersave file I can see if I load it onto mine, unless you've already tried that.

Edit: Nvm, just reread your post.

 

[SAHunterMech]

Custom. I have the official SLAJ set but I wanted to try some experimenting on my own. The first set is just 3 SL badges with 0 0 0 stats. The second is 1 SL, 1 AJ and 1 Tough Edge badge equaling to 0atk 0def 20-25spd

Okay, so in order to make a piece of equipment with gudenarock's editors (I strongly recommend the older version, as it shows the range values), you have to use this process:

1. Choose your positive integer, I believe it's any number from 10-85.
2. Choose your negative integer, which can be anywhere from 0.5x to 0.75x the positive integer.
3. Using this page, find the corresponding number to the effect you want to put on the equipment. Positive effects have a negative value that gets added to the positive integer. Negative effects have a positive value that gets added to the negative integer.
4. If you're making a badge equippable by all characters, multiply your positive and negative integers by 0.72x, rounded down.
5. Choose your range value. Basically, the higher your positive integer (Use the integer's value from before step 3), the lower the range value. Possible values include every other even and odd number starting from 0, and going to 25 (0, 1, 4, 5, 8, 9, 12, 13, 16, 17, 20, 21, 24, 25).

I also recommend you edit an existing effect badge in your save.

Anyway, if you wanted 3 smooth landers, you could make them all have +32, -32 with a range of 5. As for the tough edge, unfortunately, there isn't a way to get the stats you want, too. Basically, because there's 2 negative effects, you have a huge surplus of stats for the Smooth Lander badge to subtract, and you just can't subtract that much with one badge.

 

[Zef]

this doesnt work online anymore right

 

[TheDerp]

this doesnt work online anymore right

SLAJ Works online, because it's an Equipment build.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

So update on powersaves: I did manage to get oot3Dhax working through it. We can use that to load homebrew even on the latest firmware, and through that you can install the SLAJ save data. It looks a little daunting to do at first but if you read the instructions carefully it's not hard at all. If someone wants I could try to help them out after I get home from work.

You can also roll back to an earlier firmware with homebrew but I haven't tested that out yet.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

That's already known, the problem is that it costs 60$ or more to get both OoT3D and Powersaves if you don't own either already, which is a lot of money just for SLAJ.

 

[Leebee]

fingers crossed on the rollback then~

 

[KeithTheGeek]

That's already known, the problem is that it costs 60$ or more to get both OoT3D and Powersaves if you don't own either already, which is a lot of money just for SLAJ.

But it is an option, and right now the only viable one if you don't have access to a system on older firmware. Unless you want to spend just as much money buying a refurbished 2DS.

fingers crossed on the rollback then~

The rollback requires you to have access to hax. Which means, in the case of players on 10.6, you need to have Cubic Ninja or OoT3D. Or Smash Bros for N3DS users.

 

[BlueFury]

Ok so...the question that has been going through my mind about slaj, since there wasn't really any more clarification about it at the moment but are the combos similar to slhg or are they a cut above it? I know it's kind of early to ask since I'm sure you guys are testing things out and what not but let me know I'm just curious about the growth from slhg to slaj.

 

[SAHunterMech]

I would say they're about 15% easier to perform, that's about it. I don't think there's anything new per se.

 

[Bombar]

Is it still not possible to get slaj on WiiU without a 3ds? Will it ever be possible? Don't really know too much about homebrew shenanigans so pardon my ignorance.

 

[SAHunterMech]

Currently no, but Wii U hacking is making slow yet steady progress. There probably isn't going to be anything for a while, but you never know...

 

[Bombar]

Currently no, but Wii U hacking is making slow yet steady progress. There probably isn't going to be anything for a while, but you never know...

Alright thanks for the info

 

[epicnights]

I don't know about anybody else, but I know that the original thing that caught my interest was that I could do SLHG without any external tools. I'm glad you guys have found what you wanted in SLAJ, but I guess this isn't for me anymore.

 

[BlueFury]

I would say they're about 15% easier to perform, that's about it. I don't think there's anything new per se.

Ok I see still sounds like a upgrade for the most part, I hope to see more of this and maybe more 1v1's with you all who have slaj.

I don't know about anybody else, but I know that the original thing that caught my interest was that I could do SLHG without any external tools. I'm glad you guys have found what you wanted in SLAJ, but I guess this isn't for me anymore.

I know how you feel our little niche kinda shorten because of slaj being that not everyone has access to a 3ds (including myself and a few others) but we still support both and I still play slhg, in fact played yesterday with my bro still had a blast.

 

[GuardianGallade]

Alright, so I've been kinda lurking this thread for the past month or so, and I figured I might as well make my presence known. I have the +1/-3/+22 setup from the page 38 kit, and have only been able to play against computers - my friends play way more Melee and didn't want to bother with all this extra work on their 3DS even before powersaves became necessary, and I don't get a lot of opportunities to interact with the Smash 4 scene in my area. Despite that, even only playing computers, SLAJ has become my favorite way to play 4. I REALLY don't want to see this thing die.

That being said, I obviously don't need to explain why the latest update deals SLAJ a pretty devastating blow, you guys get it. We just REALLY need to figure out a solution. Requiring external equipment, especially as expensive as powersaves, is a crazy barrier to entry that we need to knock down. Could someone more knowledgeable than me list out all the POTENTIAL options we have for getting this equipment onto a 3DS, online-safe, without other equipment? If we don't figure something out, the chances of the community growing go from decent to laughably slim.

On the note of community-building, I have Wii U with the aforementioned +1/-3/+22 build on it, as well as a capture card. I've been looking for something unique to make videos about for my YouTube channel, and I'm probably going to make some about this. Before I do, I feel like we need a better name than SLAJ, for PR purposes. "Smooth Gravity" is inaccurate now that we've ditched HG, and the only other suggestion I've seen is "Smooth Smash", which works, but doesn't sound good IMO. I'd love to hear what other people can come up with, but I've thought of a name that I really like: Project Lander, AKA Project L. Based off of the Lander in Smooth Lander, it sounds cool and plays off of the popularity of Project M - especially right now, with it being a hot topic in the community. What we're doing here is also pretty similar to PM. No, we aren't trying to take Smash 4 and turn it back into Melee, but we are making it faster and slightly more balanced. I could also totally make artwork of Project M and Project L that somehow ties in to Mario and Luigi, which would be funny - and, again, boost popularity.

TL;DR, I love SLAJ and don't want it to die, I need someone to list every option we potentially have for getting SLAJ to not require external equipment, and until someone comes up with a better name, I'm referring to this thing as Project L.

 

[Halifax?]

Smooth Lander, Anchor Jump, Hard Breaker? I can't hack, so guess I'll be grinding equipment for a while

be back in a couple months

 

[Leebee]

we've already tested, hard breaker doesn't achieve the effect you'd think it would. it's only affecting the dash part when you're already outside of trotting, so you can't dash dance really.

 

[Halifax?]

Makes life easier.

Also since we dropped Moon launcher, is vertical launch nerfed? I want to compare SLAJ and Melee vertical launch when I get setup.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Makes life easier.

Also since we dropped Moon launcher, is vertical launch nerfed? I want to compare SLAJ and Melee vertical launch when I get setup.

Moon Launcher really only made moves kill 7% earlier than without moon launcher.

 

[BlueFury]

uh oh this looks promising =)

 

[SAHunterMech]

Too bad it doesn't change how sucky the combo game is. Also, it looks even more tedious and frustrating to learn than melee tech; really, if more people would just give SLAJ a go...

 

[Halifax?]

This is more of a neutral movement option thing than a punish optimization thing.

BUT

Frame perfect pivots attacks and frame perfect SHFF aerials will be safer on shield, and potentially tighten up certain strings into actual combos.

 

[SAHunterMech]

Frame perfect this, frame perfect that... Assuming this doesn't get patched out, it just sounds like a chore. It also seems too inconsistent for tourney-level play. I'm amazed that the community is willing to go those lengths when SLAJ/SLHG is infinitely more accessible, providing the offensive play everyone is so obviously craving.

I really wish we could get a smash game down the line with intentionally designed advanced mechanics that are intuitive and don't cause permanent damage to one's hands. Really, Nintendo would be the best at that, if they ever started to give a **** about it...

I'm just glad more and more fighting games are easing up on frame perfect stuff now-a-days; heh, it's almost like (post-melee) smash and street fighter are going to meet in the middle in terms of input difficulty.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

The point of this tech is that it makes several frame-perfect techs easier to perform for the common man, at the expense of having to use an unorthodox control scheme.

Really, the main thing is that you'll have to fight muscle memory and possibly loss out on some things the standard controls do better (like retreating aerials).

I'm interested to see where it goes, in any case. Not convinced it'll be meta-defining but it could lead to some interesting results...especially when mixed with SLAJ.

 

[Halifax?]

As it stands, SLAJ is definitely not more accessible. Bidou you can go change your controls in the game and start practicing. SLHG is a broken mode, and SLAJ takes modding OR a lot of farming (which someone like me is willing to go through, but 99% of people aren't).

SLAJ does speed up the game which is fantastic. But one thing it can't fix are the horizontal launch angle of moves in Smash 4 vs. the same moves that typically launch vertically in Melee. So with SLAJ there is a tiny minority of more moves that you can implement in combos, typically as finishers. For example, in the SLAJ montage combo video how the Falcon was able to finish a combo with D-smash was ****in sick.

Another thing SLAJ doesn't fix is that airdodging out of hitstun is still a thing, just nerfed since brawl. It's true that airdodges are nerfed in SLAJ, but they can still be used to break combos like in vanilla Smash 4.

I'm with you, I hope the future of fighting games brings better smash clones. A Melee HD that fixed everything broken would satisfy the hardcore crowd. A more casual smash game that focused less on input mastery, but doesn't stray from the golden melee formula (could be slightly slower but not much). At least that's what I wanted out of Nintendo the past few years. Instead we still have broken Melee and Brawl 2.0.

/rant

But yeah I'm gonna start farming equipment during summer so hopefully I can get in on the SLAJ action

 

[SAHunterMech]

There's like, a 1% chance that Melee HD will be the rumored Nintendo NX Smash game, but really, it's way more likely to be Sm4sh with all the DLC. Even then, it's still crazy unlikely.

What I'm really hoping for is that hacking will open up. We're already at the point where codes can be implemented, so it's only a matter of time before full-conversion hacks can be made.

 

[BlueFury]

Yea it is a little tedious as far as the control set up but as @KeithTheGeek said it does seem somewhat promising but yea it's not meta game ground breaking or anything like that. I just thought it was kind of interesting this was shown after the patch.

From what I gathered it was discovered quite a while ago but wasn't pushed because of fear it might be patched. Either way I was just wondering what it would look like under SLAJ/SLHG.

I agree if the game was built from the ground up to satisfy all players from casual to hardcore than we wouldn't have this issue of trying to please the people it doesn't satisfy. And yea @SAHunterMech I agree the (true) combo game is lacking in vanilla 4 and SLAJ/SLHG does help substantially.

I can give four reasons why SLAJ/SLHG isn't as big as it should be:

1. People just aren't aware of this mode entirely.
2. "You guys are trying to remake Melee" argument, which isn’t true obviously... (Narrow-minded mindset)
3. "You guys are trying to replace Vanilla Smash 4" again not true but still many believe so...
4. They are afraid they won't be as good in this mode as they are in vanilla because the bar is raised quite a bit.

Regardless I still hope SLAJ/SLHG grows nonetheless it definitely should be a thing and broadcast at tournaments.

 

[SAHunterMech]

This Bidou thing could very well be quite useful, but I never get too attached to advanced tech like that, just because it could get patched out of existence. It sounds a little harsh, but the competitive community is basically doing some thorough bug-testing.

Really though, are we not trying to replace regular smash 4? There are very, very few things that SLAJ is lacking compared to vanilla smash. I think of it less as a different mode and more as an advanced mode, with more capabilities. My only real issues right now are that certain recoveries (Link, Samus) are still nerfed considerably, and gimps might be too effective, but I would gladly take those flaws over flaws like having way too much landing lag, or combos being insanely limited.

As well, everyone is obviously craving more offensive play like combos; why else would they push this new bidou tech? Really, what's a fighting game without, well, good fighting? Every tech is being studied in the hope that it will make the game more offensively viable, but... It's really just the game itself, the vanilla game mode that's the issue.

 

[Halifax?]

The thing is SLAJ isn't a direct upgrade to vanilla.

You're using Melee physics with Smash 4 character balance, Smash 4 knockback angles, Smash 4 ledge mechanics, etc. Nothing in SLAJ looks broken right now because the only players uploading their matches to YouTube aren't high level players. Also, Smash 4 knockback angles aren't cohesive with Melee's gravity and fall speed. In Melee moves send more vertical because higher gravity means the enemy won't stay in the air long enough. In Smash 4, lower gravity and fall speed means characters stay in the air too long, so knockback angles are more horizontal. When you use Melee physics and don't adjust for Melee knockback angles, what you get is combos lasting longer using the same old Utilt, Uair. And as has been stated in this thread before, the speed boost from equipment helps a little. But you still don't get Melee's diversity of combos that utilize a wide range of moves. Does SLAJ provide more depth and complexity to the punish game? SLAJ does give more characters kill confirms than just the top tiers. SLAJ does have faster movement. But you're still pretty much using the same moves in the same way you'd use them in vanilla. You can just chain a little more. And so you use 3 or 4 stock instead of 2.

I personally consider SLAJ's nerf to defensive options a definite upgrade to vanilla. The attack vs. shield vs. grab triangle should always favor attacking slightly more because it's the most interesting part of the game. Now maybe some characters with long perfect pivots and Bidou can chain perfect pivots as their primary method of transport. Or if whatever primary movement technique using Bidou allows characters access to their whole grounded moveset while on the move, that'd definitely add depth and complexity. Grab is still really strong though. And there's not much depth or complexity to flowchart throw combos.

 

[SAHunterMech]

I think the fallspeed for some characters might be faster than even that of melee...

Anyway, I guess it's the same old story. Until we can hack, it will never be as good as we want it to be. Still, what are your (or anyone's) thoughts on Link/Samus' recoveries and gimping?

 

[BlueFury]

Really though, are we not trying to replace regular smash 4? There are very, very few things that SLAJ is lacking compared to vanilla smash. I think of it less as a different mode and more as an advanced mode, with more capabilities.

As well, everyone is obviously craving more offensive play like combos; why else would they push this new bidou tech? Really, what's a fighting game without, well, good fighting? Every tech is being studied in the hope that it will make the game more offensively viable, but... It's really just the game itself, the vanilla game mode that's the issue.

Point made but honestly reason 3 & 4 were nonetheless general statements that I'm sure we all have heard or seen around the smash community, youtube, etc.

We all know a game can't grow without change that's why people add to the meta with different strategies and/or techs, so in a sense your correct we are trying to replace smash 4 but the changes we are implementing are within the game.

So the real underlying question is why is some of the community oppose to something that is technically still "Smash 4"?
For the most part people are afraid of change that's sort of a universal law...sort of lol but yea I guess your right back to the same old story until something gives way.

edit:

SAHunterMech
I think your prayers have been answered thanks to a guy named ts4m (his channel is in the description).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM1lcf6669s

 

[SAHunterMech]

I feel like the old 2-stock, 6 minute no customs setup for 4 is just out of habit, because of melee tournies using the same basic principles for competitive play for so many years, and everyone is scared to go outside of that, even just a little.

Anyway, this is CRAZY. Can't wait until it's accessible enough for hacker scrubs like me.

 

[GuardianGallade]

Sooooo, my post got a couple likes and then was completely ignored. Do people like the name of Project Lander? And how can we make this more accessible? We can argue all we want about what keeps people from WANTING to try SLAJ, but we need a way for the people who already want to try the game to be able to do so without a monetary investment.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Sooooo, my post got a couple likes and then was completely ignored. Do people like the name of Project Lander? And how can we make this more accessible? We can argue all we want about what keeps people from WANTING to try SLAJ, but we need a way for the people who already want to try the game to be able to do so without a monetary investment.

Project Lander... I dunno I think people would get the idea that we're trying to be a "Project M" of sorts and we really aren't.

Accessibility wise we just need patience and to wait for another 3DS exploit.

 

[ZADD]

I dont call it anything, I just say its Smash 4 with a perfect Smooth Lander loadout.

People respond better when you act more humble about it. The more you try to brand it, the more people take it as competition to classic Melee and Vanilla, that's why most players are quick to reject it. (they feel threatened)

Iv taken it to my local scene and had a really positive response. Maybe not with words or a stellar 1st impression, but after a while, even the most vocal haters eventually sat down and gave it a shot.

This isn't going to overtake Vanilla or Melee, until it does... But players need to see this as it is, an experimental ruleset.

If you portray it as experimental, it's easier for players to embrace it. That's how Project M got its humble beginnings, before VGBC helped PM explode in popularity...

 

[GuardianGallade]

Project Lander... I dunno I think people would get the idea that we're trying to be a "Project M" of sorts and we really aren't.

Accessibility wise we just need patience and to wait for another 3DS exploit.

I dont call it anything, I just say its Smash 4 with a perfect Smooth Lander loadout.

People respond better when you act more humble about it. The more you try to brand it, the more people take it as competition to classic Melee and Vanilla, that's why most players are quick to reject it. (they feel threatened)

Iv taken it to my local scene and had a really positive response. Maybe not with words or a stellar 1st impression, but after a while, even the most vocal haters eventually sat down and gave it a shot.

This isn't going to overtake Vanilla or Melee, until it does... But players need to see this as it is, an experimental ruleset.

If you portray it as experimental, it's easier for players to embrace it. That's how Project M got its humble beginnings, before VGBC helped PM explode in popularity...

I get what you guys are saying, and I guess for a more low-key one-on-one introduction it really doesn't need a name, but it's going to spread a lot faster if we take advantage of the internet to publicize it a *little* more. And if we do start, say, making videos about it, we need to call it something. I do agree that my original suggestion could easily be taken the wrong way, but the names we have are either misnomers or just don't sound good. That's why I asked for other people's input. It's not rocket science, it just makes sense to have a good, accurate name for this... equipment... setup... thing. I'm not even sure how to describe it, sometimes. As for the 3DS exploits, I know we need another way in, and I know it's going to take some time. But I'm not even sure where to go to find these exploits, or talk to the people who are looking for them. If that's just my ignorance and everyone knows exactly who's at the head of the 3DS hacking community, I apologize. Enlighten me. If not, it's going to be beneficial for everybody to know where to look for new homebrew sources.

On a less overbearing note (and I am sorry if I come across as harsh, I'm just trying to make my point clear), a couple of my friends tried this setup on my Wii U the other day - one plays mostly Melee, the other plays mostly 4. They both really liked it. So that's cool!

 

[Aunt Jemima]

3DS and (hopefully) Wii U exploits is literally the only way to get the equipment, there's never gonna be another way to get it for free, lol.

SLAJ is a fine name.

 

[GuardianGallade]

Aight fine, I'll stop nitpicking about the name. But I really do hope another exploit is found, because I don't see SLAJ expanding much more if there's that big of a barrier to entry. I might be able to spark some more interest around me since I can set it up, but until another free method is found, the SLAJ community is going to be limited those of us who already got the equipment and about two people who buy/already have power saves

 

[Leebee]

if you don't feel SLAJ works, just call it Smash 4 Turbo. one extra word, simple...etc.

I agree when(if) the next browser exploit is found, a concerted and organized post complete with a concise, narrated video detailing SLAJ would go a long way.

like this:

• SLAJ?
  • Not a replacement for Vanilla, just another way to play the game that's slightly faster!
  • No modding necessary
  • Breathes new life into stale members of the cast
  • More offensive, faster, smoother, more combos
  • Playable online!
• Why this equipment?
  • Smooth Lander
    • Cuts aerial move landing lag by 30%
    • Makes approach safer, more offensive
    • Helps lower-tier characters with high landing lag more than higher-tier characters
  • Anchor Jump
    • Increases fall speed by 40%
    • Partially counteracts Smash 4's natural high base-knockback, thus increasing ability to combo/follow up at every %
    • You're in danger at lower %s due to stricter recovery, also makes offstage play more effective at KOing
    • Greater rewards for being on the offense: many moves now create tech chase scenarios and aerial juggling is more dangerous for defenders since they're more likely to land while air-dodging and incur landing lag
  • Super Final Smasher
    • No functional effect, only added to balance stats
  • Final stats are +23/0/0
    • 23 speed counteracts increased falling speed so characters still have powerful jumps for recovery
    • Increased movement speed allows greater combo ability horizontally
    • Increased movement speed allows greater positioning and stage play
  • Important to note the SLAJ team tested many configurations thoroughly, and this is the most fun/balanced set without having to mod anything
• Easy to join in on the fun!
  • Links to starter kit, discord, contacts...etc.
• Ending hype montage?

something like this? provide side-by-side examples for each of the bullet points and just keep things short & sweet. then just ship this post and video off to smash reddit, another topic here on smashboards, shoryuken, eventhubs, wherever else you want it. new players can then forward the video or post onto their local TOs to join in.

I think the main thing in a push for SLAJ is that it can't ONLY be a hype montage because it doesn't tell anyone anything.