SmashCAP 4: Primary Ability Discussion

[Terywj [태리]]

[SmashCAP 4]
Start date: 8/1/10
End date: --/--/--
Concept: Sunnyside Up
Type: Grass / Dragon

Concept: Sunnyside Up
Analysis: Face it. Sunny Day sucks in the OU metagame. Sandstorm has Tyranitar, and benefits a bunch of appropriate Pokemon. Hail has Abomasnow and to a lesser extent Walrein, Froslass, and Mamoswine. Rain became a dominant force by Kingdra itself, and not only that but there are more viable sweepers under the Rain such as Kabutops and Ludicolo, etc. The problem with Sunny Day is that the benefits are just too wrongly distributed. Grass-types who through Cholorphyll benefit the most from Sunny Day and Solarbeam are absolutely murdered by the 50% boost in Fire-type attacks. The Fire-type Pokemon who enjoy the said boost will also gain a 50% resistance to Water-type attacks, but lack the Speed increase. How could we craft such a Pokemon so that it gains the benefits of Sunny Day, while keeping it viable in the metagame?
Extra: Taking note, this is basically a "Kingdra in the Sun" concept. A Pokemon who through typing, ability, and stats would be able to fully abuse the weather and benefits of Sunny Day.

Discuss the primary ability you would like to see SmashCAP 4 have here. Substance is required in your post. Any idea you have should be well thought-out and explained in proper detail. Mention the benefits of such a ability, drawbacks, etc. Drawbacks could and can be reconsidered when we bring up secondary abilities later on in the next stage.
I understand that Chlorophyll would be a main and more popular choice, but I didn't want to jump the gun and keep everything open for suggestions.

Also keep in mind we cannot make custom abilities at this point.

All global forum rules apply. Happy brainstorming!

 

[Wave⁂]

How about we limit this thread to non-Chlorophyll ideas?

 

[JOE!]

what abilities benifit from Sunny Day first off?

 

[Fuelbi]

We can give it Flower Gift

I'm sure it'll benefit the boost in Attack and Defense

Or we can give it Solar Power, if we can make it resilient enough to the lose of HP each turn that it won't matter that it's losing health to raise its SpA

 

[Wave⁂]

Solar Power raises SpAtk 50%
Flower Gift raises Atk and SpDef 50% each
Leaf Guard blocks status
Drought is Drought

 

[Fuelbi]

Solar Power raises SpAtk 50%
Flower Gift raises Atk and SpDef 50% each
Leaf Guard blocks status
Drought is Drought

Doesn't Leaf Guard work regardless of whether Sunny Day is in play?

And I thought we were trying to come up with abilities that benefit this pokemon. Drought doesn't necessarily benefit it. It just creates the condition, something a buttload of pokem hmmm.... looks like only Groudon has Drought.


Well, we can always just come up with a lead that knows Sunny Day.

Or you guys can just buff one of them NU pokes and make them OU+ so that it can function finely in conjunction with CAP4

 

[UltiMario]

Find a way to fix Sunny Day without giving is Drought, I dare all of you.

Why? Because you can't.

 

[Fuelbi]

Find a way to fix Sunny Day without giving is Drought, I dare all of you.

Why? Because you can't.

He's right you know

We really can't do **** without giving Drought

 

[Wave⁂]

Find a way to fix Sunny Day without giving is Drought, I dare all of you.

Why? Because you can't.

1. We're not trying to fix Sunny Day.
2. Base 200 SpAtk, base 200 Speed, done

 

[JOE!]

We *may* need to come up with a custom ability to fix this one...

as the other weather conditions simply have alot more abilities that open up much more options than sunny day...

 

[Circa]

We *may* need to come up with a custom ability to fix this one...

as the other weather conditions simply have alot more abilities that open up much more options than sunny day...

The problem sits in the fact that we can't give it a custom ability. We don't know how to program it into PO.

 

[kirbyraeg]

This has gotta have Chlorophyll.

It isn't a sweeper if it doesn't have that. :/

Besides, physically biased Chlorophyll sweepers like Tangrowth are loads of fun, think like that but with a Dragon Stab to work with and probably not as good of SpAtk but with Fire Blast as a coverage option.

Any other sun ability is secondary to that unless we're making this a faster pokemon, but I think something like this sitting on the base 70-75 speed mark would be perfect for what we're trying to make here.

 

[mood4food77]

chlorophyll or flower gift

 

[Circa]

I'd like to see a Pokemon with Solar Power that actually isn't useless.

Imagine triple STAB in DM, Energy Ball/Solar Beam (Solar Beam only if you're willing to deal with the consequences of a likely Tyranitar switch-in), and Fire Blast all getting an equivalent to a non-choice Choice Specs just at the cost of 1/16 of your health (I'd imagine you'd run lefties), and tell me that it wouldn't be painful as all get-out. Of course, it'll probably have to be fast if we go this route. And need Earth Power/EQ...

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Doesn't Solar Power also damage you per turn? If you ran Leftovers you'd be receiving neutral health gain under the Sun, and as I am typing this I realize that Circa basically said everything I'm trying to say.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Solar Power costs 1/8 of your health per turn IIRC.

Yup it does

 

[Circa]

Doesn't Solar Power also damage you per turn? If you ran Leftovers you'd be receiving neutral health gain under the Sun, and as I am typing this I realize that Circa basically said everything I'm trying to say.

Solar Power damages you for 1/8 of your health each turn. :\ I wish it was only 1/16, as like you said, you could just run Lefties and go neutral all the time.

Or you could even kinda validate LO then (think about how often you've run LO Starmie, which doesn't like the ever-so-present SS). If you gave it Focus Blast for the filler slot you could even 2HKO Blissey when in the sun. And you'd KO Heatran and Tyranitar too. Hell, this thing would be a walking bag of destruction with the sunlight up.

**** Tyranitar.

EDIT: Holy **** I didn't see that ninja. GG kirbyraeg.

 

[Fuelbi]

And doesn't leftovers recover like 1/16 of your health?

Well, that's a negligible 1/16 that you're losing unless there's hail or something...

EDIT:

****, ninja'd

 

[Circa]

And doesn't leftovers recover like 1/16 of your health?

Well, that's a negligible 1/16 that you're losing unless there's hail or something...

EDIT:

****, ninja'd

Well under Hail or SS you'd actually just even out, as they do 1/16 and you're no longer under the sun for the Solar Power effect to be damaging you.

The set is pretty much an immediate threat, to say the least. It's obvious when you have it, and the game suddenly turns into a prediction fest for not getting something completely obliterated. Granted, it'd probably be easier to just cut your loss and let something die.

And it'd basically be required to revenge kill the thing. I'd predict a boost in Jirachi, Weavile, and Mamo (or at least I'd hope for a boost in those three...) if we did this and it worked out. And Tyranitar, obviously (RUN 120 BASE SPEED AND HE'S NOT, YAY). Not like he needs a boost at all.

 

[Wave⁂]

So, to make this thing usable, we have a couple options:

Chlorophyll + high SpAtk stat
Solar Power or Flower Gift + high Speed stat

 

[Circa]

Or we could give it Chlorophyll and Solar Power/Flower Gift and give it a high Speed AND high Attack/Special Attack stat (I've been using Roserade for my damage calcs, if it tells you anything...I found it works pretty well to show the potential of how well this can just overtake most things with Solar Power activated).

But then it would probably have to be really frail to make up for it. Not like that matters though, I guess. Just have a suicidal set-up guy.

EDIT: Yay 2000.

 

[Wave⁂]

Solar Power vs. Flower Gift.

Discuss.

 

[Fuelbi]

Well, Flower Gift powers up two stats at no consequence while Solar Power powers up SpA while you lose health for it

I like Flower Gift better

 

[Wave⁂]

Flower Gift forces you to use Leaf Blade or Power Whip. You can't use Dragon Pulse, you have to use Dragon Claw now. Also, physical Fire-type attacks?

 

[mood4food77]

how does flower gift force you to use leaf blade or power whip?

i thought it gives the poke a secondary form while boosting it's stats, so if we gave it a secondary form under sunlight, it could use all those moves

although i have to second no to physical fire-type attacks

 

[Fuelbi]

Flower Gift forces you to use Leaf Blade or Power Whip. You can't use Dragon Pulse, you have to use Dragon Claw now. Also, physical Fire-type attacks?

That's not what bulbapedia says

 

[Wave⁂]

Okay, use Solarbeam with an ability that boosts your Attack, that makes perfect ****ing sense.

 

[kirbyraeg]

It could be a mixed attacker?

Either way flower gift is a crappy ability for it to have, it's very unoptimized. When we can customize everything about this Pokemon that we want to, it seems counterintuitive to do something like that.

 

[Circa]

Yeah, basically.

You should already know that I vote Solar Power. I just don't like the idea of using Flower Gift. It sits wrong with me for some reason.

 

[UltiMario]

Flower gift has stupid programming in PO and I'm extremely against it just in case we get another Zook incident.

 

[mood4food77]

if that's the case

flower gift is not an option

 

[UltiMario]

It IS an option.

It's just that it really has to be a unanimous, CERTAIN decision, and preferably the ONLY ability if it's chosen.

I don't want to spend hours figuring it out for it to be disliked or overshadowed by another ability, it's simply not worth my time if nobody is going to use it.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'm also against Flower Gift in the fact that it requires more sprites to be made. And we all know how well we get done with spriting on SmashCAPs.

I still fully support Solar Power or Chlorophyll.

 

[ss118]

I know this isn't the place to discuss this yet, but I think we should really take the chance here and use this pokemon to make ourselves our first glass cannon. Give it both Solar Power + Chlorophyll with insanely high speed and good spa to use it off of.

Just a thought. All three of our previous ones have been bulky so far so this would be different, to say at the least.

 

[UltiMario]

Hello Ice Shard Sharpedo usage, I didn't notice you with this new CAP running around.

 

[ss118]

Like it can switch in. And that was one of many reasons why I wanted this to be Grass/ Fire.

 

[UltiMario]

Like it needs to switch in. Sharpedo can tear apart Sun teams with Fake Out, Aqua Jet/Earthquake and Ice Shard, all it needs is to plain get in, which isn't hard on the revenge.

 

[Circa]

Like it needs to switch in. Sharpedo can tear apart Sun teams with Fake Out, Aqua Jet/Earthquake and Ice Shard, all it needs is to plain get in, which isn't hard on the revenge.

And this comes back to the part about Sun teams needing more outside support than your other weather teams.

Granted, it wouldn't really need as much support anymore if this was run in a standard OU metagame. Just pointing that out. The whole Sharpedo thing pretty much ruins any hopes of making anything valid with Sunny Day, the exception maybe being if you play Scarf Rotom just right to keep Sharpedo at bay (while also hoping to god Tyranitar isn't on the opposing team...even though it probably will be). Or use Tangrowth in the late-game.

Gyarados support can help too. God **** me for remembering Sunday, Bloody Sunday every time someone mentions Sunny Day.

 

[UltiMario]

After SmashCAP 4 is done I will purposely spam teams with Sharpedo and TTar just to piss everyone off, forever.

I promise.

 

[CRASHiC]

Give it Drought otherwise this idea will never work.